Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

[bellisarius]

You are going to die with or without food.

With, it will happen later.

Are you proposing that the government provide everyone with free food? How about housing?

 

[about_average]

.....

 

[Luk]

Says the guy cheerleading for the economically challenged idiot who started a trade war that hurt American farmers, requiring they be paid welfare. Welfare he obtained by borrowing moolah from the countries he started trade wars with.

Instead of profiting from food sales sold to these countries, America is now servicing debt and paying interest to those countries, while farmers become dependent on government and receive handouts.


What do you suppose would happen if China decided to call in the debt?

You shoulda been around for when he believed Obama took a trip to the middle east that cost $1 BILLION per day.

 

[Luk]

Prominent bleeding heart liberals, the Koch Bros., say 45 and his cult followers are full of shit.

Koch-Backed Think Tank Finds That “Medicare for All” Would Cut Health Care Spending and Raise Wages. Whoops.

But what the Associated Press headline fails to announce is a much more sanguine update: The report, by Senior Research Strategist Charles Blahous, found that under Sanders’s plan, overall health costs would go down, and wages would go up.

The study, which came out of the Koch-funded research center, was initially provided to the AP with a cost estimate that exceeded previous ones by an incredible $3 trillion — a massive error that was found and corrected by Sanders’s staff when approached by AP for comment.

But despite that correction, the report actually yields a wealth of good news for advocates of Sanders’s plan — a remarkable conclusion, given that Blahous is a former Bush administration economist working at a prominent conservative think tank.

Blahous’s paper, titled “The Costs of a National Single-Payer Healthcare System,” estimates total national health expenditures. Even though his cost-saving estimates are more conservative than others, he acknowledges that Sanders’s “Medicare for All” plan would yield a $482 billion reduction in health care spending, and over $1.5 trillion in administrative savings, for a total of $2 trillion less in overall health care expenditures between 2022 and 2031, compared to current spending.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Parenting......

In what state?

Even if the violent confiscation of property was called parenting....do you need or want the state to be your parent?

I don't.

There are two "promote the general welfare" clauses in the Constitution.

Yes and there are also restrictions on that abound.

I don't think the founding fathers had the communistic welfare state you and the other "progressive" folks advocate in mind when they wrote that as evidenced by the rest of the Constitution and their other writings.

You agreed it would be better for the country if everyone had healthcare.

No I agreed that it would be money better spent than on a fuckin' wall or Trumps golfing excursions.

Vs. freedom and liberty to pursue ones happiness? No comparison....I'm on the side of liberty over equity. Because I'm not a degenerate socialist dirt bag who feels entitled to the property and time of others just because I show up with my hands out.

It was the republicans who insisted that the insurance companies get the windfall of the ACA dollars

The republicans didn't get a say so in the matter, take that lie and sell it to some other (D)ick sucker (D)umb enough to buy it.

LMAO
Look who's asking for a cite.

Yep...absurd claims require at least a wiki link.

The confiscation of other peoples property by violent means or threat of violence is called robbery and extortion, nation wide.

 

[BotanyBoy]

-------------> point
you <--------------

I know you missed the point.

What I'm saying is the $32.6 trillion number is based on crazy high health care costs per capita.

So where's the 3x cost inflation coming from? Could part of it be that you have a financing mechanism, a business model as it were, that incentivices it?

It's not inflation it's corruption.

Because we have billion dollar campaigns to fund...and Pol's need their 750k "speaking fees" to stop by and say "hi" at brunch. So if they want to keep getting that they better make sure there is funding in that next bill for 500 dollar aspirins and 20,000 dollar inhalers. No price is too high for progress!!! Especially when it fills (D) pockets.

That is where that 3x cost is coming from.

(R)'s do the same shit but in different industries....that's why when I purchase a 22oz hammer from Acme hammer co. at the store it cost 18.99. And why when the Army buys the same damn hammer suddenly cost 800 fuckin' bucks.

 

[phrodeau]

Hasn't BotanyBoy found a dictionary yet?

 

[bellisarius]

~snip~

The confiscation of other peoples property by violent means or threat of violence is called robbery and extortion, nation wide.

~snip~

(R)'s do the same shit but in different industries....that's why when I purchase a 22oz hammer from Acme hammer co. at the store it cost 18.99. And why when the Army buys the same damn hammer suddenly cost 800 fuckin' bucks.

In regards to the first statement. This is already true. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.

