Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters in Oregon

[chillywilly2]

Well you're really talking about multiple things. First, okay the news. I was just curious cus I'd never even heard estimates and frankly those estimates sound absurd. I don't know 20million since what year (Though I think the numbers from last year are readily available) but the estimates are 300 million guns in the US. If 20 mill is remotely normal that means every gun in the US was purchased in the last 15 years. Either that or the estimate is an absurd low ball.

As for it being a done fact not really. If guns were outlawed and collected by whatever means plus stiff penalties the problem would clean itself up relatively quickly. I mean the truth at the end of the day is that if you have an RPG in your house but you're so scared of being caught with it that you leave it in a hidden pannel under your garage well it may as well not exist as far as the current problem is.

That wouldn't even work in Canada.

I think the numbers were per year. The point was that the number of guns sold with checks and the number without was absurdly different to make such a big deal out of a sudden executive order by the president. he is acting like it will solve Americas gun problem when it won't even scratch the surface.

possibly making fully automatic weapons and as you say, rocket launchers, illegal might be a start but I can't even see you getting that through

edit...please note...at least I refrained from using the S word ...unlike the Dick

 

[richard_daily]

That wouldn't even work in Canada.

I think the numbers were per year. The point was that the number of guns sold with checks and the number without was absurdly different to make such a big deal out of a sudden executive order by the president. he is acting like it will solve Americas gun problem when it won't even scratch the surface.

possibly making fully automatic weapons and as you say, rocket launchers, illegal might be a start but I can't even see you getting that through

jesus christo... do you not realize how regulated Class 3 NFA stuff is already? You're canadian... the only thing you can get is cheap SKS rifles... Full auto weaponry has almost never been used in any crimes, except by a few rogue police officers... but I think they used them against black kids, so you probably think that's "unclear".

 

[chillywilly2]

jesus christo... do you not realize how regulated Class 3 NFA stuff is already? You're canadian... the only thing you can get is cheap SKS rifles... Full auto weaponry has almost never been used in any crimes, except by a few rogue police officers... but I think they used them against black kids, so you probably think that's "unclear".

Beats me..its what our government and Liberals consider to be the scary dangerous stuff.

I'm just going for the "feel better" not a solution.
The only solution is not so many angry people.

Kinda like the chickie in Vegas with the car...nobody screamed that now you gotta outlaw cars...dam things going around killing people now.

as for unclear...we got a cop in court now that killed a black kid with a knife...I think he was strung out on extasy or something...deliberations started today...I'll let you know how it comes out

 

[Sean Renaud]

Do cars last forever?

No?

Neither do guns... if you take very good care of them, they can be shootable in 60-100+ years, but most people don't clean them, oil them, and maintain them... So I don't think the numbers seem that odd.

As for outlawing guns, that seems like political suicide, and also a stupid idea, but whatever... I have no need to get into an argument about that ridiculous position.

If well taken care of yes, they last forever as you point out with guns. Guns in my experience see less wear and tear than cars though. I drive a probably 60miles per day and fire my weapons two or three times a year. My car gets left out in the sun, rain whatever, my gun is in a case, in a house and still gets cleaned better than my car.

Outlawing guns is political suicide. But the rest of the world shows that it's not impossible, it's just not gonna happen.

 

[oggbashan]

After World War 1, the British authorities had too many surplus weapons so they sold them to the public.

They regulated the sales:

If you were a 'working man', you could buy a rifle, a hand gun and ammunition.

If you were a 'gentleman of independent means' you could buy automatic weapons including crew-served machine guns, small mortars.

If you were 'a landed gentleman' with your own estate you could buy heavy artillery (for display outside your stately home, of course).

Most of that weaponry came back into use after Dunkirk.

 

[chillywilly2]

If well taken care of yes, they last forever as you point out with guns. Guns in my experience see less wear and tear than cars though. I drive a probably 60miles per day and fire my weapons two or three times a year. My car gets left out in the sun, rain whatever, my gun is in a case, in a house and still gets cleaned better than my car.

Outlawing guns is political suicide. But the rest of the world shows that it's not impossible, it's just not gonna happen.

The rest of the world has always had restrictive gun laws or restrictive governments...you guys have to start from a fully armed population so taking guns away when you have so many gun murders from criminals just ain't gonna work...you gotta work on the enforcement and mental health side of it...and stopp letting the cops kill all the little black kids

 

[richard_daily]

If well taken care of yes, they last forever as you point out with guns. Guns in my experience see less wear and tear than cars though. I drive a probably 60miles per day and fire my weapons two or three times a year. My car gets left out in the sun, rain whatever, my gun is in a case, in a house and still gets cleaned better than my car.

How many cars pre-1996 are on the road today? Give me a percentage of what you think it might be...

5%? Maybe 10%?

Outlawing guns is political suicide. But the rest of the world shows that it's not impossible, it's just not gonna happen.[/QUOTE]

Do other countries have the right to bear arms enshrined as the 2nd amendment to the constitution?

Do the Swiss have similar issues with violence? They have military weapons in their home, and not "assault rifles", but actual, bonafide military rifles.

You can stroke your emotional outrage all day if you want, but it doesn't make it fact.

 

[chillywilly2]

After World War 1, the British authorities had too many surplus weapons so they sold them to the public.

They regulated the sales:

If you were a 'working man', you could buy a rifle, a hand gun and ammunition.

If you were a 'gentleman of independent means' you could buy automatic weapons including crew-served machine guns, small mortars.

If you were 'a landed gentleman' with your own estate you could buy heavy artillery (for display outside your stately home, of course).

Most of that weaponry came back into use after Dunkirk.

And how did you get it out of the population after that...only the
'Gentlemen" have guns now

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Apparently the evidence was not there for a conviction. If not, an appeal should exonerate them. Silly how that works, isn't it.

