Government shutdown over illegals?

[bellisarius]

Oh, it wasn't my question. If you don't want to kick them out, let's not.

I see it hurting the republican party. No one wants to kick out the DACA people, like you said, even Trump doesn't want to kick them out.

OK, an honest answer. I disagree. Fully 70% of the CA population want nothing to do with "sanctuary cities", let alone states. (as per a UC Berkley poll (Berkley???)) The nation as a whole is fed up with the illegal immigration bull shit.

Be that as it may, the democrats don't have the will to keep the government shut down until the mid-term election cycle truly kicks in and Trump isn't going to cave. They are playing politics as usual and Trump isn't a politician.

Moving along, hare are the DACA requirements as written by the Obama administration

Guidelines

You may request DACA if you:

1. Were under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012;

2. Came to the United States before reaching your 16th birthday;

3. Have continuously resided in the United States since June 15, 2007, up to the present time;

4. Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making your request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;

5. Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012;

6. Are currently in school, have graduated or obtained a certificate of completion from high school, have obtained a general education development (GED) certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States;

and

7. Have not been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor, or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety.

Here's the full test of the reg.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Hypoxia]

How many of Obama's executive orders were NOT challenged in court?

Here ya go mental midget.

Not an answer.
You are deflecting.
Yawn.

Let's expand the question. For each president since, oh, let's say Reagan, how many executive orders have been 1) issued, 2) challenged in court, 3) stayed, 4) overturned, and 5) upheld. Perhaps your gargling skills will uncover statistics.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

OK, an honest answer. I disagree. Fully 70% of the CA population want nothing to do with "sanctuary cities", let alone states. (as per a UC Berkley poll (Berkley???)) The nation as a whole is fed up with the illegal immigration bull shit.

Be that as it may, the democrats don't have the will to keep the government shut down until the mid-term election cycle truly kicks in and Trump isn't going to cave. They are playing politics as usual and Trump isn't a politician.

Moving along, hare are the DACA requirements as written by the Obama administration




Here's the full test of the reg.

Sounds reasonable to me.

According to a POLITICO poll 73% of Americans want legislation protecting Dreamers.

 

[Luk]

According to a POLITICO poll 73% of Americans want legislation protecting Dreamers.

Hey, 27% of the time Ish is right all of the time.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

OK, an honest answer. I disagree. Fully 70% of the CA population want nothing to do with "sanctuary cities", let alone states. (as per a UC Berkley poll (Berkley???)) The nation as a whole is fed up with the illegal immigration bull shit.

Be that as it may, the democrats don't have the will to keep the government shut down until the mid-term election cycle truly kicks in and Trump isn't going to cave. They are playing politics as usual and Trump isn't a politician.

Moving along, hare are the DACA requirements as written by the Obama administration




Here's the full test of the reg.

Sounds reasonable to me.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/Graph_ViewsOnImmigration.jpg

 

[bellisarius]

According to a POLITICO poll 73% of Americans want legislation protecting Dreamers.

According to Politico 73% of Americans favor Communism. I'll stick with the Berkley poll. Regardless, both Trump and myself favor letting the DACA crowd stay, as long as they meet the guidelines.

But that isn't the issue here, they're just pawns in a bigger game.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

According to Politico 73% of Americans favor Communism. I'll stick with the Berkley poll. Regardless, both Trump and myself favor letting the DACA crowd stay, as long as they meet the guidelines.

But that isn't the issue here, they're just pawns in a bigger game.

I'll go ahead and point out that you brought up DACA and now that you see the American public favors it you're claiming it's not the issue.

 

[Luk]

According to Politico 73% of Americans favor Communism. I'll stick with the Berkley poll. Regardless, both Trump and myself favor letting the DACA crowd stay, as long as they meet the guidelines.

But that isn't the issue here, they're just pawns in a bigger game.

Kids, stay in school, listen to your parents, and don't do meth. Unless you would like to have the brain power on par with the current idiot in the White House.

 

[bellisarius]

I'll go ahead and point out that you brought up DACA and now that you see the American public favors it you're claiming it's not the issue.

I also see that the public favors enhanced border security and employment verification, by large numbers.

 

[Rightguide]

According to Politico 73% of Americans favor Communism. I'll stick with the Berkley poll. Regardless, both Trump and myself favor letting the DACA crowd stay, as long as they meet the guidelines.

But that isn't the issue here, they're just pawns in a bigger game.

The bigger game being sustaining the Democrat Party in future elections.

 

[bellisarius]

I'll go ahead and point out that you brought up DACA and now that you see the American public favors it you're claiming it's not the issue.

I also see that the public favors enhanced border security and employment verification, by large numbers.

You know that you're making Trumps case for him here?

 

[bellisarius]

The bigger game being sustaining the Democrat Party in future elections.

That's what the memo says.

Have you noticed some of the followers in this thread, and others, that are like the weird kid down the block that would shit their own pants on a dare just to get some attention?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I also see that the public favors enhanced border security and employment verification, by large numbers.

