Keeping Carrier in the USA

[Magnetron]

Well isn't that a deeply perceptive analysis

You have to keep the issues simple for all the partisan hacksmiths around here.

Otherwise is becomes Lib Lib Libbie this or ..... well ......

Company give smaller bonuses to "upper management". Can afford continued production in 'Merica. U.S. workers keep job. CEOs and such can still afford jet skis, in ground pools and Lexus.

People here needlessly complicate the issues.

 

[water505]

There is no I in team.

There are plenty of I's in Carrier.

It is a major reason for U.S. losing jobs.

And there is only one "u" in stupid.

 

[water505]

You have to keep the issues simple for all the partisan hacksmiths around here.

Otherwise is becomes Lib Lib Libbie this or ..... well ......

Company give smaller bonuses to "upper management". Can afford continued production in 'Merica. U.S. workers keep job. CEOs and such can still afford jet skis, in ground pools and Lexus.

People here needlessly complicate the issues.

Your grammar and business knowledge are both at the fourth grade level.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You have to keep the issues simple for all the partisan hacksmiths around here.

Otherwise is becomes Lib Lib Libbie this or ..... well ......

Company give smaller bonuses to "upper management". Can afford continued production in 'Merica. U.S. workers keep job. CEOs and such can still afford jet skis, in ground pools and Lexus.

People here needlessly complicate the issues.

Are you ready to talk to us about profit margin and percentages?

Most people consumed with economic envy always leave out these factors.

What is the profit margin of the company, what is the percentage payed to workers, what is the percentage of overall performance engineered by the execs and did the investors reward them or move their money?

Furthermore, have you ever worked for an employer that you knew was exploiting you? Did you stay? It is a contract that can be terminated by the worker at any time. Do I care, do you care, that the executive of a product that I desire gets x number of dollars if the price we agree to pay is acceptable and if the wage required to produce it was acceptable to the employee?

Do you wish to be that person who advocates that his government set the terms of pay for employers? What other price controls would you advocate for? Would you set profit margins? I've heard recently the term Fascist being bandied about as it concerns Trump, but maybe we should examine who else might be comfortable with Nixonian Fascism...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Your grammar and business knowledge are both at the fourth grade level.

Never a sufficient response.

Be better.

 

[water505]

Never a sufficient response.

Be better.

He has excellent grammatical skills and a strong grasp of the business world. Now you can turn that frown upside down.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

He has excellent grammatical skills and a strong grasp of the business world. Now you can turn that frown upside down.

I didn't say, or imply that.

I learned this as an instructor; it is not sufficient to tell someone that they are wrong (as in technique) but you must be able to analyze and explain. It is in this process that the student can teach the teacher and that there can be a meeting of the minds and a sharing of knowledge.

The Democrats are on a losing streak election-wise based upon the yelling of "you're stupid' and 'you're a racist.' If you are on the side of the Republican effort now, then if you wish to hold your gain, you must be better in every aspect, in every way and every day.

 

[Magnetron]

Solution: Don't reward greed.

Let Carrier relocate. Help ALL the workers find alternative employment.

Give them the option of forming their own employee owned business, which can immediately afford to start them at higher wages. Examples of these already exist in Illinois and Wisconsin.

Find the movie New In Town on Netflix or wherever, watch and learn how it can be done.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Solution: Don't reward greed.

Let Carrier relocate. Help ALL the workers find alternative employment.

Give them the option of forming their own employee owned business, which can immediately afford to start them at higher wages. Examples of these already exist in Illinois and Wisconsin.

Find the movie New In Town on Netflix or wherever, watch and learn how it can be done.

Okay. I get it, I think.

Carrier was greedy? Let them "ship jobs."

I'm supposed to have a better plan. I do, the problem is, that like Trump, I don't think you will like it.

The first step is to end the punitive myth that corporations can be taxed (on profits). They cannot. They do not operate on profits, they operate on profit margins. Any tax cost (or any executive pay cost) is not passed on the the workers, but to the consumers. The best alternative is the FairTax.org, imho.

