Government shutdown over illegals?

[bellisarius]

Who do you sound like when you make a dozen vanity threads for another man spanning a decade?

Obsessed?
Neurotic?
Stalkerish?

And the tax thing could work until they are unable to pay and have to close shop. That will get the legal employees in line, real quick.

A dozen? Link them.

 

[Saint Peter]

For those of you who think the DACA argument is about illegal aliens, about immigration and allowing those who come over the border in the dark of night a pass to stay, it isn't. It's more about the character of our country and whether or not we as a nation have any honor or will stand by a promise made.

We haven't in the past, not by a long damn site. Ask any First Nation. Ask them about treaties made and broken. The Cherokee Tribe and their land on the eastern seaboard, The Sioux and the Black Hills, The Apache and their lands in the south west, the Comanche and their lands in Texas, the Chinook nations and their rights to hunt whales and fish. Promises made and promises broken.

So now we have the DACA immigrants. They were brought here as children without their permission. They grew up and became a contributing part of American society, so much so some know and speak only English.

Because they were involuntarily brought here, because they grew up as we did, as Americans, with the same love of country, the same pride in living here, missing only the official stamp of citizenship, they were made a promise: You will not be sent away even if you are not a citizen.

And now, rather then try to find a path for them to citizenship, rather then live up to our promise, we are threatening them with deportation. Does our word mean nothing? Are or promises still as hollow as they were when we broke all those treaties with the First Nations?

I know there are those here who will say it doesn't matter, that the promise wasn't made by their side. But it does. The promise was made by my government, my country and I am part of that. As such we need to stand up and do what we swore we would. After what we did to our own, after all the lies and broken promises, it's time to stop and do the right thing. Do what we promised we would do.


Comshaw

I agree with this. Sometimes keeping your word, your deal, is not easy. Promises were made and the US needs to live up to them.

 

[PollDancer]

“The DACA program was formed through executive order by former President Barack Obama in 2012 and allowed certain people, called Dreamers, who came to the U.S. illegally as minors to be protected from immediate deportation. Recipients were able to request “consideration of deferred action” for a period of two years, which is subject to renewal.”

“Individuals also had to have a high school diploma, GED certification, been honorably discharged from the military or still be in school. Recipients could not have a criminal record. It does not provide legal status”


Not a real law, just one of those circumvential exec orders.

A temporary stay of deportation.

At some point, you have to go back and tag up.

Time for these nice visitors and their kids to go home.

They are welcome to apply for legal status at any port of entry.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I can't wait to see how that strategy works out for the democrats. Are they caucusing in an echo chamber?

They can have their DACA 'free pass' if that's what they truly wanted. Trump is willing to give it up under the same rules that Obama put in place. So what's the problem?

Apparently the problem is that the democrats are going to fight to the bitter end to sustain the flow of illegals across our borders. The uneducated, unhealthy, and unskilled are more important to them than the citizen. It's hard to come to any other conclusion based on their behavior. They haven't even offered up any alternatives or points of negotiation re. Trumps demands.

So it appears that there is a growing faction within the democrat party to shut down the government over the issue, DACA being their 'talking point.' They're leaving themselves wide open to a broadside in retaliation.

What surprises me is that the congressional black caucus is going along with this. Yeah, they hate Trump and think he's a racist. But that's a visceral reaction and not well thought out. Exactly whose jobs are those illegals taking? Unskilled and semi-skilled blue collar work. Precisely the jobs that black american's once had to use to propel the next generation further up the ladder. The latino's are no friends of the american black. They are merely a useful tool in the short term.

Back in the late 60's, early 70's there were a couple of riots in Miami's black communities. The match that lit the flame was police activity, but the big pile of fuel that was piling up to be burned had other causes. Namely the large influx of Cuban refugee's in the early 60's. They slowly took all the jobs that were once done by the black community. Construction, small business, home cleaning services, yard work. The Cubans worked hard and for less money. Once the Cubans reached a certain threshold the blacks that applied for jobs were turned away, "tu no habla Espanol." Considering that the Cubans are for a large part of mixed race it became obvious that cultural background and language trumped (no pun intended) any racial or minority solidarity. So the Cubans worked their ass off and THEIR children went to college.

That very same pattern is repeating itself everywhere the immigrants, legal and illegal, settle in and reach a critical mass. (I readily admit I don't know what that critical mass is, just know it's there.) With regard to this shutdown idea it's only a matter of time before some smart republican snaps to this fact and points it out to the black community and this proposed shutdown represents as good an opportunity as any.