As far as the second goes, a wee bit of an exaggeration there but a grain of truth none-the-less. The reason that the military pays $100 for that $20 hammer is that the government doesn't pay their bills in a timely manner. Sooooooooo, the cost of carrying that 'bad' debt (interest) is factored into the selling price. Companies borrow against their accounts receivables to finance fresh inventory and pay interest on that short term loan. The lenders, usually their bank, define any debt that goew beyond 90 days as a 'bad' debt. The borrower now has to cough up the cash AND the interest. The government routinely drags the payments on their purchases out to 180 days +. Remember "Cash for Clunkers?" Many dealers had to wait up to 270 days to receive their reimbursements. There are many vendors/service providers out there that refuse to do business with the government(s) for that very reason.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I see the ole "TAXES 'R THEFT! THEFT, DAMMIT!" crowd is out in force and shaking their tiny pink fists in anger this morning.

 

[about_average]

The republicans didn't get a say so in the matter, take that lie and sell it to some other (D)ick sucker (D)umb enough to buy it.

Compare the original plan to what it was after Obama wimped out and caved to the Republicans in congress.

That's not an answer. The nation grew and prospered for over 150 years without the government paying for your healthcare.

Quote where I said the US wouldn't "grow and prosper" without everyone having healthcare?

It's ok that you couldn't quote it, I knew you were making a BS statement about me implying the country wouldn't grow without universal healthcare.

But lets return to your brilliant statement that the country is just as prosperous when the life expectancy is 38 years as it is when life expectancy is 75 years.

That's not an answer.

Actually it was, you just couldn't fathom it.
Then you went on to expand on your ignorance.

The nation grew and prospered for over 150 years without the government paying for your healthcare.

Well done.

 

[bellisarius]

Compare the original plan to what it was after Obama wimped out and caved to the Republicans in congress.


It's ok that you couldn't quote it, I knew you were making a BS statement about me implying the country wouldn't grow without universal healthcare.

But lets return to your brilliant statement that the country is just as prosperous when the life expectancy is 38 years as it is when life expectancy is 75 years.Actually it was, you just couldn't fathom it.
Then you went on to expand on your ignorance.
Well done.

I made no such implication. You read that in. Fine.

My assertion is that the nation would continue to grow with or without Universal Healthcare and most likely faster without the crushing debt that comes with UH.

UH would be nothing more than government managed, rationed, healthcare. Take a number and then go wait in line with the rest of the peasants then pray to whatever spiritual entity you want that your number comes up before your NUMBER really does come up just like they do in every other nation with such a system. And it would have to be rationed. If you want to know why just go to YouTube and do a search on Black Friday Sales. That is how your fellow citizens behave when shit is discounted, just imagine their behavior when the shit is "free."

The wealthy and powerful won't be bothered by such things and will always receive the best of care without waiting. No matter how the system is contrived they'll make damn certain of that. The most skilled physicians will open practices outside the government system on a cash and carry basis. The rest of us will be saddled with the dregs. Make the system onerous enough and the really skilled will leave the country for greener pastures.

The problem is far too complex to be solved with the simplistic measures the neo-Marxist crowd are postulating. Just one of the issues I addressed in a reply to Botany. The fact that the government doesn't pay their bills in a timely manner. The cost of carrying that debt drives up the cost of everything it touches. And that's just ONE of the problems. Another problem is on brought up by Jafo(?) re. Country Clubs and yachts. An individual that embarks on becoming an MD today can expect to get out of school with a staggering $300K student loan debt. You and I are going to be paying that debt down by one means or another, with interest. That MD won't begin to start working for themselves and their family until they're in their 40's.

And those two instances are just part of a long list of issues.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Compare the original plan to what it was after Obama wimped out and caved to the Republicans in congress.

When he absolutely positively didn't have to AT ALL!!!

He and the (D)'s could have rammed UHC down their throats like they said they would do, like we elected them to do and there wouldn't be shit Republicans could do about it.

The only reason we don't have a decent HC system is because the (D)'s and Dear Leader Barack lost their integrity and sold everyone out.

So why compare what O said was up with what he actually did??

To try and blame his and the Democrats actions on the Republicans?

LOL sell that to a (D)ick sucker who is buying Kool-Aid in bulk bubba

Our shitty bastardized Romneycare system is 100% Democrat and Obama responsibility.....they put out corrupt shitty legislation, and it shows.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So you read this "The nation grew and prospered for over 150 years without the government paying for your healthcare." and some how come up with......

