Language differences.

[DeYaKen]

Just thought you guys might get a laugh out of this. Doubtless you can come up with some of your own.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSWt3mPUsAAyuvH.jpg

 

[oggbashan]

There was one unfortunate misunderstanding between the British and the Americans during the Korean War.

The British unit was being attached by waves of communist soldiers. The American commander got through to the local British commander and asked how things were.

The Brit replied "Things are a bit sticky, sir."

The American thought that meant that the British unit was coping. What the British officer's phrase 'a bit sticky' actually meant was "Help! We're in deep shit!"

Most of that British unit died.

From The Telegraph:

On Tuesday afternoon, an American, Maj-Gen Robert H Soule, asked the British brigadier, Thomas Brodie: "How are the Glosters doing?" The brigadier, schooled in British understatement, replied: "A bit sticky, things are pretty sticky down there." To American ears, this did not sound too desperate.

Gen Soule ordered the Glosters to hold fast and await relief the following morning. With that their fate was sealed. On Wednesday morning, 25th, the young Capt Farrar-Hockley heard the news. "You know that relief force?" his colonel told him. "Well, they're not coming."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1316777/The-day-650-Glosters-faced-10000-Chinese.html

 

[49greg]

There was one unfortunate misunderstanding between the British and the Americans during the Korean War.

The British unit was being attached by waves of communist soldiers. The American commander got through to the local British commander and asked how things were.

The Brit replied "Things are a bit sticky, sir."

The American thought that meant that the British unit was coping. What the British officer's phrase 'a bit sticky' actually meant was "Help! We're in deep shit!"

Most of that British unit died.

From The Telegraph:

On Tuesday afternoon, an American, Maj-Gen Robert H Soule, asked the British brigadier, Thomas Brodie: "How are the Glosters doing?" The brigadier, schooled in British understatement, replied: "A bit sticky, things are pretty sticky down there." To American ears, this did not sound too desperate.

Gen Soule ordered the Glosters to hold fast and await relief the following morning. With that their fate was sealed. On Wednesday morning, 25th, the young Capt Farrar-Hockley heard the news. "You know that relief force?" his colonel told him. "Well, they're not coming."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1316777/The-day-650-Glosters-faced-10000-Chinese.html

That's sad, really really sad. I remember reading a field manual when I was in the Army, it started with a phrase (can't remember the exact wording) saying how bad military communications were and how important they were. And t was just talking about commo withing the US Army.

Here in the US when we hear about the Korean War it sounds as if it was only the US soldiers there. Growing up in Hong Kong in the sixites, when the British owned the place, I was surprised when a school mate showed me a small Soviet coin and told me his father found it during the Korean War. He didn't know how or under what circumstances it was. I was thrown by the fact his Dad was in Korea and in a British unit. I've since learned better.

 

[sr71plt]

That misunderstanding would have had to have stopped some time ago. I don't think Americans have had a different understanding of "sticky" from "difficult" in my lifetime.

 

[MichaelinChina]

That's sad, really really sad. I remember reading a field manual when I was in the Army, it started with a phrase (can't remember the exact wording) saying how bad military communications were and how important they were. And t was just talking about commo withing the US Army.

Here in the US when we hear about the Korean War it sounds as if it was only the US soldiers there. Growing up in Hong Kong in the sixites, when the British owned the place, I was surprised when a school mate showed me a small Soviet coin and told me his father found it during the Korean War. He didn't know how or under what circumstances it was. I was thrown by the fact his Dad was in Korea and in a British unit. I've since learned better.

Australians served in Korea too. Probably another set of confusing language differences as well.

I wonder if the US people are led to think only US forces are/were in Afghanistan and other wars since WW1.

 

[Gorza]

The classic British periphrasis that confounds American students is when a senior academic responds to someone's written work with, "That's interesting. I've never quite thought of it like that before". The student hears this as high praise, while, in fact, "That's so bad as to deserve comment. I wouldn't think anyone would be so stupid as to think that".

 

[Penuche]

One, which I didn't think would be a problem, was the name for social/subsidised housing - "projects" in the USA but "estates" in the UK.

Which led to me getting called overprivileged in more than one very free and frank exchange of views by email.

After referring to the men working in the grounds of this estate.

 

[oggbashan]

Australians served in Korea too. Probably another set of confusing language differences as well.

