Look, Islam is not the enemy

[KingOrfeo]

Spinoff from this thread. Yes, Islam has some problematic and intolerant elements baked into its DNA, elements which will always make for a difficult relationship with the infidel world. But the last thing the world needs -- and the very thing ISIS longs for, and the very thing a lot of RW Americans also seem to long for -- is a "Clash of Civilizations" between Dar al-Islam and the West. If Islam as such is the problem behind terrorism, then why don't we see just as much terrorism coming out of Indonesia or Bangladesh as out of Syria?

 

[Hypoxia]

Islam itself is not the enemy of civilization. Organized religion is. Those putting their ideology above humanity are the enemy. Every fundamentalist is a terrorist. Every true believer is a potential murderer. It comes with the plumbing. If you don't believe as I do, you must be an Agent Of Darkness and must be destroyed.

Allah, protect me from your followers.

 

[Hard_Rom]

The problem arises when you start writing it down. Then people start arguing over mere words. If you don't write it down, no one can be really sure what was even said. Best you can do is just get the gist of the discussion. Alluded to in a story or myth. Write it down it becomes dogma, frozen in time. To assume the Now is perfect and should be made dogma is prideful

 

[PoppingTom]

Islam itself is not the enemy of civilization. Organized religion is.

Most religions are organized to the bone.

Those putting their ideology above humanity are the enemy.

Aaaaaa'it!

Every fundamentalist is a terrorist.

Every religion, every ideology, every party has its fundies. The Greens aren't really terrorists, not even Greenpeace.

Every true believer is a potential murderer.

Every human is. it means all and nothing.

It comes with the plumbing. If you don't believe as I do, you must be an Agent Of Darkness and must be destroyed.

We've got quite a lot of these people on Lit.

 

[JackLuis]

Crazy, arrogant, self-righteous bastards are the enemy. If we stop giving crazy bastards the cover of religion or politics or what ever we avoid conflating one thing with another.

Rant over, Happy Turkey Day!

 

[Sean Renaud]

Agents of Darkness? We do have a lot of them on Lit. I am one of their leaders here to make sure that everything is done by the book. You have no idea how disorganized you petty humans are capable of being without proper guidance. It's almost like you want to get the answers wrong on the test. And yes there is a test.

 

[mark_j]

Religion, in and of itself, is not the problem. It's what man has done with it that is..

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Fuck them all, let Allah sort them out.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Religion, in and of itself, is not the problem. It's what man has done with it that is..

Nope. Religion is a problem. Religion is not a rock that some man stumbled over and it could be used to bash someone upside the head or it could be used to catch your dinner. It's an artificial construct designed solely to control irrational minds. Basically it's a government without the rational parts.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Nope. Religion is a problem. Religion is not a rock that some man stumbled over and it could be used to bash someone upside the head or it could be used to catch your dinner. It's an artificial construct designed solely to control irrational minds. Basically it's a government without the rational parts.

That makes it sound like religion is something atheists invented to dupe everybody else. I don't think it ever was that, barring a few special cases like L. Ron Hubbard. Religions are started by true believers. When Marx wrote, "Religion is the opiate of the masses," he did not mean it is something the ruling class peddles them to keep them docile, he meant it is something the masses cook up for themselves to deal with the pain of life. There has never been a known human culture, primitive or advanced, with no religious beliefs at all. There might be someday, but it took the Scientific Revolution to make that possible, and that started almost 400 years ago and religions are still around.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That makes it sound like religion is something atheists invented to dupe everybody else. I don't think it ever was that, barring a few special cases like L. Ron Hubbard. Religions are started by true believers. When Marx wrote, "Religion is the opiate of the masses," he did not mean it is something the ruling class peddles them to keep them docile, he meant it is something the masses cook up for themselves to deal with the pain of life. There has never been a known human culture, primitive or advanced, with no religious beliefs at all. There might be someday, but it took the Scientific Revolution to make that possible, and that started almost 400 years ago and religions are still around.

Granted I'm speaking primarily about the Abrahamic traditions here but it seems to be true to a lesser degree of all the major religions. They started out as some strange sort of blend of science and government.

