Politics and Porn

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Nezhul]

You've completely misunderstood the premise of what she and everybody else is saying. Nobody here that I've seen has even tacitly implied that women should be afraid of men as an entire demographic. I have no idea where you or Nehzul are getting these things from.

Well I didn't say that, did I?

People here say that all women all around the world get scared when a man approaches them on the street, because they are nervous to be assaulted and raped right on the spot (because this obviously happens to the majority of women, so they all get edgy).
And I'm arguing this is bullshit, really.

I stand by that. Never did we discuss that all men are scary, at least I didn't.

 

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[Nezhul]

you are right, you are always right. There is nothing to be learnt from other people ever. Nope.

didn't say that either.

In fact, the ones who are very and totally right here are Kim and B-n for their own admission of being near experts on the topic. They definitely can't learn anything from a pleb like me.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm laughing out loud, but not in a good way.

If swapping a gender wholesale for a religion within the back-end of this thread magically perverts the meaning into something darker, offensive and unacceptable, then maybe...

...the original Kim Gordon premise was offensive and unacceptable.

...or maybe the context doesn't actually work the same when you swap "men" for "Muslim".

Since you're still interested in this comparison, okay, let's talk about Islamophobia for a moment.

In my experience (and I thought I'd seen a study supporting this, but can't dig it up right now), Islamophobia tends to be highest in areas where people have the least interaction with actual RL Muslims and would have the least to fear from any Islamic terror threat. Those who actually live and work with Muslims understand that they're human beings and mostly nice people, same as anybody else.

So it comes down to those least affected by the issue trying to tell those most affected by the issue how they ought to feel about it.

That is the parallel with men telling women how they ought to feel about being approached by a strange man.

The world we live in is fast changing into a more hateful and dangerous place - maybe more helpful to offer solutions than join the queue to hate something.

Okay, I'll offer a solution:

When lots of women say that men doing a thing makes them uncomfortable, accept that this is true and don't do the thing. Don't try to talk them out of it, don't nag them about how much it hurts your feelings that they're uncomfortable or tell them about This One Girl You Know who's totally okay with it... just don't do the thing.

Telling women that they're wrong to feel this way is an anti-solution: it merely reinforces a woman's worry that you might be the sort of guy who doesn't respect her right to set boundaries.

For bonus points, make sure your guy friends understand this too.

If you follow that advice, I guarantee that you are helping to make the world a gentler and safer place.

 

[Bramblethorn]

didn't say that either.

In fact, the ones who are very and totally right here are Kim and B-n for their own admission of being near experts on the topic. They definitely can't learn anything from a pleb like me.

From you? No. But I've learned plenty about this issue by listening to women, who are actually in a position to know about it.

BTW, didn't you just say "end of discussion" with Kim a few hours ago? And now you're trying to drag her back into it.

 

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[Nezhul]

Gianbattista
I don't actually see a post where I refused your position or experience. Or KimGordon's. I refuse to listen to B-thorn if only because he's bullshitting more than he actually says something worthwhile.

I acknowledged your position long ago. That in your countries the situation with molesting and sexual assault is so bad that most women would feel creeped out and insecure if approached on the street.

But if you are telling me that your position is that EVERYWHERE that's the case, then I will argue.
KimGorgon's position is just this. Bramblethorn's is also. They have their reality and they extrapolate it to the rest of the world because they obviously have heaps of experience.
I reject only the notion of them knowing the ultimate truth because many (which is, like, four) women commented in this thread with similar views.

And I don't drag Kim back here. I said I've stopped arguing with her. I never said I'm ignoring her or her previous posts. I'm just not going to argue with a person who thinks she's so damn smart and knowlegeable that others need to accept her point of view and listen to her opinion unquestionably and unconditionally.

 

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[Pockle]

You've completely misunderstood the premise of what she and everybody else is saying. Nobody here that I've seen has even tacitly implied that women should be afraid of men as an entire demographic. I have no idea where you or Nehzul are getting these things from.

This is where it came from:

I told you every single woman I know works on the basis of engaging in risk assessment every time a random guy approaches you. Every. Single. One of them. And I know a fair few women. Why don't we trust that what they all do is, in fact, how many women react to this stuff (except, apparently, the ones in Russia for some reason that you probably know better than me). There's a whole online 'movement' dedicated to explaining to men how telling us we're pretty when you don't know us doesn't really do a whole for us (except, apparently, in Russia). Why do you find this so difficult to believe?

Strange guys approaching us freaks most of us out. There's so much evidence to supports this, it's ridiculous. If you truly love women as much as you say you do, just smile at them ... we can pretty much mostly handle that. Anything else is a potential risk as far as we're concerned, so it would be awesome if you could keep your thoughts about people's prettiness to yourself.