I wonder if the US people are led to think only US forces are/were in Afghanistan and other wars since WW1.

From Wikipedia: UN allies in Korean War:

1950–1953

During the three years of the Korean War, military forces of these nations were allied as members of the UNC.[10] Peak strength for the UNC was 932,964 on July 27, 1953, the day the Armistice Agreement was signed:

Combat forces
South Korea – 590,911
United States – 302,483
United Kingdom – 14,198
Philippines – 7,468
Thailand – 6,326
Canada – 6,146
Turkey – 5,453
Australia – 2,282
New Zealand – 1,385
Ethiopia – 1,271
Greece – 1,263
France – 1,119
Colombia – 1,068
Belgium – 900
South Africa – 826
Netherlands – 819
Luxembourg – 44
Humanitarian aid (not counted in total above)
Denmark (the hospital ship MS Jutlandia) – 600
India
Italy (Ospedale da Campo n° 68)
Norway (NORMASH)
Sweden

 

[oggbashan]

One, which I didn't think would be a problem, was the name for social/subsidised housing - "projects" in the USA but "estates" in the UK.

Which led to me getting called overprivileged in more than one very free and frank exchange of views by email.

After referring to the men working in the grounds of this estate.

In the UK 'estates' can also refer to large developments of houses for sale - not necessarily social or subsidised housing. But an 'estate' can also be a large house surrounded by owned land e.g. a stately home.

The North Foreland Estate in Broadstairs is one of the most exclusive places to live in East Kent. The large detached houses sell for a million pounds or more.

 

[Gorza]

France – 1,119

This will include a special infantry battalion raised for the purpose. It operated under US command, and was decorated by the Americans for its heroism. It was transferred to Indochina and expanded to become the 'Korean Regiment'. It suffered some of the heaviest casualties in Vietnam. It was then posted to Algeria, before being disbanded

 

[jehoram]

I heard somewhere that if you're in England and bump into somebody by accident, you should say "Pardon me," not "Excuse me" (which is common in the US). "Excuse me" comes off as dismissive, like Steve Martin's "Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!"

Is that true, British people? I sure don't want to offend anybody unnecessarily when I'm over there.

 

[Gorza]

I heard somewhere that if you're in England and bump into somebody by accident, you should say "Pardon me," not "Excuse me" (which is common in the US). "Excuse me" comes off as dismissive, like Steve Martin's "Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!"

Is that true, British people? I sure don't want to offend anybody unnecessarily when I'm over there.

No one took me aside and told me the rules. 'Excuse me' sounds like one is asking the other person to stand aside, while 'pardon me' is asking a little forgiveness. A lot of American turns of phrases have found their way here. Many young people will say 'Can I get a coffee?' (or whatever it is). To my fogey British ears, this sounds as if the person is requesting leave to come behind the counter and fix their own beverage. 'Please may I have a coffee?' is what my mother taught me to say.

 

[NaokoSmith]

No one took me aside and told me the rules. 'Excuse me' sounds like one is asking the other person to stand aside, while 'pardon me' is asking a little forgiveness. A lot of American turns of phrases have found their way here. Many young people will say 'Can I get a coffee?' (or whatever it is). To my fogey British ears, this sounds as if the person is requesting leave to come behind the counter and fix their own beverage. 'Please may I have a coffee?' is what my mother taught me to say.

I think it depends how you say it. You can say: "Excuse me," in a polite deprecatory way and then it's fine. Whereas I was watching Bake Off Master Class the other day, and Paul Hollywood teased Mary Berry by suggesting they eat his game pie with some chips. The manner in which she said: "I beg your pardon" was an object lesson in putting someone in their place!

 

[DeYaKen]

I heard somewhere that if you're in England and bump into somebody by accident, you should say "Pardon me," not "Excuse me" (which is common in the US). "Excuse me" comes off as dismissive, like Steve Martin's "Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!"

Is that true, British people? I sure don't want to offend anybody unnecessarily when I'm over there.

If, you bump into someone by accident in Britain you would be expected to say "sorry". "Excuse me" would be used if you would like someone to move so that you can get past, or if you if you need to interrupt a conversation.
"Pardon me" usually follows making a social error. "I beg your pardon" is usually a request to repeat what you've just said.

