How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Led_Astray]

You want me to reprogram my brain to start believing in sometime for which there is no evidence? That would require a huge shift in the way my brain works, and the ignoring of accumulated life experiences going back many, many years.

How is that *easy*?

How *easy* would it be for you to start being a practicing Buddhist?

 

[phrodeau]

Wouldn't it be much easier for you guys to accept Jesus into your hearts? All this talk from you both, that could be used for worshipping our Savior. Tomorrow is Sunday; go to church

There's no evidence of Heaven. There's no evidence of Hell. There is no evidence that anyone has a soul, or anything that has the potential of immortality. What is it that you need a Savior for? What do you need saving from? And if you do need a Savior, why would you choose one who needs you to worship him before he'll save you?

 

[Kirkrapine]

Lucifer was a king of Babylon. I have the feeling that he was not popular.

Some Near Eastern kings used the title "Morning Star," translated in the Vulgate as "Lucifer," which is what the Romans called the planet Venus.

 

[HelpImLost]

You want me to reprogram my brain to start believing in sometime for which there is no evidence? That would require a huge shift in the way my brain works, and the ignoring of accumulated life experiences going back many, many years.
How is that *easy*?
How *easy* would it be for you to start being a practicing Buddhist?

There's no evidence of Heaven. There's no evidence of Hell. There is no evidence that anyone has a soul, or anything that has the potential of immortality. What is it that you need a Savior for? What do you need saving from? And if you do need a Savior, why would you choose one who needs you to worship him before he'll save you?

Both of these messages are extremely nasty and wicked. What is wrong with the pair of you? Jesus died for us, and for us to have heaven someday. That includes both of you. And Led, it'd be difficult for me to practice Buddhism. I went through my edgy phase like everyone else and was interested in Buddhism and more new age worships but I NEED my JESUS. And he needs you to!

And I'm looking at the time stamps of your replies, both of you. I was out at a certain spiritual shop I enjoy visiting and I could feel an eerie feeling. It was from the pair of you denouncing our beautiful savior. I sneezed many times and I knew something was going wrong!

Please you both have to change your ways, before it is too late!

 

[colddiesel]

I will add to your amusement by putting my two cents in. It wsn't invented by Paul it was brought to us by Jesus.

Then you argue it with HIL; poor sod hasn't a clue, that's why an argument between him/her and the equally clueless xfrodo would be fun.

My take is that Yeshua ben Joseph was a good Jewish Rabbi in the tradition of his near contemporary Hillel the Elder. Most of the NT is garbage put together to support the propaganda of Paul and his followers.

Yeshua told his surviving followers to go to James the Just, his brother. They did not but followed the usurper Paul instead. And the Jesus movement was totally perverted from that moment on, as it became increasingly larded with theological claptrap by a power hungry elite.

 

[HelpImLost]

Then you argue it with HIL; poor sod hasn't a clue, that's why an argument between him/her and the equally clueless xfrodo would be fun.

My take is that Yeshua ben Joseph was a good Jewish Rabbi in the tradition of his near contemporary Hillel the Elder. Most of the NT is garbage put together to support the propaganda of Paul and his followers.

Yeshua told his surviving followers to go to James the Just, his brother. They did not but followed the usurper Paul instead. And the Jesus movement was totally perverted from that moment on, as it became increasingly larded with theological claptrap by a power hungry elite.

This reply makes me feel sick to my stomach. Let's all stop putting words in my mouth, I don't believe I even brought up Paul or who invented what.

Why on earth would I argue with tryharder and frodo? It's clear we all come from different denominations, but they are still my brothers and sisters in CHRIST. We are still all Christians. So don't try and stir the pot and create a fight.

I'm more worried about the salvation of the other souls here, not the few rare and beautiful Christians.

 

[von_Bismarck]

This reply makes me feel sick to my stomach. Let's all stop putting words in my mouth, I don't believe I even brought up Paul or who invented what.

Why on earth would I argue with tryharder and frodo? It's clear we all come from different denominations, but they are still my brothers and sisters in CHRIST. We are still all Christians. So don't try and stir the pot and create a fight.

I'm more worried about the salvation of the other souls here, not the few rare and beautiful Christians.

I left the church as soon as I acquired sufficient awareness that I could make my own choices as to what I believe. I've been an epistemic agnostic ever since.

Maybe some day you'll acquire the same awareness. I can pray to Lucifer that you will.