Look at the laws, some of them are (or at least seem) random. But lots of them aren't. Don't eat pork or other certain foods. Today we know how to safely prepare many things but we didn't then. Hell half the stuff that is kosher/halal can be safely eaten raw. Circumcision reduces lots of various health issues that today with modern hygeine aren't important but a bunch of pre-shower having dudes? Pretty good practice. These guys were largely the scientists of their era, hell science and religion got along just fine until relatively recently in the grand scheme of things.

They also contain a lot of laws that we still follow to this day in various shapes and forms. (Note: Not saying we got our laws from the Bible, every culture on the planet seemed to get the same basics together sooner or later and then whatever wackiness that ensued later for who knows why. In this case it was similar to government, at least as much government as patriarchal tribes had or needed.

I may phrase it harshly but I understand what it's purpose was perfectly well. I don't believe we need it currently for anything at all. We may not have all the answers but we certainly know enough to safely function and more importantly to go hunting for the answers we need instead of hoping some other being will give us a hand but it had a very important place.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Spinoff from this thread. Yes, Islam has some problematic and intolerant elements baked into its DNA, elements which will always make for a difficult relationship with the infidel world. But the last thing the world needs -- and the very thing ISIS longs for, and the very thing a lot of RW Americans also seem to long for -- is a "Clash of Civilizations" between Dar al-Islam and the West.

Call me crazy but any time a religion is being used to disrupt not just one but numerous civilizations....that's a fuckin' problem. Islam is a fucking problem just like every other major religion fucking with peoples lives and to anyone not completely blinded by some silly notion that Islam is the greatest fucking thing since big perky tits it can be argued quite easily that it is more so just because they have been the biggest buttholes about it lately.

If Islam as such is the problem behind terrorism, then why don't we see just as much terrorism coming out of Indonesia or Bangladesh as out of Syria?

Same reason Christians in BC Canada are rather unlike the loons you find in the Bible belt USA from those in Oslo Norway. It's a culture/economics/societal/environmental/historical concoction that creates this vortex of douchery that's been shitting on the middle east for eons.

Nope. Religion is a problem. Religion is not a rock that some man stumbled over and it could be used to bash someone upside the head or it could be used to catch your dinner. It's an artificial construct designed solely to control irrational minds. Basically it's a government without the rational parts.

It really is the initial rough draft of government....antiquated and barbaric by today's standards to be sure but it was still a government, complete with command structures, fear mongering campaigns and everything.

That makes it sound like religion is something atheists invented to dupe everybody else. I don't think it ever was that, barring a few special cases like L. Ron Hubbard. Religions are started by true believers.

Doesn't matter who they are started by...they were still the primary form of government for most of human history.

When Marx wrote, "Religion is the opiate of the masses," he did not mean it is something the ruling class peddles them to keep them docile, he meant it is something the masses cook up for themselves to deal with the pain of life.

Yes but no there are absolutely multiple meanings in that statement....because religion is a way to control the masses and it is absolutely something the ruling class uses today and has used for thousands of years to keep the villagers complacent and compliant. Popes and other religious leaders have totally destroy dynasties and democracies of various kinds around the world and imposed theocratic rule on numerous occasions throughout history. Themz just the facts man....."because my pimpin' threads mean I'm closer to god and he'll be pissed if you don't do what I say" works so terrifyingly fucking good it was the FIRST thing our founding fathers decided should get a big NO GO when it came to how shit was going to be run here, creating some of the more unique aspects of the M'urican political/social culture in the process.

There has never been a known human culture, primitive or advanced, with no religious beliefs at all. There might be someday, but it took the Scientific Revolution to make that possible, and that started almost 400 years ago and religions are still around.

That doesn't make religion not a giant load of extremely volatile/dangerous bullshit in the hands of the wrong people. Yes that means Islam as well.....you can call that racist or bigoted all you want but it's the fuckin' truth.

 

[JackLuis]

Originally Posted by KingOrfeo View Post
Spinoff from this thread. Yes, Islam has some problematic and intolerant elements baked into its DNA, elements which will always make for a difficult relationship with the infidel world. But the last thing the world needs -- and the very thing ISIS longs for, and the very thing a lot of RW Americans also seem to long for -- is a "Clash of Civilizations" between Dar al-Islam and the West.

How dare you conflate Rethuglican Nut Jobs and ISIS with Civilization?