So am I. Let's make sure employers who hire illegals face stiff financial consequences. I don't recall Trump addressing this on the campaign trail or ever since.

I also have no problem with more personnel on the border. Trump did talk about this on the campaign trail. Have we hired more personnel?

 

[Rightguide]

I'll go ahead and point out that you brought up DACA and now that you see the American public favors it you're claiming it's not the issue.

Most Americans believe in the rule of law and that means enforcing the existing "law." Obama's unconstitutional DACA EO isn't the law. When Congress passes a real law it will be enforced, until then the existing law will be enforced.

 

[bellisarius]

So am I. Let's make sure employers who hire illegals face stiff financial consequences. I don't recall Trump addressing this on the campaign trail or ever since.

I also have no problem with more personnel on the border. Trump did talk about this on the campaign trail. Have we hired more personnel?

Quite frankly I'd like to see them face felony charges. That being said, laws are on the books, just comes down to enforcement and that's kicking in as we type.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Most Americans believe in the rule of law and that means enforcing the existing "law." Obama's unconstitutional DACA EO isn't the law. When Congress passes a real law it will be enforced, until then the existing law will be enforced.

You've stated several times you don't believe in the rule of law. Just look at when a judge makes a ruling that you don't like.

Laws are changed all the time, some of them for the better or worse. 60 or so years ago the country had Jim Crow laws, are you really saying you would follow Jim Crow laws just because they existed?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Quite frankly I'd like to see them face felony charges. That being said, laws are on the books, just comes down to enforcement and that's kicking in as we type.

The fines associated with the laws on the books may not be severe enough. There's a (R) in the White House and they control the legislative branch, an overwhelming majority of the public want it, there should be no hold up.

 

[Luk]

Quite frankly I'd like to see them face felony charges. That being said, laws are on the books, just comes down to enforcement and that's kicking in as we type.

They should absolutely be penalized to the point of 100% compliance is instilled. Felony just means more taxpayer dollars so that's incredibly dumb idea.

The fines associated with the laws on the books may not be severe enough. There's a (R) in the White House and they control the legislative branch, an overwhelming majority of the public want it, there should be no hold up.

All of their whining while in control of everything is very unmanly.

 

[bellisarius]

The fines associated with the laws on the books may not be severe enough. There's a (R) in the White House and they control the legislative branch, an overwhelming majority of the public want it, there should be no hold up.

Ya know, you can only fight so many battles at a time and what you're proposing is going to take an act of congress. Make no mistake, I agree with your goal, assuming you're sincere. But what is on the table is a big step in that direction.

Back to the rules of the senate, it would take 60 votes. On that initiative the R's are far from 'in control.' Further there is a R component that are still slaved to the notion of low wages. (A shit pot full of D's too.) A political paradigm long overdue for re-evaluation.

 

[Comshaw]

I can't wait to see how that strategy works out for the democrats. Are they caucusing in an echo chamber?

They can have their DACA 'free pass' if that's what they truly wanted. Trump is willing to give it up under the same rules that Obama put in place. So what's the problem?

Apparently the problem is that the democrats are going to fight to the bitter end to sustain the flow of illegals across our borders. The uneducated, unhealthy, and unskilled are more important to them than the citizen. It's hard to come to any other conclusion based on their behavior. They haven't even offered up any alternatives or points of negotiation re. Trumps demands.

So it appears that there is a growing faction within the democrat party to shut down the government over the issue, DACA being their 'talking point.' They're leaving themselves wide open to a broadside in retaliation.

What surprises me is that the congressional black caucus is going along with this. Yeah, they hate Trump and think he's a racist. But that's a visceral reaction and not well thought out. Exactly whose jobs are those illegals taking? Unskilled and semi-skilled blue collar work. Precisely the jobs that black american's once had to use to propel the next generation further up the ladder. The latino's are no friends of the american black. They are merely a useful tool in the short term.

Back in the late 60's, early 70's there were a couple of riots in Miami's black communities. The match that lit the flame was police activity, but the big pile of fuel that was piling up to be burned had other causes. Namely the large influx of Cuban refugee's in the early 60's. They slowly took all the jobs that were once done by the black community. Construction, small business, home cleaning services, yard work. The Cubans worked hard and for less money. Once the Cubans reached a certain threshold the blacks that applied for jobs were turned away, "tu no habla Espanol." Considering that the Cubans are for a large part of mixed race it became obvious that cultural background and language trumped (no pun intended) any racial or minority solidarity. So the Cubans worked their ass off and THEIR children went to college.

That very same pattern is repeating itself everywhere the immigrants, legal and illegal, settle in and reach a critical mass. (I readily admit I don't know what that critical mass is, just know it's there.) With regard to this shutdown idea it's only a matter of time before some smart republican snaps to this fact and points it out to the black community and this proposed shutdown represents as good an opportunity as any.

For those of you who think the DACA argument is about illegal aliens, about immigration and allowing those who come over the border in the dark of night a pass to stay, it isn't. It's more about the character of our country and whether or not we as a nation have any honor or will stand by a promise made.