The confusing bit is when we say things and mean the opposite. It's all in the tone of voice. Something like. " Oh yeah, that's really special" with a sarcastic tone applied to the really. What we mean is that there is nothing special about it.

 

[Handley_Page]

The word which sticks in my mind is "Pissed".
It's not particularly polite; use in polite company might earn you a frown at the least.

As I understand it, Pissed in American means peeved, [annoyed, resentful].

The word can be used two ways in English:-

Pissed, as in drunk (pissed out of his mind, for example).
Pissed off - quite annoyed, disappointed.


PS. I have a feeling that Bell & Hockridge did a superb job with the English translation.

 

[sr71plt]

T

Pissed, as in drunk (pissed out of his mind, for example).
Pissed off - quite annoyed, disappointed.

It's used those same two ways in "American."

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

If, you bump into someone by accident in Britain you would be expected to say "sorry". "Excuse me" would be used if you would like someone to move so that you can get past, or if you if you need to interrupt a conversation.
"Pardon me" usually follows making a social error. "I beg your pardon" is usually a request to repeat what you've just said.

The confusing bit is when we say things and mean the opposite. It's all in the tone of voice. Something like. " Oh yeah, that's really special" with a sarcastic tone applied to the really. What we mean is that there is nothing special about it.

As an American woman married to an extremely polite and well-mannered Englishman, I often come across this British habit of reversed idiom, where what is said is the complete opposite to what is meant; at first, it confused the hell out of me, and while I'm used to it now, it still confuses the hell out of my relatives in Savannah and Charleston; when Will is peeved, puzzled, or nonplussed, his raised eyebrow and soft 'Well, THAT was interesting' or 'excuse me, but did you mean to do that?' is so much more civilized than what I know he really means, which is 'what idiot tree did you fall out of, and did you land on your head?'

My family think he's far too reserved and polite, they think he's being stand-offish, and no amount of telling them otherwise will convince them; they don't understand that his upbringing taught him that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all, and God knows, given the yard-ape antics of some of my relatives, some kind of comment is called for; but he won't comment, in case he offends someone.

When he was with MSF in Papua New Guinea, I got a call from a hospital in Port Moresby to say he'd been injured and was being airlifted to Darwin. Of course I was frantic, but then he called me from Darwin to tell me that 'things got a little fraught there, but not to worry, I'm fine, see you soon.' It was only later I discovered he'd been shot by a tribesman, and had a hole in him you could drive a bus through; he needed extensive thoracic surgery, and was out of action for 5 weeks, but according to him, it was just 'a little misunderstanding'.

I can only surmise that having older brothers who were a Royal Marine Captain and an SAS Lieutenant, his naturally calm and placid nature, and his public school background, all taught him to not complain or overstate his case, but it annoys the hell out of me when he acts as though there's only two possible states of health for him to be in; rude good health, or dead; if he's not dead, then he's perfectly healthy. I constantly get the feeling from him that if his leg fell off he'd mutter 'damn, I wanted that!', then sit down and wait for a new one to grow back. I'm not sure if this is a peculiarly 'British' trait, or it's just my husband who's like that.

 

[Gorza]

As an American woman married to an extremely polite and well-mannered Englishman, I often come across this British habit of reversed idiom, where what is said is the complete opposite to what is meant; at first, it confused the hell out of me, and while I'm used to it now, it still confuses the hell out of my relatives in Savannah and Charleston; when Will is peeved, puzzled, or nonplussed, his raised eyebrow and soft 'Well, THAT was interesting' or 'excuse me, but did you mean to do that?' is so much more civilized than what I know he really means, which is 'what idiot tree did you fall out of, and did you land on your head?'

I've never been to Savannah, but I find the name queerly exotic! We had an academic from Atlanta join a week-long panel in Dublin. Most of us were Irish or British and knew each other well. She had never left the US before, and didn't know us that well. At our first dinner in a restaurant, she was rather quiet. She confided later that she found our accents so impenetrable that she thought we were rudely speaking Irish in front of her.

I can only surmise that having older brothers who were a Royal Marine Captain and an SAS Lieutenant, his naturally calm and placid nature, and his public school background, all taught him to not complain or overstate his case, but it annoys the hell out of me when he acts as though there's only two possible states of health for him to be in; rude good health, or dead; if he's not dead, then he's perfectly healthy. I constantly get the feeling from him that if his leg fell off he'd mutter 'damn, I wanted that!', then sit down and wait for a new one to grow back. I'm not sure if this is a peculiarly 'British' trait, or it's just my husband who's like that.