But lets return to your brilliant statement that the country is just as prosperous when the life expectancy is 38 years as it is when life expectancy is 75 years..

You're right up there with Psyberburger on the making shit up scale.

 

[about_average]

I made no such implication.

Actually you did, by countering an argument that was never made.

I haven't failed to notice you still haven't answered my two questions. But that's not atypical for you.

 

[dan_c00000]

I see the ole "TAXES 'R THEFT! THEFT, DAMMIT!" crowd is out in force and shaking their tiny pink fists in anger this morning.

And if you'll notice bot didn't respond to the fact that I destroyed him and his bloated military budget. Because if we're bombing poor brown people that's just fine in his racist mine but take a little bit of money away from his hero the Orange Nazi and he's ready to piss his pants.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And if you'll notice bot didn't respond to the fact that I destroyed him

Oh look....Dan is having fantasy time again.

 

[about_average]

So you read this "The nation grew and prospered for over 150 years without the government paying for your healthcare." and some how come up with......

When it's used to counter the statement, "Everyone in the country having healthcare is a lot better for the country", yes. Ish's reply was ignorant of the facts, or being willfully ignorant of the point. Actually, probably both.

If you and Ish want to argue that an extra 20 years of productivity isn't better for the country, find someone as disingenuous as you two to argue with. I don't have the desire to educate the two of you. It's obviously a wasted effort.

 

[nowisthetime]

I see the ole "TAXES 'R THEFT! THEFT, DAMMIT!" crowd is out in force and shaking their tiny pink fists in anger this morning.

The stupid part, is that these same idiots whine about government not working as it should be. Well duh, in order to have more efficient government agencies, money has to be invested!

Some people are unbelievable whiny, selfish, and dumb. But they enjoy THEIR OWN government benefits!

 

[bellisarius]

When it's used to counter the statement, "Everyone in the country having healthcare is a lot better for the country", yes. Ish's reply was ignorant of the facts, or being willfully ignorant of the point. Actually, probably both.

If you and Ish want to argue that an extra 20 years of productivity isn't better for the country, find someone as disingenuous as you two to argue with. I don't have the desire to educate the two of you. It's obviously a wasted effort.

You keep falling back on the same emotional bullshit.

Would it be better for the nation if everyone had a home? Would it be better for the country if everyone had nutritious meals? What else would be "better for the country" if just everyone had "it?" And who's going to pay for all of this shit that the country would be "better" for? And just WHO is going to be making those decisions? And that's the the thing, isn't it? Who's going to decide?

How about this. Wouldn't be better for the country if the spread of STD's was eliminated. So why don't we test everyone and ANYONE with an STD gets sent to a sexual Leper Colony? Wouldn't that be "better for the country?"

I can think of all sorts of emotional bullshit, and even some ideas of practical value, that would be "better for the country." Of course all of them are the antithesis of "Freedom and Liberty." They are all the products of control freaks, demigods, and Dictators.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I can think of all sorts of emotional bullshit, and even some ideas of practical value, that would be "better for the country." Of course all of them are the antithesis of "Freedom and Liberty." They are all the products of control freaks, demigods, and Dictators.

You’re talking to someone whos idea of freedom and liberty is total state control over everything for the sake of social and economic equity.

 

[bellisarius]

You’re talking to someone whos idea of freedom and liberty is total state control over everything for the sake of social and economic equity.

I understand that. It's worked so well in the Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela, and so many others. But there are a host of SFB's out there that think that they can implement the very same policies without suffering the very same consequences.

 

[about_average]

You keep falling back on the same emotional bullshit.

So now increased GDP is "emotional bullshit"?
LMAO, you're priceless.

 

[about_average]

You’re talking to someone whos idea of freedom and liberty is total state control over everything for the sake of social and economic equity.

Says the man who thinking putting the government between a woman and her doctor is "freedom". LOL

 

[RobDownSouth]

I understand that. It's worked so well in the Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela, and so many others. But there are a host of SFB's out there that think that they can implement the very same policies without suffering the very same consequences.

The Soviet Union is gone. Cuba and Venezuela are dependent on the market for sugar and oil, respectively. To equate the United States economy to that of Cuba or Venezuela is ignorant.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Says the man who thinking putting the government between a woman and her doctor is "freedom". LOL

If it doesn't affect Moochie personally, he doesn't care. "Rules for thee, but not for meeee!" is the slogan of NotRepublicans everywhere.