 

[phrodeau]

Both of these messages are extremely nasty and wicked. What is wrong with the pair of you? Jesus died for us, and for us to have heaven someday. That includes both of you. And Led, it'd be difficult for me to practice Buddhism. I went through my edgy phase like everyone else and was interested in Buddhism and more new age worships but I NEED my JESUS. And he needs you to!

And I'm looking at the time stamps of your replies, both of you. I was out at a certain spiritual shop I enjoy visiting and I could feel an eerie feeling. It was from the pair of you denouncing our beautiful savior. I sneezed many times and I knew something was going wrong!

Please you both have to change your ways, before it is too late!

No answer to my questions?

Why should Jesus be worshipped? Where in the Bible does Jesus require it? There’s a verse where Jesus says you’re supposed to give all your money away, but that’s not the same thing.

Then there’s this, Luke 12:14, ”What makes you think I’m here to judge you?

 

[HelpImLost]

No answer to my questions?

Why should Jesus be worshipped? Where in the Bible does Jesus require it? There’s a verse where Jesus says you’re supposed to give all your money away, but that’s not the same thing.

Then there’s this, Luke 12:14, ”What makes you think I’m here to judge you?

I don't feel it's worth my time to reply to you in depth. After yesterday's fiasco where you put words in my mouth that I said poor people are dirty, after I had typed up a good reply to someone's message.

All I'll say in regards to Jesus being worshipped is look into the Holy Trinity. Christians often use the names of God and Jesus to be conjoined because God is the father, son, and holy spirit.

 

[Tryharder62]

Then you argue it with HIL; poor sod hasn't a clue, that's why an argument between him/her and the equally clueless xfrodo would be fun.

My take is that Yeshua ben Joseph was a good Jewish Rabbi in the tradition of his near contemporary Hillel the Elder. Most of the NT is garbage put together to support the propaganda of Paul and his followers.

Yeshua told his surviving followers to go to James the Just, his brother. They did not but followed the usurper Paul instead. And the Jesus movement was totally perverted from that moment on, as it became increasingly larded with theological claptrap by a power hungry elite.

Well then start by getting to know Jesus! He is a pretty cool dude!

No answer to my questions?

Why should Jesus be worshiped? Where in the Bible does Jesus require it? There’s a verse where Jesus says you’re supposed to give all your money away, but that’s not the same thing.

Then there’s this, Luke 12:14, ”What makes you think I’m here to judge you?

The Parable of the Rich Fool: Luke 12:13-15

13 Someone in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” 14 But Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed Me judge or executor between you?” 15 And He said to them, “Watch out! Guard yourselves against every form of greed, for a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”…

In ancient times, the firstborn was guaranteed a double portion of the family inheritance. More than likely, the brother who was addressing Jesus was not the firstborn and was asking for an equal share of the inheritance. Jesus refuses to arbitrate their dispute and gets to the heart of the matter: Covetousness! Jesus warns this person, and all within earshot, that our lives are not to be about gathering wealth. Life is so much more than the “abundance of possessions.”

Jesus doesn't answer his question he helps teach him what way is right.

The Bible teaches that Jesus of Nazareth is nothing less than God the Son, the second Person of the Triune God (Trinity). He is due our worship.

 

[colddiesel]

The Bible teaches that Jesus of Nazareth is nothing less than God the Son, the second Person of the Triune God (Trinity). He is due our worship.

You can jump through theological hoops as much as you like and claim that "the bible says" this or that when it's clearly your own and your churches absurd interpretation.

Your biggest problem is that Jesus never made any of these absurd claims for himself. As a good Jew he would have regarded Trinitarian doctrine as nonsense. And of course the doctrine of the Trinity was only established by the Church 250 years after Jesus' death.

If you really wanted to follow Jesus you would read the Sermon on the Mount which is a totally conventional statement for a Jewish rabbi of that time. As a Jesus fan your only logical move is to convert to Judaism. Despite your current denomination you remain a slave to 4th Century Roman Catholic theology.

 

[Led_Astray]

Both of these messages are extremely nasty and wicked.

Really? In waht way was my message nasty? I have always tried to live a life based on empirical evidence, where I treat people well until they give me reason to do otherwise, rather than believing horrible things about complete strangers (as you do)
just because of their beliefs or sexuality or skin colour.

"Oh but LED_astray" I hear you simper, "Thats not true because you hate Christians".

Nope, I don't. Catholics, yes, but not Christains. And I have good reason to hate Catholics. You are voluntarily a member of an organisation that has, at the highest level, deliberately protected pedophiles from prosecution. Not one or two isolated incidences, but actual, systemic protection for those that harm children in the worst way.

