It's war stupid!

Ishmael

Literotica Guru
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Posts
84,005
We Are At War

We are at war with Islam. Not part of Islam, all of Islam. It can be no other way as things stand today. We are told that only a small percentage of Islam are Jihadist fanatics, on on the surface that is true. 10%, a fairly universally agreed on figure, is much smaller than 90%. The 10% representing the estimated number of radicals. But 10% represents 160,000,000 people. 10% doesn't appear so small anymore, does it? Worse still, according more than a few polls, upwards of 50% more are in sympathy with the goals of the fanatics while not exactly wanting to participate. That's one hell of a big support group, 800,000,000 to use a number. What's worse is there is no way to know which is which. They don't wear uniforms or badges, don't have tattoos, and are of no particular gender, race, or national origin. So who are the Jihadists? You don't know, I don't know, and it's becoming apparent that the various governments haven't a clue either.

The Barbarians Aren't at the Gates

They're already inside the gates of every Western nation. As has been so vividly demonstrated recently they can be natural born citizens. The waging of Jihad is a state of mind based on a Theological Philosophy, a Philosophy that can be adopted by anyone at anytime. And while we're informed that that Philosophy is a 'False' Philosophy, it appears to be very valid in the minds of those that choose to adopt those beliefs. We are told that Farook's wife was instrumental in his radicalization. And that is most likely the case. But the fact remains that he was a natural born citizen who held a very good job. By any measure he should have been living the American dream. Obviously that wasn't enough for him. On top of that there are regimes throughout the Islamic world that are actively recruiting these Jihadists. Not necessarily to actively promote war against the west, but by recruiting their radicals and sending them elsewhere they are protecting their own regimes. It is a matter of their own self-interest in maintaining their own power.

Who Do You Trust?

The government(s) that up until recently have made every attempt to minimize the problem while piling burden upon burden on the average citizen in the name of making them "safe?" How much more burden are you willing to bear with regard to the invasion of privacy, travel restrictions, the right, even the ability, to peaceably assemble? Not to mention the constant bleeding of the economies and taxpayers. Are we to be totally disarmed in the hopes that the government(s) will always be one step ahead of the Jihadist? Does anyone realistically think that that is even possible?

When Will the Peaceful Rise Up?

President Obama did make a telling remark/request last evening. He enjoined the 'Peaceful' of the Faith to rise up against their barbaric brethren. It's about time a national leader did so and I do applaud him for that. But how realistic is that request? Not every German was a Nazi, and not every Southerner held slaves or even agreed with slavery. Not every Frenchman wanted to follow Napoleon to Moscow either. But by intimidation, blood relations, Philosophical identification, or for so many other reasons those bloody wars were waged none the less. Had the majority of any of those populations risen up and said "NO!", those wars would have never been fought. But the fact is they didn't rise up and say, NO1, and as a consequence suffered right along with those that went willingly into battle. And that IS the nature of war. The innocent and pacifist supporters suffer right along with the combatant. So when will the 'Peaceful' rise up as a population and scream, "NO! at the top of their lungs? Before or after a wholesale war is waged against Islam?

The Paradigm of History

It is an old saw that the generals always try to fight the previous war. And there is more truth in that than most anyone, including the military, want to admit to. The paradigm we are operating under is the paradigm of the Cold War. Limited warfare, preferably with proxies, so as not to draw major powers into conflict. And this made perfect sense when said major powers were poised to unleash a nuclear Armageddon. But that is NOT the case today. The geological heart of Islam is in no position to unleash such weapons on the West. This is a case where the major powers can act in concert of they so choose. The paradigm of today is one resurrected from WWII. Total war with the goal of unconditional surrender. That is the only way to get the radicals to rethink the validity of their Philosophy. As long as they believe that their efforts are having an effect there is no reason for them to re-evaluate their belief system.

