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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?

  • YES

    Votes: 48 16.4%

  • NO

    Votes: 148 50.5%

  • I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BEFORE

    Votes: 62 21.2%

  • OTHER

    Votes: 35 11.9%
  • Total voters
    293
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Previous quote of CandiCame:
You wouldn't be willing to prove that you're reading objectively- I've said I would three times and you've not said it once- because you know this to be true. Because this isn't a book to you, it's part of your identity. And if it turns out to be a collection of legends that were canonized in the 15th century from several dissperant sources and not a cohesive, true history of god's chosen people, it will mean that you built part of your identity on a lie.
Click to expand...

I never claimed I was reading the bible objectively. I don't think you are either. Does one have to prove they are worthy of reading the bible correctly.? Does it mean you have to have a shitty childhood to be able to read the bible? Do you have to turn away from it to be believed?

You were beat..... I am sorry that happened. I had a lot of violence in my home. Mom actually knocked Dad around because he would never defend himself because she was a woman. Woke up one night just in enough time to stop her from stabbing him. Had inappropriate things done by another family member for years until he got so drunk he finished the deed. Who wins? No one -because both suck.

It wasn't until I defined for myself who God is that it made a difference. Laugh, but I say He is love. Only if you define him as hate will you find what you do.:rose:
 
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Tryharder62 said:
I am responding to your larger post, a few back, but didn't quote it. I am equally frustrated. I give you evidence from the scriptures, in context, and historically applicable, and you give me...." you don't know how to read right." I give you quotes from scholars who do nothing but study this and you respond....." I know how to read right, you don't."

I tried to learn how to crochet. My grandmother made beautiful things. My first thing was a scarf. I couldn't figure out how to end a row and my scarf got thinner and thinner.

Ah, I listened to your song. Made me thing of one. ;):D:rose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26nJjNDsbmk
Click to expand...

Wow. I can read AND crochet better than you. Maybe you ought to reach a point where you either stop talking about how much better I am at stuff OR you stop arguing with me. I can tell you how to fix that to- and I bet you'll listen because you're not using crocheting as a crutch for your own emotional issues and don't see it as part of your self-identity.

Make your first project a double-crochet scarf in a light color like white or a pastel. Use chunky sized yard in acrylic, and a big ass needle, like a 10 or higher. Chain a certain number of stitches, won't have to be much because the yarn and hook are so big. Make it an easy to remember number, like 10 or 15. Now, as you're working across your rows, count. Don't depend on counting your stitches later, count in your head as you go. At the end of every row, before you turn, write that number down and compare it to what you're supposed to have, then, go back and count along the top, the little Vs. Compare that to the number you wrote down. They should be the same. Chain three, turn your row, and count the chain as a stitch. Then, make your first double crochet into the SECOND V, not the first one. When you get to the end of that row, make sure you're still at 15 counting the chain- if you're not, if you're at 14, which I suspect is your problem, pull that last stitch out and double crochet into the loop there. There won't be a V there, because it's the chain from where you started that row, not a stitch. That'll give you 15. That'll give you an even row.

It might take two or three of these scarves, but you'll eventually start counting in your head without having to think about it. It'll become instinctual, become background.

I've taught a couple of crochet classes and this is a problem that a LOT of beginners have. You have to master beginner stitches and this art of doing the simple math in your head before you can move on to patterns. You have to get the basics first or all your projects can be wonky.

I started crocheting because I wanted to do arigami, which isn't lace hard but it's still black magic, as I mentioned before. I was trying to do 7th year spells when I had just gotten off the train to Hogwarts. You can't do that, you HAVE to master the basics first.

Here's the thing, I mentioned before that I did study the bible, that I'm certified to teach it. You're giving me links to people who have less credentials than me, who have an agenda that they are trying to defend, and who do not "do nothing but study this". Several of the people you linked have books that they're trying to sell, to fit the agenda that they're trying to shove. They're NOT reputable sources and are not considered reputable by ACTUAL biblical scholars. They're laypeople who are coming in, who BRAG about being self-taught. They're PREACHERS who BELIEVE the bible is a thing that needs to be applicable to their real life- who are making a living by twisting the word of god for fun and profit. These are the people that Jesus would have flipped the table on during their book signing. If you think that this shit is real, you should be ACTIVELY ANGRY at those people. You have to be objective, and you have to prove to a review board of your peers that you can be objective.

