Antagonist Sweet Antagonist

[Kantarii]

I’ve tried to write stories that didn’t really have an antagonist in them. I usually found that what I wrote turned out to be rather boring or the protagonist was their own worst enemy. I do know that an antagonist doesn’t necessarily have to be the “villain” and I like to develop my antagonists in such a way that it pushes/coaches/steers/ tests the protagonist in certain ways.

Overall, I see an antagonist as a “balance” to telling a believable story - so much so that I end up developing the antagonist to greater extents than the story’s protagonist. Great idea? Dunno. Would love to hear the thoughts of other writers.

Kant

 

[LoquiSordidaAdMe]

I think a lot of erotica probably falls into the conflict category of man-vs-self. The antagonist is the protagonist's own attitudes and hang ups.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Or two (or more) protagonists each wanting a bit... of each other.

 

[Voboy]

Or two (or more) protagonists each wanting a bit... of each other.

This.

But I find bad characters far more interesting than good ones.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

I’ve tried to write stories that didn’t really have an antagonist in them. I usually found that what I wrote turned out to be rather boring or the protagonist was their own worst enemy. I do know that an antagonist doesn’t necessarily have to be the “villain” and I like to develop my antagonists in such a way that it pushes/coaches/steers/ tests the protagonist in certain ways.

Overall, I see an antagonist as a “balance” to telling a believable story - so much so that I end up developing the antagonist to greater extents than the story’s protagonist. Great idea? Dunno. Would love to hear the thoughts of other writers.

Kant

It's really difficult isn't it? I mean, there's always an antagonist vs protagonist right? The typical expected good guy vs bad guy has a traditional knack of taking center stage w/out really thinking about it. I challenged myself w/the same type scenario you seem to be on now. Talk about a major league stumbling block!

Once day I got this great idea for a believable story and thought "Wait! Does there always have to be a bad person? Does there always have to be a hero?"

My way around it was to have a situation where an honest mistake was made where no ill intentions were thought about or plotted. Like, everyone was on the same page. From there, the story evolved as some attempted to cover up the mistake while others attempted to uncover the mistake while assuming there was ill-intent. In this particular story, everyone's lives were forever changed. More like a song that goes like this - 'There ain't no bad guy. There ain't no good guy. There's only you and me and we just disagree.'

Hope that helps or makes any sense.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It's really difficult isn't it? I mean, there's always an antagonist vs protagonist right? The typical expected good guy vs bad guy has a traditional knack of taking center stage w/out really thinking about it. I challenged myself w/the same type scenario you seem to be on now. Talk about a major league stumbling block!

Once day I got this great idea for a believable story and thought "Wait! Does there always have to be a bad person? Does there always have to be a hero?"

My way around it was to have a situation where an honest mistake was made where no ill intentions were thought about or plotted. Like, everyone was on the same page. From there, the story evolved as some attempted to cover up the mistake while others attempted to uncover the mistake while assuming there was ill-intent. In this particular story, everyone's lives were forever changed. More like a song that goes like this - 'There ain't no bad guy. There ain't guy. There's only you and me and we just disagree.'

Hope that helps or makes any sense.

Well,you kind of screwed up the quote, but yes. In real life, people don't think they are the "bad guy". I've spent many long hours listening to people who have committed heinous crimes explain why they were in the right, how they were the aggrieved party. And, in most cases of day to day conflict, it's true. For me, a conflict between two people who are both, at least by their own light, good guys is far more interesting than Dudley Doright and Snidely Whiplash.

 

[NotWise]

Probably more than half of my stories have an antagonist. When they're there I like the way they offer focus for the story. When they aren't there then the conflicts have to come from other sources: Man-vs-self (internal confict), Man-vs-society (taboo, for instance), etc.

I went through the list and realized I couldn't easily categorize the conflict in 'Oscar's Place.' There is no antagonist but time itself, and the conflict seems to be between the past and the future.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

Well,you kind of screwed up the quote, but yes. In real life, people don't think they are the "bad guy". I've spent many long hours listening to people who have committed heinous crimes explain why they were in the right, how they were the aggrieved party. And, in most cases of day to day conflict, it's true. For me, a conflict between two people who are both, at least by their own light, good guys is far more interesting than Dudley Doright and Snidely Whiplash.

Perhaps. But yes - I do see you're point about real life. It's typical of us to believe ourselves to be the good guy (protagonist). Anyone else would or could be the bad guy (antagonist). It's a theme I've always gone with. Never always ends the way I intend. Far more often, the protagonist prevails in most of what I write. Sometimes, either or are their own worst enemies.