No, We Didn't Ask for This

Islam has been at war with the west since it's beginnings with only a brief period, 'The Golden Age', of relative peace. And that age was based on a markedly different Theological Philosophy than exists in Islam today. Blaming yourself for your own murder at the hands of a thug is pointless, and quite stupid. To do so is to tacitly admit that the thugs were right all along. It actually validates their criminal activity and invites more of the same. If you were a shopkeeper it's the akin to hanging a sign out front reading, "Rob me and Kill me." I can think of no rational person that would do that, so why are we basically doing that with regards to this conflict. As in any war the goal is to prosecute the war until your enemy is no longer capable of doing you harm. Why have we forgotten that?

Ishmael
 
You champion the intentional killing of totally innocent babies...

...why must you fantasize you're so different from your murderous kin?

How many civilians have they burned, drowned, raped, beheaded, abused, shot, and tortured?

So you're in favor of letting them continue?
 
How many civilians have they burned, drowned, raped, beheaded, abused, shot, and tortured?

So you're in favor of letting them continue?

You've championed the intentional killing of almost 1 million totally innocent babies every year for decades now.

How many centuries do you estimate it'll take daesh to catch up to mass murderers like you?

Quit trying to deflect, nipper.
 
You've championed the intentional killing of almost 1 million totally innocent babies every year for decades now.

.

Oh, I have?

What evidence do you have to support that?

None.

You made it up.

Fucking liar.
 
You've championed the intentional killing of almost 1 million totally innocent babies every year for decades now.

How many centuries do you estimate it'll take daesh to catch up to mass murderers like you?

Quit trying to deflect, nipper.

1 million?

Pffft, chicken shit

make it 400 million as a starter, then we can talk
 
War is always the first option for the over-60 conservative "bitter clinger" demographic. Always.

From the safety of their padded barcaloungers, they can play armchair general all day long. It's better'n a video game!

#PewPewPew
 
How much does your wife give you in allowance every year, nipper?

Look asshole...you made a stupid accusation and can't back it up. You fucked up....again.

Maybe one day that cut under your nose will finally heal.

You're a pathetic, miserable liar, and everyone knows it.
 
Look asshole...you made a stupid accusation and can't back it up. You fucked up....again.

Maybe one day that cut under your nose will finally heal.

You're a pathetic, miserable liar, and everyone knows it.

Ashamed to admit how much your wife gives you in allowance each year, eh nipper?
 
Not posting this to prove any point. Just curious to see what people think of it.



The Isis papers: leaked documents show how Isis is building its state
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/07/leaked-isis-document-reveals-plan-building-state-syria

"Together with other documents obtained by the Guardian, it builds up a picture of a group that, although sworn to a founding principle of brutal violence, is equally set on more mundane matters such as health, education, commerce, communications and jobs. In short, it is building a state.

It showed that building a viable country rooted in fundamentalist theology was the central aim. “[Isis] is a project that strives to govern. It’s not just a case of their sole end being endless battle.”


“If the west sees Isis as an almost stereotypical band of psychopathic killers, we risk dramatically underestimating them.

“Far from being an army of irrational, bloodthirsty fanatics, IS [Isis] is a deeply calculating political organisation with an extremely complex, well-planned infrastructure behind it.”
 
We Are At War

We are at war with Islam. Not part of Islam, all of Islam. It can be no other way as things stand today. We are told that only a small percentage of Islam are Jihadist fanatics, on on the surface that is true. 10%, a fairly universally agreed on figure, is much smaller than 90%. The 10% representing the estimated number of radicals. But 10% represents 160,000,000 people. 10% doesn't appear so small anymore, does it? Worse still, according more than a few polls, upwards of 50% more are in sympathy with the goals of the fanatics while not exactly wanting to participate. That's one hell of a big support group, 800,000,000 to use a number. What's worse is there is no way to know which is which. They don't wear uniforms or badges, don't have tattoos, and are of no particular gender, race, or national origin. So who are the Jihadists? You don't know, I don't know, and it's becoming apparent that the various governments haven't a clue either.