Tryharder62 said:
Previous quote of CandiCame:


I never claimed I was reading the bible objectively. I don't think you are either. Does one have to prove they are worthy of reading the bible correctly.? Does it mean you have to have a shitty childhood to be able to read the bible? Do you have to turn away from it to be believed?

You were beat..... I am sorry that happened. I had a lot of violence in my home. Mom actually knocked Dad around because he would never defend himself because she was a woman. Woke up one night just in enough time to stop her from stabbing him. Had inappropriate things done by another family member for years until he got so drunk he finished the deed. Who wins? No one -because both suck.

It wasn't until I defined for myself who God is that it made a difference. Laugh, but I say He is love. Only if you define him as hate will you find what you do.:rose:
Click to expand...

Yes, you have to prove that you can study a text objectively to be able to speak on it. 3000%, the answer to this is YES. You have to be able to do that, and you have to be able to PROVE that you can do that. You cannot come in with a preconceived agenda or preconceived lens and twist a text to fit that agenda.

I bring up my abuse BECAUSE it has the potential to make me subjective, because I have a lens that I COULD use to twist those words- and arrive at the conclusion you have. If I wanted a god that cared about me, I would have to find some way to make my experience fit within a framework that would 1: tell me that my father's behavior was somehow sinful, 2: That a god would disprove of it, and 3: Give me comfort over the idea that he would be punished for it. Were I reading it with that mindset, I would not be objective.

But objectively, that's not true. Objectively, my father could have had me publicly executed, not just beat the shit out of me. In my specific situation, the first time I told him to go fuck himself, I had broken one of god's commandments- this is honestly to be expected, since god regards me as a punishment TO my father for fucking out of wedlock, as I already explained, a constant reminder of his sin, and those of us who were born sins are probably gonna be the shittiest kids possible to raise, whatwith us being hellspawn and whatnot, and were, in the past, usually killed as kids to avoid the lifetime of bullshit and the embarrassment to our parents. The bible actually says to abort us, as I pointed out in the abortion thread, which is one of the reasons it's weird to me that Christians claim god is prolife, when he actively explains how to perform an abortion for a child conceived by anyone other than the woman's husband.

My point is, if I had come in with an agenda meant to prove that I wasn't born a sin and didn't deserve the abuse I got, I would have to do the same mental gymnastics that you're doing. But that's actually really difficult to do, because objectively, the text doesn't say that. It says that I deserve WORSE that I got, that I shouldn't have been allowed to make it to adulthood.

Interestingly, it also predicts that such children will grow up to be drunks, and... that was pretty spot on for a long time, but also like... if people have shitty childhoods they tend to grow up with substance abuse problems, so... yeah, anybody can predict 6:00 at 5:30. John fucking Edwards could have predicted that.

If you're insisting that a text is true, and you want people to believe you, then yes, you have to prove that it's true. You can't say, "I believe it" and expect others to go, "Well that must be the case then. We'll throw out all the historical evidence we have that says that this is a collection of records canonized in the 15th century. This random person has a belief structure! All the scholars go home, we've got this figured out now! Good luck in your next endeavors, I'll write a glowing recommendation, but your services are no longer needed, we know for a fact this is true now! Let's just go ahead and burn all those second-tier canon texts, they're taking up a lot of space in the Vatican and we no longer need them, we've been looking for somewhere to put a tea room anyhow!"

I can read objectively IN SPITE OF my past, not because of it. That's what I was trying to explain. Subjectivity caused by personal experience is called, "The experience over evidence" fallacy. You HAVE to prove that you can overcome that to be objective and believable. If something is true, it will be true whether you personally experienced it or not.

I've smoked for almost a decade and a half, and I don't have lung cancer. I don't even really have any health problems associated with smoking- my blood pressure is LOW, not high, and my cardiovascular system is in tip-top shape. I could easily say, "I don't believe smoking is bad for me." People make this particular fallacy all the time, using their personal experience as evidence.

Do you know what would happen if I said that? Do you think that objective reality would change, and smoking would no longer be dangerous? Hopefully you don't think that, because that would make you a fucking idiot. Every time I buy a pack of cigarettes, I look at it, and it says, "If you smoke this, you'll die a slow painful death".

When I look at the bible, it says, "If you don't beat your kids, they'll grow up to be sinners and go to hell."

What you're doing is saying that I'm lying about cigarettes being dangerous because I didn't type the exact word-for-word warning label, but even if I do- in fact, let me go get a pack, I need a fucking cigarette.