For me, in the particular scenario I posted, I took a radical departure from my norm and NOT as I wanted it to be. In that story, most were good people vs goodpeople - yet most were plagued with evil thoughts more along the lines of vindictiveness. Most were simply doing their jobs and whatever comes natural to them, yet some seen an opportunity to gain something and acted upon it. Often regretting their actions. In my usual style, I let it take a life of its' own - yet it's nothing like anything I've written. An unforeseen tremendous problem for me was deciding upon main characters vs minor ones and passersby. I became so engrossed with it, I studied various fields and occupations I'm unfamiliar with. The 1 singular question I kept asking myself as it evolved was,"At what point is my POV going too far or too little as another's POV will always present itself to either challenge or leave it be?"

My particular story speaks for itself in different ways and that's part of the intent.

 

[UghOkay]

I always try to have villains in series I write. Shit, I literally wrote myself in as the villain of my Tropes series.

If I'm writing a short one off story, I don't bother with it.

 

[Hypoxia]

For drama, a protagonist can oppose others, or fate or other uncontrollables like weather or disaster, or themself. Thine own self is thy worst enemy. I don't necessarily plan for a heavy in a tale. Some strokers and romances do quite well without a heavy. Sometimes a minor character evolves into a heavy because the voices in my head want it so. But often the challenge is finding a good excuse for fucking because this is LIT. Mom, Sonny, and Sis get naked in the backyard sprinkler on a hot day and start slurping. Or Jan and Pat masturbate for each other on their separate balconies. Or Debbie does Dallas. No foes needed.

 

[Blind_Justice]

No idea how I would write an antagonist in a "classic" piece of erotica, apart from jealous ex-husbands or other dudes trying to lay the object of the protagonist's desire, but in my usual SF/Fantasy stories, I'm trying to adhere to the "a hero needs a good villain" school of thought. "Hero" should be seen as synonymous for "protagonist", it's easier to type. Sue me.

Which means (for me at least)

- High stakes: Not neccessarily "only you can save the world". In my story "Shilana's Trial" for example, the big plot centers around the leading lady trying to find a way to un-petrify her lover, including waltzing right into her worst nightmare.

- The villain should be at least the equal, if not superior to the protagonist in power. Not only brute strength, maybe more wealth, more influence, more everything. Overcoming the odds and working with limitations makes the hero so much more believable. Even if it means dealing with the swarm of jocks tailing the quarterback while the hero tries to woo the prom queen.

- Don't be afraid to let the villain win ...at first. Have him take away something dear to the hero. Let him HURT the hero really badly. Make clear the villain is a credible threat. In some lucky constellations, the villain is the one "making" the hero. Think Thulsa Doom and Conan. Without Doom raiding Conan's village and selling him into slavery, the whole movie wouldn't have happened Or, to shamelessly plug "Shilana's Trial" again, without the dark elven priestess and her war band, the protagonist wouldn't be on a dark-elf-killing crusade to begin with.

- Don't fuck up the ending: Unless you're trying to pull a Juliet Marillier, have the final confrontation be worthwhile. Even IF the hero finds the means to undo the villain, has the one weapon to kill the baddie, knows "Power Word: Kill" or can call in a satellite strike from orbit, make it epic. You've spent so much time on building the feud, on building the villain - why would you off him with a simple insta-kill when you can make it a hard-fought battle instead? Have the villain snatch the "insta-kill" button away in the beginning of the battle, for the hero only to get it back after outsmarting the bad guy or beating the bad guy into submission. There's nothing more anticlimactic than a multi-chapter build-up and "Dorgon waved his hand. The Tyrant screamed, fell over in a blaze of fire and was done for. The naked Empress went to her knees and began to worship Dorgon's massive dick. The End." Right?

Again, no idea how much of this can be applied to "boy meets girl, they fuck in exotic locations or acrobatic contortions" types of stories, but maybe, maybe there are some useful ideas in my spurts. And if nothing else, I got to plug one of my better stories

 

[Gentleman_G]

I generally end up writing protagonists in conflict with themselves. Ethics, doubt, that kind of stuff. And that's even regardless of whether there is an actual antagonist. For me, a protagonist should stay true to him/herself and while personal growth is an aspect to change, it shouldn't change their personality. So they generally end up in conflict about how to solve something or act on something because it goes against their principles.

Having to kill the antagonist because said antagonist threatens to kill a person the protagonist cares about is something like that. He doesn't want to kill him, but if he doesn't, will he be able to live with the idea he could've done something to rescue his beloved when she ends up dying? Things like that are what makes the protagonist interesting. And if he actually does end up killing the antagonist, how will he deal with the fact he has killed someone? Will he find solace in his beloved, or will (s)he remind him/her forever what the protagonist has done? I find that intriguing. In a way the antagonist is not the biggest enemy the protagonist has, that would be his own actions.

 

[RetroFan]

Has anyone ever written a story where the main protagonist is completely unlikable, sometimes referred to as a 'Jerk Protagonist'?