The Barbarians Aren't at the Gates

They're already inside the gates of every Western nation. As has been so vividly demonstrated recently they can be natural born citizens. The waging of Jihad is a state of mind based on a Theological Philosophy, a Philosophy that can be adopted by anyone at anytime. And while we're informed that that Philosophy is a 'False' Philosophy, it appears to be very valid in the minds of those that choose to adopt those beliefs. We are told that Farook's wife was instrumental in his radicalization. And that is most likely the case. But the fact remains that he was a natural born citizen who held a very good job. By any measure he should have been living the American dream. Obviously that wasn't enough for him. On top of that there are regimes throughout the Islamic world that are actively recruiting these Jihadists. Not necessarily to actively promote war against the west, but by recruiting their radicals and sending them elsewhere they are protecting their own regimes. It is a matter of their own self-interest in maintaining their own power.

Who Do You Trust?

The government(s) that up until recently have made every attempt to minimize the problem while piling burden upon burden on the average citizen in the name of making them "safe?" How much more burden are you willing to bear with regard to the invasion of privacy, travel restrictions, the right, even the ability, to peaceably assemble? Not to mention the constant bleeding of the economies and taxpayers. Are we to be totally disarmed in the hopes that the government(s) will always be one step ahead of the Jihadist? Does anyone realistically think that that is even possible?

When Will the Peaceful Rise Up?

President Obama did make a telling remark/request last evening. He enjoined the 'Peaceful' of the Faith to rise up against their barbaric brethren. It's about time a national leader did so and I do applaud him for that. But how realistic is that request? Not every German was a Nazi, and not every Southerner held slaves or even agreed with slavery. Not every Frenchman wanted to follow Napoleon to Moscow either. But by intimidation, blood relations, Philosophical identification, or for so many other reasons those bloody wars were waged none the less. Had the majority of any of those populations risen up and said "NO!", those wars would have never been fought. But the fact is they didn't rise up and say, NO1, and as a consequence suffered right along with those that went willingly into battle. And that IS the nature of war. The innocent and pacifist supporters suffer right along with the combatant. So when will the 'Peaceful' rise up as a population and scream, "NO! at the top of their lungs? Before or after a wholesale war is waged against Islam?

The Paradigm of History

It is an old saw that the generals always try to fight the previous war. And there is more truth in that than most anyone, including the military, want to admit to. The paradigm we are operating under is the paradigm of the Cold War. Limited warfare, preferably with proxies, so as not to draw major powers into conflict. And this made perfect sense when said major powers were poised to unleash a nuclear Armageddon. But that is NOT the case today. The geological heart of Islam is in no position to unleash such weapons on the West. This is a case where the major powers can act in concert of they so choose. The paradigm of today is one resurrected from WWII. Total war with the goal of unconditional surrender. That is the only way to get the radicals to rethink the validity of their Philosophy. As long as they believe that their efforts are having an effect there is no reason for them to re-evaluate their belief system.

No, We Didn't Ask for This

Islam has been at war with the west since it's beginnings with only a brief period, 'The Golden Age', of relative peace. And that age was based on a markedly different Theological Philosophy than exists in Islam today. Blaming yourself for your own murder at the hands of a thug is pointless, and quite stupid. To do so is to tacitly admit that the thugs were right all along. It actually validates their criminal activity and invites more of the same. If you were a shopkeeper it's the akin to hanging a sign out front reading, "Rob me and Kill me." I can think of no rational person that would do that, so why are we basically doing that with regards to this conflict. As in any war the goal is to prosecute the war until your enemy is no longer capable of doing you harm. Why have we forgotten that?

Ishmael


War, the solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

You call Islam thugs, and then you engage in the same sort of rhetoric that a thug does, calling for violence against a people that by your own admission are 90% not the enemy.

Using your same metric, 10% of christians are the enemy. Why aren't you targeting them? I mean, the answer is obvious, it's your bigotry towards one religion, at the exclusion of all others.

Here's the real issue: fundamentalism... of all brands.

You're a part of that problem. I don't expect you to comprehend that, but the issue is YOU, and people like you. You're not really that different from a jihadist. You just happen to believe in a slightly different easter bunny.

So long as you and people like you are willing to call for violence and for people to "rise up" against others over ideological purposes, there will be war, and there will be famine, and there will be murder.

An eye for an eye, amirite?
 
A 50 million member group of Indonesian Sunni Muslims has denounced ISIS. We are not at war with these folks. And if you declare otherwise or if you want to be then you are just ignorant. (Which may indeed be the case come to think of it.)
 