They are both Crazy Bastards, nothing civilized about either.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Religion exists where all else fails or fears to go or cant exist.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

yes, you and your kind .... ARE the enemy of America

Spinoff from this thread. Yes, Islam has some problematic and intolerant elements baked into its DNA, elements which will always make for a difficult relationship with the infidel world. But the last thing the world needs -- and the very thing ISIS longs for, and the very thing a lot of RW Americans also seem to long for -- is a "Clash of Civilizations" between Dar al-Islam and the West. If Islam as such is the problem behind terrorism, then why don't we see just as much terrorism coming out of Indonesia or Bangladesh as out of Syria?

 

[lovecraft68]

Religion is as big of a crutch as any drug and an excuse to not only hate people not like you, but to think you're better than them.

The world would be peaceful if all the idiot god followers-of any god-would just keep to themselves or better yet, get in the jim Jones Kool aid line and do others a favor.

As for Islam, round them up shove them all back into their own countries, never let them leave and let them fight and kill each other like they've been doing for thousands of years you know, being all peaceful and such.

The only reason they didn't attack the west years ago was they couldn't fly here.

 

[phrodeau]

Religion is as big of a crutch as any drug and an excuse to not only hate people not like you, but to think you're better than them.

The world would be peaceful if all the idiot god followers-of any god-would just keep to themselves or better yet, get in the jim Jones Kool aid line and do others a favor.

As for Islam, round them up shove them all back into their own countries, never let them leave and let them fight and kill each other like they've been doing for thousands of years you know, being all peaceful and such.

The only reason they didn't attack the west years ago was they couldn't fly here.

The Iranian Air Force was established in 1920.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Islam itself is not the enemy of civilization. Organized religion is. Those putting their ideology above humanity are the enemy. Every fundamentalist is a terrorist. Every true believer is a potential murderer. It comes with the plumbing. If you don't believe as I do, you must be an Agent Of Darkness and must be destroyed.

Allah, protect me from your followers.

If organized religion is the enemy of civilization, why has every great civilization thrived under organized religion?

Very few Protestant Fundamentalists are terrorists. Very many Muslim Fundamentalists are terrorists.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The world would be peaceful if all the idiot god followers-of any god-would just keep to themselves or better yet, get in the jim Jones Kool aid line and do others a favor.

The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble.

- Adolf Hitler, from Hitler's Table-Talk, page 59

 

[JackLuis]

WATCH: Frenzied pastor shouts ‘n*gger f*ggots’ at ‘Love not Hate’ protesters outside his NY church

notorious New York pastor addressed “Love not Hate” protesters outside his church by shouting racist and anti-gay slurs.

The “Love not Hate” rally outside of Pastor James David Manning’s Atlah Worldwide Church on Monday was organized by the group Harlem Against Violence, Homophobia, and Transphobia to protest the church for demonizing LGBT people. The demonstration drew more than 100 people, according to DNAinfo, including New York state Assemblyman Keith Wright.

Video of the event posted by blogger Joe My God shows Pastor Manning repeatedly singing, “Oh, f*ggots, please come out tonight.”

“Where are all the n*gger f*ggots?” Manning yells. “Where are the n*ggers? Why are ya’ll white?”

The pastor eventually spots a black protester, and begins yelling about a “n*gger lesbo.”

“Hey, you lesbo, come over here,” he shouts repeatedly.

Pastor Manning — who has admitted to having been tempted by the gay “lifestyle” — gained international notoriety after claiming in a video that Starbucks baristas were secretly adding semen to customers’ lattes as part of a gay plot. His church in Harlem frequently displays signs with anti-gay messages, including calling for the stoning of LGBT people.

Crazy Bastard Alert!

 

[Sean Renaud]

If organized religion is the enemy of civilization, why has every great civilization thrived under organized religion?

Very few Protestant Fundamentalists are terrorists. Very many Muslim Fundamentalists are terrorists.

Just for the record what religion are the recent US presidents? Because the only reason we don't call our practice in the Middle East Terrorism is because we're winning.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Just for the record what religion are the recent US presidents? Because the only reason we don't call our practice in the Middle East Terrorism is because we're winning.

yes, obama is like Charlie Sheen and made us 'winning'

think Charlie and the obama drink tiger blood together?

power to the aids!