What was the article I read, the other day? Oh yeah, sanctuary state California is the country's leader in poverty.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

“The DACA program was formed through executive order by former President Barack Obama in 2012 and allowed certain people, called Dreamers, who came to the U.S. illegally as minors to be protected from immediate deportation. Recipients were able to request “consideration of deferred action” for a period of two years, which is subject to renewal.”

“Individuals also had to have a high school diploma, GED certification, been honorably discharged from the military or still be in school. Recipients could not have a criminal record. It does not provide legal status”


Not a real law, just one of those circumvential exec orders.

A temporary stay of deportation.

At some point, you have to go back and tag up.

Time for these nice visitors and their kids to go home.

They are welcome to apply for legal status at any port of entry.

No, they don't have to go back and the American public has soundly spoken and said they don't want them to go back.

Perhaps you can list a single reason why they should go back, no one else has been able to do that so far.

 

[PollDancer]

No, they don't have to go back and the American public has soundly spoken and said they don't want them to go back.

Perhaps you can list a single reason why they should go back, no one else has been able to do that so far.

A temporary deferrment of deportation is either temporary or the Exec Order was a scam.

So you saying they dont have to go back is a nice sentiment but thats all it is, a sentimental opinion.

They should go outside the USA and apply for legal entry, because they and or their parents entered illegally. That’s the way it works.

DACA is two wrongs make a right thinking, authorized by a piece of paper signed to bypass the Congress.

Alternative? If you can get to the USA, even illegally, you can stay. Throw open the doors, we dont need no stinkin laws! Free guns for all illegals to level the field!

DACA was a well intentioned rainbow and unicorns mistake; time to fix it.

 

[Rightguide]

You've stated several times you don't believe in the rule of law. Just look at when a judge makes a ruling that you don't like.

Laws are changed all the time, some of them for the better or worse. 60 or so years ago the country had Jim Crow laws, are you really saying you would follow Jim Crow laws just because they existed?

You don't now what your talking about. The California federal Judge William Alsup is wildly political and legally incompetent. He was just recently shot down 9-0 by the SCOTUS in his demand for all Executive Branch documents concerning Daca.

Next for the first time in the history of our jurisprudence he, a federal judge, filed his own brief in the government's appeal to his ruling. Show me where the rules of the SCOTUS ever permitted such nonsense.

This man is a political judge making political decisions about how the President exercises his his own discretion. He will be rebuffed again by the SCOTUS. You can educate yourself on the subject here:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455305/daca-court-ruling-trump-cant-end-daca

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

You don't now what your talking about. The California federal Judge William Alsup is wildly political and legally incompetent. He was just recently shot down 9-0 by the SCOTUS in his demand for all Executive Branch documents concerning Daca.

Next for the first time in the history of our jurisprudence he, a federal judge, filed his own brief in the government's appeal to his ruling. Show me where the rules of the SCOTUS ever permitted such nonsense.

This man is a political judge making political decisions about how the President exercises his his own discretion. He will be rebuffed again by the SCOTUS. You can educate yourself on the subject here:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455305/daca-court-ruling-trump-cant-end-daca

Thank you. I could not have asked for more conclusive proof that I was correct.

 

[Rightguide]

Thank you. I could not have asked for more conclusive proof that I was correct.

You're delusional, uneducated, dishonest, and you lack critical reading skills.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

A temporary deferrment of deportation is either temporary or the Exec Order was a scam.

So you saying they dont have to go back is a nice sentiment but thats all it is, a sentimental opinion.

They should go outside the USA and apply for legal entry, because they and or their parents entered illegally. That’s the way it works.

DACA is two wrongs make a right thinking, authorized by a piece of paper signed to bypass the Congress.

Alternative? If you can get to the USA, even illegally, you can stay. Throw open the doors, we dont need no stinkin laws! Free guns for all illegals to level the field!

DACA was a well intentioned rainbow and unicorns mistake; time to fix it.

I and the majority of America prefer the third option and that is letting Dreamers stay and granting them full citizenship since the majority of them have committed no wrong.

No one is advocating throwing the doors open.

Let me know if you do come up with a reason to kick the Dreamers out.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

You don't now what your talking about. The California federal Judge William Alsup is wildly political and legally incompetent. He was just recently shot down 9-0 by the SCOTUS in his demand for all Executive Branch documents concerning Daca.