We Are At War

As in any war the goal is to prosecute the war until your enemy is no longer capable of doing you harm. Why have we forgotten that?

Ishmael

I read everything in your post but am looking for what your suggestions would be to resolve the ISIS problem. It seems vague -- prosecute a war? It is easy to be a critic. Do you have any practical ideas that could be used?

At least Anonymous is hacking them. I like that.
 
Here's the real issue: fundamentalism... of all brands.

You're a part of that problem. I don't expect you to comprehend that, but the issue is YOU, and people like you. You're not really that different from a jihadist. You just happen to believe in a slightly different easter bunny.

The primary difference between Ishmael and a jihadist is that, while both of them are both loud and bellicose and uncompromising about the Way Things Ought To Be, the jihadist is willing to die for his beliefs.

Ishmael want others...and the children of others....to die for his beliefs.
 
Not posting this to prove any point. Just curious to see what people think of it.


The Isis papers: leaked documents show how Isis is building its state
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/07/leaked-isis-document-reveals-plan-building-state-syria

"Together with other documents obtained by the Guardian, it builds up a picture of a group that, although sworn to a founding principle of brutal violence, is equally set on more mundane matters such as health, education, commerce, communications and jobs. In short, it is building a state.

It showed that building a viable country rooted in fundamentalist theology was the central aim. “[Isis] is a project that strives to govern. It’s not just a case of their sole end being endless battle.”


“If the west sees Isis as an almost stereotypical band of psychopathic killers, we risk dramatically underestimating them.

“Far from being an army of irrational, bloodthirsty fanatics, IS [Isis] is a deeply calculating political organisation with an extremely complex, well-planned infrastructure behind it.”

((Re my previous post: I posted it here just at random, because the thread topic is a tiny bit related to it. I have no opinion on this thread -not siding with anyone-, but the sensationalist nature of the Guardian article Really peaked my interest))
I hope, though, that someone might comment on it.
 
Not posting this to prove any point. Just curious to see what people think of it.



The Isis papers: leaked documents show how Isis is building its state
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/07/leaked-isis-document-reveals-plan-building-state-syria

"Together with other documents obtained by the Guardian, it builds up a picture of a group that, although sworn to a founding principle of brutal violence, is equally set on more mundane matters such as health, education, commerce, communications and jobs. In short, it is building a state.

It showed that building a viable country rooted in fundamentalist theology was the central aim. “[Isis] is a project that strives to govern. It’s not just a case of their sole end being endless battle.”


“If the west sees Isis as an almost stereotypical band of psychopathic killers, we risk dramatically underestimating them.

“Far from being an army of irrational, bloodthirsty fanatics, IS [Isis] is a deeply calculating political organisation with an extremely complex, well-planned infrastructure behind it.”

No one has argued that they aren't engaged in building a 'nation' of sorts. And being a group of bloodthirsty fanatics doesn't mean they're totally irrational. What they're doing makes perfect sense from their point of view.

Their long term goal is an Islamic world (the whole world) molded to their way of thinking just as Iran's long term goal is the very same. Iran's brand of Islam just happens to be a little more lenient than ISIS's.

Do you want to live under either?

Ishmael
 
It's time to start selling weapons to those peaceful Islamic nations who now need to defend themselves against American attacks.
 
12/4/15

No they didn't, limited scope to conduct combat operations. An out and out declaration conveys powers to subsume the economy without congressional approval.

Survival murder vs discretionary murder. (As if that makes some difference to the dead.) Apparently the current CIC is quite willing to carry out murder in secrecy, but puts on a different face when it's public.

You tired of legalese yet? I am.

Ishmael


Let's start with the fact that what you quoted has expired, why else would he seek an extension? And a congressional law is NOT a declaration of war.

Stop it counselor. In so many respects you're the problem, not the solution.

Ishmael


12/7/15


It's "WAR", huh??


Wellllll, look who finally graduated from law school!!!!!!
 
Another way to look at is: WHAT IS THE AVERAGE SIZE OF ANY NATIONS MILITARY? HOW MANY GUN TOTING KILLERS ARE NEEDED?

About ONE PERCENT?
 
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