So I assume you are fine with the jury's findings in the Ferguson/Brown case? I further assume you believe the protesters in that case are idiots and terrorists and it is fine to racial stereotype them?

Talk about blind faith....

You can post all the word salad you like, my statement is correct, the Malheur Wildlife Refuge was established by Teddy Roosevelt in 1908.

Congratulations!!! Your statement is correct. You have read the first sentence of their page. You are now more informed than 99% of the people in this thread!!!!!

Of course that sentence is completely irrelevant and completely ignores the fact they have more than doubled in size since and the how/why

Furthermore you completely ignore my list of facts.

But that is OK. We all know why.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Perhaps the authorities should just block the access and leave the protesters there until Spring?

That is WAYYYYYY to logical for this group.

They want a armed response. Anything less show racism as that was the response in Ferguson.

Despite the fact no one is in danger here, despite the fact they are not burning shit down, looting, or assaulting people. Not only are they not...there is 0% chance they could.

 

[Sean]

Do the Swiss have similar issues with violence? They have military weapons in their home, and not "assault rifles", but actual, bonafide military rifles.

Actually, yes.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

I noticed this bit:



"Peaceful protesters." Uh-huh.

So they are letting people leave the refuge and drive around town? Cite?

never-mind.....

 

[richard_daily]

Actually, yes.

Care to back that up?

 

[chillywilly2]

So I assume you are fine with the jury's findings in the Ferguson/Brown case? I further assume you believe the protesters in that case are idiots and terrorists and it is fine to racial stereotype them?

Talk about blind faith....



Congratulations!!! Your statement is correct. You have read the first sentence of their page. You are now more informed than 99% of the people in this thread!!!!!

Of course that sentence is completely irrelevant and completely ignores the fact they have more than doubled in size since and the how/why

Furthermore you completely ignore my list of facts.

But that is OK. We all know why.

I believed the year because anybody could google that and I figured they must have done something to drastically increase the size because the dumbass Liberal wouldn't bother to look that part up.

 

[oggbashan]

And how did you get it out of the population after that...only the
'Gentlemen" have guns now

Wrong. Shotguns are commonplace. Almost anyone not certified as insane or a prisoner on licence can get a shotgun licence.

Hand guns? Rifles with military calibres? No.

Air weapons? Yes.

Black powder weapons? Yes,

Black powder cannon? With limitations, yes.

 

[Sean]

Care to back that up?

Look up the gun death rates in Switzerland compared to any comparable European country.

 

[richard_daily]

Look up the gun death rates in Switzerland compared to any comparable European country.

I'm not doing your homework for you.

 

[Sean]

I'm not doing your homework for you.

I thought you'd like to use your own source. The numbers are pretty stark. Switzerland's gun death rate per 100k population is 3.08 The UK figure is 0.23

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Wrong. Shotguns are commonplace. Almost anyone not certified as insane or a prisoner on licence can get a shotgun licence.

Hand guns? Rifles with military calibres? No.

Air weapons? Yes.

Black powder weapons? Yes,

Black powder cannon? With limitations, yes.

Out of curiosity, do they restrict the type of shot gun ammo you can have. Can you only buy bird shot?

 

[chillywilly2]

Wrong. Shotguns are commonplace. Almost anyone not certified as insane or a prisoner on licence can get a shotgun licence.

Hand guns? Rifles with military calibres? No.

Air weapons? Yes.

Black powder weapons? Yes,

Black powder cannon? With limitations, yes.

I did mean shotguns. I didn't know they were that easy to get but know I was in a couple of really nice gun shops over there. Nobody I associated with would even think of having one though so I figured they might be a bit restricted.

They were actually quite suprised that I even wanted to walk into a gun shop but then the Canada northwoods and all the bears comes up and they understand and want to follow along for a look see

 

[NeverEndingMe]

I would've taken Little Caesars pizza with me for a seige. That shit will keep for weeks.

yeah I can see that. after all, your kind needs lots of carbs. What are you these days...400, 450lbs?

 

[chillywilly2]

Out of curiosity, do they restrict the type of shot gun ammo you can have. Can you only buy bird shot?

From what I saw there is no place to use anything else and nobody has a gun just because nobody has a place to use it

 

[Pookie]

So I assume you are fine with the jury's findings in the Ferguson/Brown case? I further assume you believe the protesters in that case are idiots and terrorists and it is fine to racial stereotype them?

Talk about blind faith....

I like to take things on a case by case basis. Sure things can get fucked up. Innocent people go to jail. Some have even been executed. Thats the purpose of the appeals process, but even that can fail at times.

There is nothing of substance to make me believe this case was decided incorrectly though. *shrugs* Most of the questioning of the finding now seems rooted in emotion. Incredulity alone isn't going to win points with me though.

 

[richard_daily]

I thought you'd like to use your own source. The numbers are pretty stark. Switzerland's gun death rate per 100k population is 3.08 The UK figure is 0.23

I notice you just said "gun deaths"... kind of disingenuous.

it's probably due in part to your prevalence of cameras and surveillance everywhere... Violating civil liberties and privacy gives you about 2.75 less deaths per hundred thousand.

If you're ok with that, that's on you.

 

[chillywilly2]

I like to take things on a case by case basis. Sure things can get fucked up. Innocent people go to jail. Some have even been executed. Thats the purpose of the appeals process, but even that can fail at times.

There is nothing of substance to make me believe this case was decided incorrectly though. *shrugs* Most of the questioning of the finding now seems rooted in emotion. Incredulity alone isn't going to win points with me though.

Carefull with that case by case attitude...some people will trash you for not being either for or agin the government...none of this considering the facts stuff