Next for the first time in the history of our jurisprudence he, a federal judge, filed his own brief in the government's appeal to his ruling. Show me where the rules of the SCOTUS ever permitted such nonsense.

This man is a political judge making political decisions about how the President exercises his his own discretion. He will be rebuffed again by the SCOTUS. You can educate yourself on the subject here:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455305/daca-court-ruling-trump-cant-end-daca

You're delusional, uneducated, dishonest, and you lack critical reading skills.

And to further prove my point you've been reduced to name calling.

You originally claimed that Americans want the law followed, yet here you are saying a judge is "legally incompetent" when that judge has been legally placed on the bench.

You're not able to come up with a single valid reason to kick out the Dreamers and the only reason you want them out is because you don't like people who aren't white.

 

[FGB]

SHUT it DOWN!

People will know who did it and why...and remember!

 

[Rightguide]

SHUT it DOWN!

People will know who did it and why...and remember!

Biggest secret in America is nobody will know it's shut down.

 

[Rightguide]

And to further prove my point you've been reduced to name calling.

You originally claimed that Americans want the law followed, yet here you are saying a judge is "legally incompetent" when that judge has been legally placed on the bench.

You're not able to come up with a single valid reason to kick out the Dreamers and the only reason you want them out is because you don't like people who aren't white.

Because the "judge" is not employed to decide political questions or control the discretionary powers of the President. Google "SCOTUS Political question doctrine." Read it and shut up.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Because the "judge" is not employed to decide political questions or control the discretionary powers of the President. Google "SCOTUS Political question doctrine." Read it and shut up.

The judge is employed to determine what the law says.

 

[FGB]

I think Trump is thinking and rightly so, that Congress might get of their collective asses and FIX the fucking problem with some LAW that will make most everyone happy!

A novel approach I know.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I think Trump is thinking and rightly so, that Congress might get of their collective asses and FIX the fucking problem with some LAW that will make most everyone happy!

A novel approach I know.

That's an outdated idea. An election has to be won and the Democrats cannot walk into it saying that they worked with President Trump to solve the problem, they want to say that his failure to capitulate to all of their demands with no compromise on their part is the reason that nothing is getting done. They want amnesty, no wall, no funding for border security, sanctuary and Federal money to subsidize the influx of new de facto citizens. That is their bottom line and they will shut down the government to achieve that happy circumstance.

Of course, I'm one of those who think, fuck it if it shuts down. Maybe it will leave me alone.

 

[Que]

The judge is employed to determine what the law says.

What law? Federal law begins as a house bill then has to be also passed by the Senate and signed by the President. None of that happened.

Laws have actual statute numbers. There is no statute number for DACA because it is not a law.

 

[PollDancer]

I and the majority of America prefer the third option and that is letting Dreamers stay and granting them full citizenship since the majority of them have committed no wrong.

No one is advocating throwing the doors open.

Let me know if you do come up with a reason to kick the Dreamers out.

They’re here illegally.

 

[Que]

They’re here illegally.

. . And being given preferential treatment in Academia in order for them to qualify as dreamers. Competing with actual legal citizens for slots in Academia.

Just the sort of thing that got Trump elected.

 

[PollDancer]

Whatever. They’re illegals subject to deportation.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Why do you hate "diversity?"

 

[PollDancer]

Why do you hate "diversity?"

When did you stop beating your wife?

 

[WoundedKnee]

So, do their parents get to stay? Do they get to bring in grams and gramps? Uncles and aunts? Siblings left behind? In-laws? and once the chain begins, where does it end? The Democrats want the chain to be unbroken. What this results in is adults taking their children through the dangers of the desert just to get that anchor locked in for the extended family. So, in the name of compassion, we put children's lives at risk so that they can be used as tools and with the Democrat intransigence on border security of any rational method, as soon as one amnesty is instituted, parents will get the message and continue to trek into the desert with their children in the hopes of winning the lottery. And, of course, this is in no part the fault of the children, it is the fault of our Liberals that they so want diversity that they will reward illegals for child endangerment.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I thought travel and learning new languages was to be "educated." It's not like they have been brought here from shithole countries. After all, aren't we the shithole country for electing Trump President? Doesn't he prove it by asking the Democrats to compromise? To keep the Dreamers in exchange for an end to chain migration and enhanced border security? I mean the balls of this guy, who, as we all know from the press conference yesterday, is clinically insane and about to keel over...