The alternative you seem to be in favor of, and correct me if I am wrong, is that instead of answering to the shareholders, these corporations should answer to the mob and accede to their idea of "fair pay for executives."

How in the ****** is that supposed to keep these companies, and their jobs, in the US???

 

[Conager]

Solution: Don't reward greed.

Let Carrier relocate. Help ALL the workers find alternative employment.

Give them the option of forming their own employee owned business, which can immediately afford to start them at higher wages. Examples of these already exist in Illinois and Wisconsin.

Find the movie New In Town on Netflix or wherever, watch and learn how it can be done.

No new business can "immediately afford" anything. Any money they have to start with it's going to be the amount that Venture capitalists choose to advance them in furtherance of starting the business. And no Venture capitalists are interested in starting a business for the purpose of babysitting employees.

it's not called greed it's called enlightened self-interest. And it's what capitalism does best. You don't like it move to Venezuela.

If any of these ideas were any good why didn't you try to advance them when you elected a socialist to the White House and had Democrats holding both the Senate and the house. No instead you decided to do a really really complicated Medicaid expansion. Something I could have done with one sheet of paper and boatloads of federal money.

You idiots had your chance, you blew it. We're going to try capitalism now.

 

[Magnetron]

The present course of action is rewarding greed while doing nothing to help the hundreds of workers that Carrier IS laying off and millions in tax revenue will be lost in the process.

That is just stooopid.

 

[Magnetron]

Okay. I get it, I think.

Carrier was greedy? Let them "ship jobs."

I'm supposed to have a better plan. I do, the problem is, that like Trump, I don't think you will like it.

The first step is to end the punitive myth that corporations can be taxed (on profits). They cannot. They do not operate on profits, they operate on profit margins. Any tax cost (or any executive pay cost) is not passed on the the workers, but to the consumers. The best alternative is the FairTax.org, imho.

The alternative you seem to be in favor of, and correct me if I am wrong, is that instead of answering to the shareholders, these corporations should answer to the mob and accede to their idea of "fair pay for executives."

How in the ****** is that supposed to keep these companies, and their jobs, in the US???

I think you missed the part where I said to let Carrier relocate and continue doing its business as usual.

 

[Magnetron]

No new business can "immediately afford" anything. Any money they have to start with it's going to be the amount that Venture capitalists choose to advance them in furtherance of starting the business. And no Venture capitalists are interested in starting a business for the purpose of babysitting employees.

it's not called greed it's called enlightened self-interest. And it's what capitalism does best. You don't like it move to Venezuela.

If any of these ideas were any good why didn't you try to advance them when you elected a socialist to the White House and had Democrats holding both the Senate and the house. No instead you decided to do a really really complicated Medicaid expansion. Something I could have done with one sheet of paper and boatloads of federal money.

You idiots had your chance, you blew it. We're going to try capitalism now.

Yawn.

Think outside the box.

 

[Conager]

The present course of action is rewarding greed while doing nothing to help the hundreds of workers that Carrier IS laying off and millions in tax revenue will be lost in the process.

That is just stooopid.

Idiot.

I'm not a big fan of government picking winners and losers and these various tax holidays for individual businesses. lower it for everyone. Here's an idea have government spends less.

but you're absolutely wrong about this deal causing them to lose tax revenue. You can't gain revenue from a business that's left town. That's the point called half a loaf they're still going to get some Revenue just not the amount they would have.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The present course of action is rewarding greed while doing nothing to help the hundreds of workers that Carrier IS laying off and millions in tax revenue will be lost in the process.

That is just stooopid.

Well, this is a statement, I'll give you that, but without further elaboration, I do not understand where you are coming from with this "rewarding greed" even though I have mightily strived to find common ground upon definition in this 'discussion.'

Would you forbid them laying off workers? Would you legislate that those jobs must remain even if it means the company goes belly-up losing even more tax revenue?

Are you going to sit on the border with a shotgun on the lookout for jobs illegally trying to leave the country?

 

[Magnetron]

Idiot.