What is happening here, is even if I do type out, "SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Tobacco Smoke Increases The Risk Of Lung Cancer And Heart Disease, Even In Nonsmokers" (side note it really is capitalized like that. That was weird to type. Idk why it's like that. Like a fucking book title.) you would fuck around and try to find some way to make those words mean that cigarettes aren't dangerous- because the core message, the REAL message isn't important to you, fitting it into your agenda so you can do what you want (smoke or not beat your kids, respectively).

You might say, "I don't believe that" point blank, or you might say, "It doesn't flat out say not to do it, because it only says that it "increases the risk"! It's a test of my faith. It MEANS that I'm supposed to go ahead and smoke (or not beat my kids) because only sinful people will get lung cancer (or sinful children). If I'm a good smoker (or parent) it will all be ok in the end!

And I'm sitting over here, watching you do that shit, going, "Does she REALLY think that, or is she bullshitting me?"

Because I objectively know that the Surgeon General is saying that smoking will kill you, and that god is saying that you have to beat your kids or watch them go to hell. EVERYONE objectively knows this. But some people will try to fuck with the text and make it say what they already want to hear.

You HAVE to prove that you're NOT doing that if you want anyone to believe you. Even other Christians don't believe you about the beating their kids thing. Like... it is a very, very small sect that can find a way to convince themselves that that's not the case. Most Christians firmly believe in spankings, BECAUSE THAT IS OBJECTIVELY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS TO DO.

There is a difference here, in that the Surgeon General is a real person and a fucking doctor, who knows what the hell they're talking about and can therefore give good advice on the subject of medical health, and god is a fictional character who even within his fictional universe knows so little about child-rearing that he allowed his own child to be tortured and killed to prove a point.

So... I'm more inclined to follow the advice of one of these people than the other.
 
Kirkrapine said:
It is certainly no surprise. We have known for some time that at least 25% of Millennials are agnostic or atheist.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and some of those surveys are worded weird so that number is actually probably lower, when you look at how the studies were carried out and who's doing them. A lot of the times it's religious organizations, and they'll count you as religious if you score high on ANY factor. So we see them using church attendance as a measure of religious devotion, but it's like... just not, in the real world. I'm an atheist and I've taught Sunday School and attended church off and on my whole life.

That happens a lot. I don't even like church, but a lot of non-religious people do, because it's about a lot more than religion. Religion is actually a pretty small part of church. They'll also watch your kids for a couple of hours so you can get a cup of coffee and go to a bible study. They'll also help you pay to go on trips. They also foster a sense of community and are a way to meet people who live nearby the expand your social circle, especially if you've just moved somewhere.

There's an amount of atheists in church that's probably shocking to religious people.

Funny cute story time- I actually have a bunch of cute kid stories from church, like there's a running gag in my close friend group where we call tambourines "jingle frisbies" because a little girl at church called them that one time and it was so goddamn cute.

But the first time Bitesize ever called me a whore- the only time I can think of, was in a church. She was like 3, and with NO provocation she looked at me and called me a whore right to my face. Like out of the blue. In a CHURCH. She said it deadpan, too, like... completely serious and like it was a common, self explanatory thing to say, just like, "Daddy! You're a whore!"

I took her back to the foyer (it was during the high energy song portion of the service anyway) and I was like, "Hey kiddo, quick question- you're not wrong but why the FUCK did you say that to me?"

Because like... as far as I know she shouldn't know what a whore was, to apply that descriptor to anybody.

She told me that I had sweated through my shirt, and that made me a whore.

It took me a second- but I got it.

Sweating like a whore in church.

Yhall ever try to explain to a toddler why she ought not call people whores, in a church house, while other people are passing out and spasming with the holy spirit in the fucking aisle?

I was scared to death that she had somehow found out what daddy and her "uncle" did on their sleepovers and was about to tell EVERYBODY. Like... she knows we kiss and stuff, and doesn't know why it's a secret. So that's a perfectly rational thing for me to be scared of.
 
CandiCame said:
Wow. I can read AND crochet better than you. Maybe you ought to reach a point where you either stop talking about how much better I am at stuff OR you stop arguing with me. I can tell you how to fix that to- and I bet you'll listen because you're not using crocheting as a crutch for your own emotional issues and don't see it as part of your self-identity.