Wheras you hate people for having different beliefs than you. You have accused another poster of not even being human, of being a demon. I mean, literal demonisation? The same excuse that has allowed Catholics through the ages to pretend that "Love thy neighbour" didn't apply to anyone they didn't like.

And Led, it'd be difficult for me to practice Buddhism. I went through my edgy phase like everyone else and was interested in Buddhism and more new age worships but I NEED my JESUS. And he needs you to!

So, it would be difficult for you to change your beliefs. Why then do you assume it would be easy for somebody else?

And if I had to join a faith, it certainly wouldn't be the bloated, hypocritical Evangelical Christian faith as represented by america, where you praise Jesus whilst condemning the poor and the needy. It wouldn't be Catholocism, because I have no intention of joining the "lets protect pedophiles" club. Church of England? A joke of a religion started by a king because the pope wouldn't give him a divorce so he said "Fine, I'll start my own religion nyah nyah!"

If I *had* to join one of the many, many "I believe in just one god" clubs, I believe I have said before, it would probably be Sikhism. A faith that practices what it preaches. But that wouldn't require me to beleive in Jesus, so I guess it wouldn't be good enough for you, no matter how much good Sikhs do in the world.

 

[Tryharder62]

You can jump through theological hoops as much as you like and claim that "the bible says" this or that when it's clearly your own and your churches absurd interpretation.

Your biggest problem is that Jesus never made any of these absurd claims for himself. As a good Jew he would have regarded Trinitarian doctrine as nonsense. And of course the doctrine of the Trinity was only established by the Church 250 years after Jesus' death.

If you really wanted to follow Jesus you would read the Sermon on the Mount which is a totally conventional statement for a Jewish rabbi of that time. As a Jesus fan your only logical move is to convert to Judaism. Despite your current denomination you remain a slave to 4th Century Roman Catholic theology.

You might want to check it out again.

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I follow the teachings of Jesus. As to where I worship........ I'm a dunker. (Baptist)

 

[Led_Astray]

You might want to check it out again.

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I follow the teachings of Jesus. As to where I worship........ I'm a dunker. (Baptist)

If Jesus didn't come to abolish the biblical laws that preceded him, why do his followers ignore those laws (eg, all those rules laid out in Leviticus, for example)

 

[Tryharder62]

If Jesus didn't come to abolish the biblical laws that preceded him, why do his followers ignore those laws (eg, all those rules laid out in Leviticus, for example)

The purpose of the Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.

Accepting Jesus does not mean that we can then go out and sin. It means that we have turned from sin and we are new creatures who desire to bring glory to God and not use the grace of God to sin.

http://www.21st-century-christianity.com/images/Moses.jpgTryharder62

 

[Kirkrapine]

Your biggest problem is that Jesus never made any of these absurd claims for himself. As a good Jew he would have regarded Trinitarian doctrine as nonsense.

He might have believed he was the Messiah -- but in Jewish eschatology the Messiah is not God, nor the Son of God. He will be called the Son of God, but that's just a title the ancient kings of Judah used.

And the Messiah will not die for our sins. That's not his job. His job is to rule the world.

 

[HelpImLost]

"Oh but LED_astray" I hear you simper, "Thats not true because you hate Christians".Nope, I don't. Catholics, yes, but not Christains.

I would just like to point out that catholics are Christians. Christianity is a large blanket term with the main denominations of Catholicism, Orthodox, and Protestant. So I'm assuming you meant to say you hate catholics, but NOT protestants. Because protestant and all its smaller subgroups, such as evangelical, Baptist, united, etc, make up, and take up the main label of "Christian". So the sentence I quoted I felt the need to correct.

And also I am not responsible for the evil sexual abuse that happens in the church, that was done by MAN and is defended by MAN, not God and NOT ME. And I don't appreciate at all that you make it sound like we're all to blame for it. I've been tempted to leave the Catholic Church many times due to constant scandal. But I stay because it's the religion of God. Why would I let man drive me away from my God and worship? He will punish those in the end , if the law and church officials don't.

The rest of your post , blah blah blah. The usual bitter rantings of an atheist. I'll continue to keep you in my prayers.

Jesus is our Savior, and He loves all of you! Whether you want to believe it or not!

 

[Kirkrapine]

I would just like to point out that catholics are Christians.

You're opening a can of worms there. For centuries Catholics and Protestants denied each other's Christianity. Lately they seem to have joined forces against atheism and secularism, but there are still many who think in the old way. Jack Chick had a public for a reason.