Most of the GPs I know complain that men are the worst, coming into the practice only when they're at death's door. Of course, doctors make the worst patients.

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

I've never been to Savannah, but I find the name queerly exotic! We had an academic from Atlanta join a week-long panel in Dublin. Most of us were Irish or British and knew each other well. She had never left the US before, and didn't know us that well. At our first dinner in a restaurant, she was rather quiet. She confided later that she found our accents so impenetrable that she thought we were rudely speaking Irish in front of her.


Most of the GPs I know complain that men are the worst, coming into the practice only when they're at death's door. Of course, doctors make the worst patients.

I heard that; Will was critically ill last year, and when he was recovering, he was the worst patient in the world, insisting on steak, rare, fried in butter, ice cream, pancakes and syrup, smoked sausage, french fries, the fact he was in a critical care unit with tubes in his mouth, nose, chest and abdomen didn't seem to register; the number of times I wanted to set the dogs on him and call it an accident...

My practice is in rural Oxfordshire, and a high percentage of the locals look blankly at me when I say something; my Southern accent seems to baffle them, yet they must hear it all the time on TV, surely? I only have a soft rural southern accent (I did most of my growing-up about 60 miles south-west of Louisville KY, in south-western Indiana, near the Hoosier National Forest), not the slurred twang my folks in Thibodaux, Louisiana have; even I can barely understand my Cajun folks, especially when they start in on the Bayou-talk; that mix of archaic and slang French and distorted English is just too baffling sometimes...

 

[49greg]

Australians served in Korea too. Probably another set of confusing language differences as well.

I wonder if the US people are led to think only US forces are/were in Afghanistan and other wars since WW1.

I,ve seen war movies from the fifties and sixties that refer to Greeks as well as references to the British and Commonwealth nations. The TV series Mash had an episode with Turkish troops being treated at their hospital.

I can still remember how the Turkish forces thank the Mash Unit by sending a feast of Turkish food. Colonel Henry Blake calls the Turkish Commander to thank him for the Food, "everything tasted good, but the olives must have gone bad because they were all black." - canned laughter ensued.

As for Afghanistan, I've heard or read the occasional news story that refers to the Brits and other forces. Obviously not as many as with US troops, but enough that no-one should get the idea that's it the US alone.

There were Australians in Viet Nam as well. We had a C.O. in Germany where I was stationed who mentioned working with an SAS unit from Australian.

 

[Handley_Page]

Entered in Error

 

[Gorza]

Entered in Error

Is that the title of your latest story? Please link!

 

[Handley_Page]

Is that the title of your latest story? Please link!

'Fraid not, mate.
I raised a question that would be better done via a PM to the person concerned.

But it does give me an idea. . . .

 

[beachbum1958]

I,ve seen war movies from the fifties and sixties that refer to Greeks as well as references to the British and Commonwealth nations. The TV series Mash had an episode with Turkish troops being treated at their hospital.

I can still remember how the Turkish forces thank the Mash Unit by sending a feast of Turkish food. Colonel Henry Blake calls the Turkish Commander to thank him for the Food, "everything tasted good, but the olives must have gone bad because they were all black." - canned laughter ensued.

As for Afghanistan, I've heard or read the occasional news story that refers to the Brits and other forces. Obviously not as many as with US troops, but enough that no-one should get the idea that's it the US alone.

There were Australians in Viet Nam as well. We had a C.O. in Germany where I was stationed who mentioned working with an SAS unit from Australian.

During the Iraq conflict, 46,000 British Armed Forces were deployed in total. In Afghanistan, the British contingent was maintained at 9,500, plus 500 special forces, a limit set by an Afghan Government mandate, concentrated mainly around Camp Bastion, but also deployed to Lashkar Gah. In total, 453 British service personnel were killed while on active operations in Afghanistan.

Apart from the United States, 50 other nations from NATO, non-NATO, and EAPC sent troops and support personnel to make up ISAF, the International Security Assistance Force, from countries as diverse as Bosnia, Singapore, Armenia, and Ireland, and I even met some Mongolian soldiers while I was there.

 

[gwenrider]

Wow
I have no idea