Make your first project a double-crochet scarf in a light color like white or a pastel. Use chunky sized yard in acrylic, and a big ass needle, like a 10 or higher. Chain a certain number of stitches, won't have to be much because the yarn and hook are so big. Make it an easy to remember number, like 10 or 15. Now, as you're working across your rows, co of that row, make sure you're still at 15 counting the chain- if you're not, if you're at 14, which I suspect is your problem, pull that last stitch out and double crochet into the loop there. There won't be a V there, because it's the chain from where you started that row, not a stitch. That'll give you 15. That'll give you an even row.
Oh
Here's the thing, I mentioned before that I did study the bible, that I'm certified to teach it. You're giving me links to people who have less credentials than me, who have an agenda that they are trying to defend, and who do not "do nothing but study this". Several of the people you linked have books that they're trying to sell, to fit the agenda that they're trying to shove. They're NOT reputable sources and are not considered reputable by ACTUAL biblical scholars. They're laypeople who are coming in, who BRAG about being self-taught. They're PREACHERS who BELIEVE the bible is a thing that needs to be applicable to their real life- who are making a living by twisting the word of god for fun and profit. These are the people that Jesus would have flipped the table on during their book signing. If you think that this shit is real, you should be ACTIVELY ANGRY at those people. You have to be objective, and you have to prove to a review board of your peers that you can be objective.
Click to expand...

Oh Candicame....I give you the best crochet title between the two of us but I am still holding out on the reading title. After all, you haven't seem my first grade super reader award.:eek:

I might look into crocheting after the holidays. I have my grandmother's crochet hooks but I don't think they went as high as the number you gave me. She crocheted a lot of beautiful doilies. I can count so maybe I will do Ok.

Did you know I was certified in something? Yes, sir.....I am certified in faith community nursing. Looking at the whole person including their spiritual needs. So I can tell you QUIT SMOKING! That is objective!!! This is subjective...that is some nasty stuff to deal with. By the time they find it is usually too far along. My dad had an awful time. Started smoking when it was cool. Smoked unfiltered luckies. He didn't have any health issues either until he died.:eek: He had the left lower lobe of his lung removed. My brother in law beat him out. He smoked about 3 packs a day. He just had the middle lobe of his right lung removed. There are a lot of things out there to help people quit. Patches...pills....gum. Please think about it. I don't know what I would do without you around here to give crochet tips and to tell me I'm a moron. (BTW they are starting to do X-ray screenings.. something to consider)

I know because I use to go around and say I am overweight but healthy. It sneaks up and bites you when you have your heart attack.:eek: I had suffered from anxiety that gave me chest pains. I often wondered if I would recognize a heart attack or just think it is anxiety. No doubt about it. That hurts like anything. That elephant you feel on your chest is a big one. Eventually your body wears down from the extra weight as you age. I lost 40 lbs since June. Stuck on a plateau right now.

So my sources are biblical scholars and yours are ACTUAL biblical scholars. None of your scholars have had anything worth printing and sharing. That makes them more reputable? I don't think we are going to agree on this issue. You only see what you want to see and what you don't you exclude. Me I would actually look at your sources if you ever made mention of them. I only see you giving us your opinion.

I can't deny that I would love to get together with all of you in heaven when our time comes. I still pray for that because I care. Maybe you can send some good vibes my way.:cool:
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Yes people need to be in Church serving Christ I agree!
Click to expand...

That would be a whole lot better than being in church for the usual reasons, yes.

Shame its so unlikely.

Just imagine if all the christian churches started using all of their power and wealth to help the poor instead of for self-aggrandizement, accumulating treasure and maintaining giant phallic edifices with no practical purpose.

I'd rather give time and money to an organisation that will actually use most of it to help people in need, rather than to pay the church electricity bills or fix the church roof.
 
Tryharder62 said:
Oh Candicame....I give you the best crochet title between the two of us but I am still holding out on the reading title. After all, you haven't seem my first grade super reader award.:eek:

I might look into crocheting after the holidays. I have my grandmother's crochet hooks but I don't think they went as high as the number you gave me. She crocheted a lot of beautiful doilies. I can count so maybe I will do Ok.