The emboldened is a pretty damning statement. Quite frankly I don't understand how anyone could live with that (apparent) level of constant paranoia.

 

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[Nezhul]

Honestly; it doesn't mean all men are rapists. It means any situation needs assessment.

Well, Bramblethorn here implies that women get freaked out so badly by approaching men that you should never ever subject them to such horror if you like them at all.

Which is kinda stupid, you know. And now you say that risk is often deemed minimal, which means you will not, actually, freak out so badly as for such approach to become terrible and harming experience for you.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Nezhul]

This video, made by none of here that I know, . Is well
Known.

Does it seem like other women favour the on street approach from this? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ment-comeback-Twitter-video/amp?client=safari

All I can say - none of those morons actually know how to approach a girl properly. Yeah, that is freaky.
And while I saw things like that, that's not actually normal here to start a conversation like that. Like any of those guys.

Maybe that's the problem? Not an approach itself, but that it's actually a cat-calling rather than an approach?

 

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[Nezhul]

I have read nothing of this

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1399465

But it does not seem to endorse a claim of an environment where women can feel freedom from fear of a culture of assault. I am not going to make a judgement based on a GBnpist, but thought the timing was funny.

This law was made because a slap or a shove could land a person in prison for several years, even if the victim pledged to let him/her go.

You have an argument that gets too heated up - you can go to prison if your neighbors report something.
You spank your child for stealing - you can go to prison.

It was an oversight in the previous law that ruined multiple families - literally ruined the lives of people.

Do you think a child is happier or more protected if dad goes to prison for 3 years? Do you think he has a better life?

And by the way, if the wife would hit a man - same happens. It's not tied to the sex of the victim.

What I think? I think laws are tricky But I think punishment should match the deed, and it definitely did not.

Slapping your wife was a criminal offence before, and could get people in prison.
Now it is an administrative offence - and you will have to pay fine for that, but you can't go to prison.
If there are so much as bruises - it is still a criminal offence. You can slap someone, and end up with a fine. You can't beat someone up and walk away.

Now tell me this change was a bad one. Tell me it creates an environment for the abuse of women. How did you call that? A culture of assault? Yeah, right.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The emboldened is a pretty damning statement. Quite frankly I don't understand how anyone could live with that (apparent) level of constant paranoia.

Then be grateful that you don't have to, and perhaps focus on ways to support those who do rather than assuming it can't be true?

 

[Bramblethorn]

And by the way, if the wife would hit a man - same happens. It's not tied to the sex of the victim.

"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." - Anatole France.

 

[Nezhul]

Another pointless post, Bramblethorn.

You are saying now that women never assault and hit men? Or what? What's the point?

No. Your post is there just to look smart.

 

[PapaRomantic]

I have been watching this argument from a distance for a while, but I can no longer stay silent. When I learned to drive, the teachers in our class taught us to be a "defensive driver," meaning that you had to treat EVERY OTHER VEHICLE as the one that could potentially take your life, and then be ready to take precautions so that didn't happen, i.e. provide yourself with safe "exits" for any potential situation, realizing that unfortunately, a safe exit was not always available.

My wife and I raised four daughters; we told them the same things that are being said on this thread - you must protect yourself from everyone, and that means expecting that the behavior of boys their age wasn't always appropriate, and in fact could be dangerous. It was not a lesson for just a few years - it needed to be a standard by which they carried themselves going on in life. Now that they are grown and out of my house, it doesn't mean the risk they face is any less than when they lived at home.

A friend of mine sent me a link that describes exactly what the fear is. Nezhul, I hope you read it word for word, in the understanding of the mother who fears for her daughter as she heads into puberty. Then tell me how this mother is all wrong, and she's making a big deal out of nothing.

http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/...lise-our-young-daughters-20170201-gu2z5b.html

I used to think the greatest threat my daughters faced was the males who might approach them with dangerous thoughts on their mind. Now I'm thinking it's guys like you who believe that we are sensationalizing the threat women face in society everywhere - including in Russia.

 

[Blue]

The reason this is being dragged out for song long is due to Nehzul and Pockle fabricating a strawman in their heads wherein the rest of you are saying that the west is such a backwards hellhole that women need to live in constant paranoia of being assaulted in public, even in a busy street. Which is the worldview they're trying to argue against, so this is going nowhere.

Actual argument:
*[Most?] women get approached by strange men in public at some point/s in their lives.
*It can lead to a very uncomfortable/hostile situation.
*Women don't like that.

Although at the beginning Nehzul was actually arguing against the claim that women don't generally dislike such encounters.
Just a reminder.