 

[phrodeau]

http://www.startribune.com/fastest-growing-religion-in-minnesota-the-nation-is-none/498664191/

Fastest growing religion is ‘none’.
One in four Americans now belong to no religion, a trend fueling church closings, mergings.

http://static.startribune.com/newsgraphics/unchurching-series/111118-desktop-no-religion-2.svg

 

[Kirkrapine]

And also I am not responsible for the evil sexual abuse that happens in the church, that was done by MAN and is defended by MAN, not God and NOT ME. And I don't appreciate at all that you make it sound like we're all to blame for it. I've been tempted to leave the Catholic Church many times due to constant scandal. But I stay because it's the religion of God. Why would I let man drive me away from my God and worship? He will punish those in the end , if the law and church officials don't.

I must admit that if I were in a position where teenage girls assisted me in worship services and looked on me as God, I would have a hard time keeping my hands off them.

Mostly it's not girls, it's boys -- well, if you're Catholic and gay, the priesthood must look like an attractive calling; it will relieve you of all social pressure to marry. I think the offending priests are probably not so much pedos as simply gay, and with more influence over boys than men.

 

[Led_Astray]

The purpose of the Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.

Accepting Jesus does not mean that we can then go out and sin. It means that we have turned from sin and we are new creatures who desire to bring glory to God and not use the grace of God to sin.

http://www.21st-century-christianity.com/images/Moses.jpgTryharder62

That's not really related to what I asked though, is it?

You say you try to avoid sin, but then still go and do all those things from Leviticus that are listed as being against gods law. So, I ask again, if Jesus himself said, (as you yourself posted), "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. " why do modern Christians not follow those Laws?

 

[Led_Astray]

I would just like to point out that catholics are Christians. Christianity is a large blanket term with the main denominations of Catholicism, Orthodox, and Protestant.

I am fully aware of that, thank you. But it is semantically acceptable to say that you hate one subgroup of a larger group without implying hatred of the whole of the larger group.

Amusingly, I find that most evangelicals protestants only count Catholics as Christians when asked "What is the most popular religion?" as otherwise, they wouldn't be able to say it was Christianity...

****

And also I am not responsible for the evil sexual abuse that happens in the church, that was done by MAN and is defended by MAN, not God and NOT ME.

But you continue to provide money, power and support to an organistation that has been PROVEN to use that money and power to protect pedophiles. Thereby letting the people committing the crimes and those helping to protect them know that you don't care. By your continued devotion to the creed, you are quite literally enabling their behaviour. Not only that, but you encourage (damn near ORDER!) others to join.

If my local school were revealed to have a molestor on staff, and on being revelaed he was merely moved to a different classroom, I would not send my child to that school and I certainly wouldn't be encouraging others to do so.

Your "but god will sort it out" is just a cop out. Would you say the same if it was you being raped, and the cops turned up and said, "Well, god will punish the guy eventually, no need for us to get involved."? Every molestation carried out by a catholic Priest who was protected by the church *after* their nature was revealed can be collectively blamed on those that turned a blind eye and just continued to drop their money in the collection plate every Sunday.

The rest of your post , blah blah blah. The usual bitter rantings of an atheist. I'll continue to keep you in my prayers.

So, you deny that you wished death upon another poster then said it was OK because they aren't human? 'Cos the evidence is right here, unless you've snuck back and edited it.

Also, I'm not bitter Most people consider me quite sweet, actually

 

[HelpImLost]

Led_astray... where do you think I learned it from... I think that demon degenerate didn't mind my little expire comment... https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=89733949&postcount=3

So where was your pathetic white knight self when that was said to me lol.. YOU are a pathetic joke.

 

[Led_Astray]

Led_astray... where do you think I learned it from... I think that demon degenerate didn't mind my little expire comment... https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=89733949&postcount=3

So where was your pathetic white knight self when that was said to me lol.. YOU are a pathetic joke.

White-knighting? Me? Lol. i wasn't defending him, I was pointing out your hypocrisy.

"He did it first" isn't much of an excuse, and its even worse from somebody who claims to follow a man who quite plainly said "Turn the other cheek."

Like I am about to do, vis your insult to me. Strike at me again, if you must.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Led_astray... where do you think I learned it from... I think that demon degenerate didn't mind my little expire comment... https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=89733949&postcount=3

So where was your pathetic white knight self when that was said to me lol.. YOU are a pathetic joke.

That's not very Christian of you.