Did you know I was certified in something? Yes, sir.....I am certified in faith community nursing. Looking at the whole person including their spiritual needs. So I can tell you QUIT SMOKING! That is objective!!! This is subjective...that is some nasty stuff to deal with. By the time they find it is usually too far along. My dad had an awful time. Started smoking when it was cool. Smoked unfiltered luckies. He didn't have any health issues either until he died.:eek: He had the left lower lobe of his lung removed. My brother in law beat him out. He smoked about 3 packs a day. He just had the middle lobe of his right lung removed. There are a lot of things out there to help people quit. Patches...pills....gum. Please think about it. I don't know what I would do without you around here to give crochet tips and to tell me I'm a moron. (BTW they are starting to do X-ray screenings.. something to consider)

I know because I use to go around and say I am overweight but healthy. It sneaks up and bites you when you have your heart attack.:eek: I had suffered from anxiety that gave me chest pains. I often wondered if I would recognize a heart attack or just think it is anxiety. No doubt about it. That hurts like anything. That elephant you feel on your chest is a big one. Eventually your body wears down from the extra weight as you age. I lost 40 lbs since June. Stuck on a plateau right now.

So my sources are biblical scholars and yours are ACTUAL biblical scholars. None of your scholars have had anything worth printing and sharing. That makes them more reputable? I don't think we are going to agree on this issue. You only see what you want to see and what you don't you exclude. Me I would actually look at your sources if you ever made mention of them. I only see you giving us your opinion.

I can't deny that I would love to get together with all of you in heaven when our time comes. I still pray for that because I care. Maybe you can send some good vibes my way.:cool:
Click to expand...

I'm out. I'm done with the thread. You're actually evil.

I've spoken a LOT about the faith healing epidemic and how it's killing children. I'm never talking to you again. You're on ignore.

I can't care about you anymore because the hate would consume me. I hope that someone who has more patience than I do can help you before you keep fucking killing people.

There is actual hate in my heart over this. I thought you were just misguided but you're an actual fucking monster. The world is a worse place because you're in it.

When people are at their fucking weakest, when they're sick, when they're hurt ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE FUCKING CHILDREN that is NOT the time to step in with the god bullshit. That is not the time to push an agenda. I hope that karma is a real thing and that you'll have to answer to that one day.

I have seen people die because of people like you. I can't be objective like this. This goes beyond the hate crimes, this goes beyond the beatings- this is preying on people who are at their lowest.

I hope to any god that might exist that you figure out how fucking evil you are one day and spend the rest of your life trying to make up for what you've done.

I can't forgive this.

Never talk to me again.
 
CandiCame said:
I'm out. I'm done with the thread. You're actually evil.

I've spoken a LOT about the faith healing epidemic and how it's killing children. I'm never talking to you again. You're on ignore.

I can't care about you anymore because the hate would consume me. I hope that someone who has more patience than I do can help you before you keep fucking killing people.

There is actual hate in my heart over this. I thought you were just misguided but you're an actual fucking monster. The world is a worse place because you're in it.

When people are at their fucking weakest, when they're sick, when they're hurt ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE FUCKING CHILDREN that is NOT the time to step in with the god bullshit. That is not the time to push an agenda. I hope that karma is a real thing and that you'll have to answer to that one day.

I have seen people die because of people like you. I can't be objective like this. This goes beyond the hate crimes, this goes beyond the beatings- this is preying on people who are at their lowest.

I hope to any god that might exist that you figure out how fucking evil you are one day and spend the rest of your life trying to make up for what you've done.

I can't forgive this.

Never talk to me again.
Click to expand...

And you say you are objective.? I'm not a faith healer. I'm a nurse that considers the whole aspect of emotional, physical, and spiritual well-being. I don't even work in a faith that I believe in. Yet, at that time in their life, at the end, if they want to talk to someone face to face and reconcile some things I go get someone that they can talk to. I don't make them believe what I believe. It's much like a chaplain in the Army who listens to everybody and tries to help. Everyone has some spiritual needs, even you. In your case the decision on God is no, but something else is important to you. I would still be there for you to listen and support you no matter what. I respect your right to choose. I just try to live my faith.....to love one another. I will miss you. To bad the respect can't go both ways.
 
Looked at the poll results, 51% said No, sure is going to be a lot of people get a rude surprise when they pass and find out they wish they have accepted!
 
bikurinpa said:
Looked at the poll results, 51% said No, sure is going to be a lot of people get a rude surprise when they pass and find out they wish they have accepted!
Click to expand...

Alternatively, could be an awful lot of Christians arriving in hell, and being told by Lucifer, "yes, I'm sorry - the Jews were right!"
 
CandiCame said:
I'm out. I'm done with the thread. You're actually evil.
.
Click to expand...

Oh brother , way to be dramatic. You totally flew off the handle over her career? I think you need to move out of applalchia or whatever the heck it's called. The old south in general. It's clearly tainted your mind on the beauty of God.
 
 
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