One of my stories 'Sexy Savannah From Number 9' features a main character called Dino, a 19-year-old Italian-Australian who has been sent back to high school by his strict parents after failing Year 12. Dino's authoritarian father (who would be classed as a 'Large Ham' on the TV Tropes website) yells orders at his son calling him a faggot, a sissy and a spastic among other terms of endearment. Dino's mother is just as bad as her husband, Dino's grandmother is completely insane while Dino's high-achieving twin sister is openly favored by her parents, lording her superiority over Dino at every chance she gets. Dino has a casual girlfriend who whines and bitches about everything, and at school things are even worse. He is relentlessly bullied by the school's alpha bitch, her boyfriend and their friends, who spread false rumors about him, write offensive graffiti about him and set him up to take the blame for situations. At school we also meet Dino's Principal and guess what? He's an asshole too.

While Dino has a miserable lot in life, the character is selfish, negative, lazy, self-pitying and does tend to bring problems upon himself that it is close to impossible to feel any sympathy for him.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Has anyone ever written a story where the main protagonist is completely unlikable, sometimes referred to as a 'Jerk Protagonist'?

I haven't written one, but some of my favorite books like The Magicians (I've read the Trilogy, they're all great but the first one gets you) and A Secret History have kind of douchey, unsympathetic protagonists, and the only antagonists are their friends in a way who are equally unlikable.
In my opinion, though, a 'good' villain should always be more pitiable than the hero, and an interesting hero can never be too perfect.

 

[Hypoxia]

I've written MCs who are definitely not nice people. They make nice caricatures.

 

[SimonDoom]

You don't need an antagonist to have conflict and drama in a story, especially in an erotic story. In most erotic stories, you have two people come together in some way or another. Neither one truly is an antagonist. The conflict typically does not arise from an antagonistic person; typically it is created by the internal conflict of the protagonist or some societal barrier or taboo that inhibits the protagonist's ability to fulfill his/her erotic desire.

I think this is especially true in short stories. Long stories, and series, benefit from having characters who thwart the protagonists and therefore acts as antagonists. But short stories often don't need such characters.

I've written 18 stories and I can't think of one that has a true antagonist.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Has anyone ever written a story where the main protagonist is completely unlikable, sometimes referred to as a 'Jerk Protagonist'?

Yup. In "The Faceless Executioner", I've tried to write a cold, heartless monster as the main protagonist. A brilliant fighter and assassin, but a waste of skin as a person. The story as a whole didn't go down as well as I hoped. Maybe the rewrite will, with about ten times the context and backstory.

 

[lovecraft68]

Because most of my main characters could be antagonists in most scenarios their antagonists have to be extra nasty.

In Every Dog has its Day I tried a reversal of it. By rights my female serial killer wold have been the antagonist to the two detectives after her.

However, I portrayed one detective as such a d-bag that if I did it right just as many if not more readers were hoping the killer would take him out, making him in a sense the antagonist.

Or maybe I was just drinking when I came up with that.

 

[RetroFan]

Yup. In "The Faceless Executioner", I've tried to write a cold, heartless monster as the main protagonist. A brilliant fighter and assassin, but a waste of skin as a person. The story as a whole didn't go down as well as I hoped. Maybe the rewrite will, with about ten times the context and backstory.

I have noticed that my stories with nice characters seem to have higher scores.

For example the titular character in my black comedy 'Bridget the Bossy Bridezilla' is a nasty, vindictive, spoiled rich girl with a worryingly close relationship with her father who screws her fiancé's loser younger brother (whom she cannot stand) out of pure spite. She allows him to do things to her that she won't permit her fiancé to do with her such as fingering her anal area, foot fetishism and giving him fellatio. The score on this story isn't bad - 4.12 - but not as good as I hoped, given how much hot sex is involved.

Of my lesbian stories, one called 'The PTA Queen Bee and the Teen Rebel' has lead characters who are awful people, a bullying alpha bitch who runs the PTA with a fist of iron and who cheats clients in her job as a real estate broker; and a heavy metal fan whose behavior is so atrocious she is sent to Catholic boarding school. The story drew positive comments, but a poor overall score of 3.87.

Compare this to 'April Leads Julie Astray', a story set in the early 1960s where the two titular characters are nice girls who had difficult childhoods, April a victim of child abuse (physical & emotional) in her formative years and Julie stricken with polio as a little girl and left with a damaged leg as a result. The story, which I was worried readers may not like due to the serious themes, gained lots of positive comments and a high score of 4.69.

 

[Gentleman_G]

Compare this to 'April Leads Julie Astray', a story set in the early 1960s where the two titular characters are nice girls who had difficult childhoods, April a victim of child abuse (physical & emotional) in her formative years and Julie stricken with polio as a little girl and left with a damaged leg as a result. The story, which I was worried readers may not like due to the serious themes, gained lots of positive comments and a high score of 4.69.

Never underestimate how serious themes are appreciated. People with a disability in some kind of way, whether they be physical or mental, are generally a little more fleshed out to describe the background of it. Same thing for damaged people.
And people appreciate fleshed out characters.