I'm not a big fan of government picking winners and losers and these various tax holidays for individual businesses. lower it for everyone. Here's an idea have government spends less.

but you're absolutely wrong about this deal causing them to lose tax revenue. You can't gain revenue from a business that's left town. That's the point called half a loaf they're still going to get some Revenue just not the amount they would have.

Government spends less, collects less taxes from Carrier, Carrier gives more millions in bonuses to "upper management", Carrier still relocates, thousands lose their jobs anyway.

Sigh.

 

[Magnetron]

Well, this is a statement, I'll give you that, but without further elaboration, I do not understand where you are coming from with this "rewarding greed" even though I have mightily strived to find common ground upon definition in this 'discussion.'

Would you forbid them laying off workers? Would you legislate that those jobs must remain even if it means the company goes belly-up losing even more tax revenue?

Are you going to sit on the border with a shotgun on the lookout for jobs illegally trying to leave the country?

Again, I think you missed the part where I said Carrier relocates.

 

[Conager]

Government spends less, collects less taxes from Carrier, Carrier gives more millions in bonuses to "upper management", Carrier still relocates, thousands lose their jobs anyway.

Sigh.

Well maybe you should consider nationalizing them then.

Put you in charge of all those "upper management" decisions.

 

[Magnetron]

Do you guys have a life?

Or is it your mission in life to be a bunch of Internet Forum Negative Nancies?

 

[Magnetron]

Well maybe you should consider nationalizing them then.

Put you in charge of all those "upper management" decisions.

What part of let Carrier relocate is so difficult to .........



Nevermind. Life is too short.

 

[Conager]

Do you guys have a life?

Or is it your mission in life to be a bunch of Internet Forum Negative Nancies?

Weren't you the positive Charlie that drug a bunch of non General board posters over here to vote in a failed attempt to partition the general board into a politics free zone?

Why are you over here discussing politics?

 

[water505]

I didn't say, or imply that.

I learned this as an instructor; it is not sufficient to tell someone that they are wrong (as in technique) but you must be able to analyze and explain. It is in this process that the student can teach the teacher and that there can be a meeting of the minds and a sharing of

And as a training manager with 12 years experience I learned that some people can't be reached regardless of how hard the trainer worked. They either lacked the brain power or the desire to learn. Many of them became frustrated and either acted out or blamed others for their ummmm...deficit. At that point they eliminated themselves from training and were removed from the process. I never believed in the principle that it was the manager's fault if an employee failed. I see the same thing here...people who don't have the emotional intelligence or brains to think clearly and understand simple concepts try to blame others for their life failures.

You can't have a meeting of the minds if nobody comes to the meeting. And for what it's worth don't tell me what to say when you use the same words yourself.

 

[Conager]

What part of let Carrier relocate is so difficult to .........



Nevermind. Life is too short.

I happen to agree with you about simply let carrier relocate. I just simply disagree with your idiotic analysis as to why that's necessary. It has nothing to do with upper management bonuses.

It seemed reasonable to point out how idiotic your plan is for the displaced workers (magically form an emplyee-owned company) since if you take any time at all to look at our labor participation rate you can see that we have displaced workers currently all over the country and if your plan was in any way viable it could have been tried for the last 8 years.

 

[Lancecastor]

I like this guy's Positive Attitude...the Company he works for must be doing well!

And as a training manager with 12 years experience I learned that some people can't be reached regardless of how hard the trainer worked. They either lacked the brain power or the desire to learn. Many of them became frustrated and either acted out or blamed others for their ummmm...deficit. At that point they eliminated themselves from training and were removed from the process. I never believed in the principle that it was the manager's fault if an employee failed. I see the same thing here...people who don't have the emotional intelligence or brains to think clearly and understand simple concepts try to blame others for their life failures.

You can't have a meeting of the minds if nobody comes to the meeting. And for what it's worth don't tell me what to say when you use the same words yourself.

 

[Beco]

Is General Motors going to start building roads and bridges? That sort of thing?

Why not? their cars suck!