We haven't in the past, not by a long damn site. Ask any First Nation. Ask them about treaties made and broken. The Cherokee Tribe and their land on the eastern seaboard, The Sioux and the Black Hills, The Apache and their lands in the south west, the Comanche and their lands in Texas, the Chinook nations and their rights to hunt whales and fish. Promises made and promises broken.

So now we have the DACA immigrants. They were brought here as children without their permission. They grew up and became a contributing part of American society, so much so some know and speak only English.

Because they were involuntarily brought here, because they grew up as we did, as Americans, with the same love of country, the same pride in living here, missing only the official stamp of citizenship, they were made a promise: You will not be sent away even if you are not a citizen.

And now, rather then try to find a path for them to citizenship, rather then live up to our promise, we are threatening them with deportation. Does our word mean nothing? Are or promises still as hollow as they were when we broke all those treaties with the First Nations?

I know there are those here who will say it doesn't matter, that the promise wasn't made by their side. But it does. The promise was made by my government, my country and I am part of that. As such we need to stand up and do what we swore we would. After what we did to our own, after all the lies and broken promises, it's time to stop and do the right thing. Do what we promised we would do.


Comshaw

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Ya know, you can only fight so many battles at a time and what you're proposing is going to take an act of congress. Make no mistake, I agree with your goal, assuming you're sincere. But what is on the table is a big step in that direction.

Back to the rules of the senate, it would take 60 votes. On that initiative the R's are far from 'in control.' Further there is a R component that are still slaved to the notion of low wages. (A shit pot full of D's too.) A political paradigm long overdue for re-evaluation.

I'm not seeing this as a fight, I'm seeing it as a slam dunk. I don't think you're suggesting that democrats would hesitate to slap new rules on businesses that increase how much money the government has to spend.

 

[bellisarius]

They should absolutely be penalized to the point of 100% compliance is instilled. Felony just means more taxpayer dollars so that's incredibly dumb idea.



All of their whining while in control of everything is very unmanly.

Starting with the emboldened. Got to give you credit PenisGazer, you actually addressed a subject and followed through with a thought. Cud-dos to you on that. The problem is that misdemeanors don't work. The little guys close up the current shop and open a new one. The big guys hide behind sub-contractors. "Not my fault." eVerify will cut most of that shit out, making it a felony will take care of the rest. For example, if a corporation is shown to be consistently using contractors (they make sure they don't do it themselves so they do an 'arms length' deal) that hire illegals, well, let's just pop them up into a new tax bracket. And incrementally increase the base tax on offenses, after all we can't put a corporation in prison (sadly). That's quite doable, taxation based on criminal violation status. (That should tickle the shit out of the anti-business, 'social justice' crowd.)

As for the rest? You just can't he'p yourself can ya?

 

[Luk]

Starting with the emboldened. Got to give you credit PenisGazer, you actually addressed a subject and followed through with a thought. Cud-dos to you on that. The problem is that misdemeanors don't work. The little guys close up the current shop and open a new one. The big guys hide behind sub-contractors. "Not my fault." eVerify will cut most of that shit out, making it a felony will take care of the rest. For example, if a corporation is shown to be consistently using contractors (they make sure they don't do it themselves so they do an 'arms length' deal) that hire illegals, well, let's just pop them up into a new tax bracket. And incrementally increase the base tax on offenses, after all we can't put a corporation in prison (sadly). That's quite doable, taxation based on criminal violation status. (That should tickle the shit out of the anti-business, 'social justice' crowd.)

As for the rest? You just can't he'p yourself can ya?

Tell ya what, Ish. Quit making vanity threads for me and I'll stop making you look ridiculous in front of your friends.

And I didn't say anything about misdemeanors, did I? And the big guys should be held accountable for every sub that they contract with. It's a fucking contract. And you would mistakenly call me a "SJW" but I actually agree with you on the point about fucking with the offender's tax base.

See? There are things we can agree on - occasionally.

 

[bellisarius]

Tell ya what, Ish. Quit making vanity threads for me and I'll stop making you look ridiculous in front of your friends.

And I didn't say anything about misdemeanors, did I? And the big guys should be held accountable for every sub that they contract with. It's a fucking contract. And you would mistakenly call me a "SJW" but I actually agree with you on the point about fucking with the offender's tax base.

See? There are things we can agree on - occasionally.

LMAO You sound more and more like LT as the years fly by.

You didn't have to, that's what the law is as it exists today. Actually I would have been shocked if you disagreed with my taxation idea. Well, not shocked. I would have had a lot of fun if you had though.

 

[Luk]

LMAO You sound more and more like LT as the years fly by.

You didn't have to, that's what the law is as it exists today. Actually I would have been shocked if you disagreed with my taxation idea. Well, not shocked. I would have had a lot of fun if you had though.

Who do you sound like when you make a dozen vanity threads for another man spanning a decade?

Obsessed?
Neurotic?
Stalkerish?

And the tax thing could work until they are unable to pay and have to close shop. That will get the legal employees in line, real quick.