Christianity - Rewiring my Brain

[Harold_Hill]

Left web site due to censored messages by chargergirl

 

[Emerson40]

The overall murder rate has gone down, but the irrationality of the violence has escalated drastically. You have to keep in mind that the attack on 9/11 was also murder. Thousands in a single act of insanity.

I take it you voted for Obama. How are you doing with the rose colored glasses?

Again with 9/11. If you are keeping a tally, there has been more blood shed through the centuries by those worshipping your God.

I'm not picking sides, just reminding you that large scale 'murders' have happened in the name of many gods, including your, number one draft choice of Gods.

I don't live in France or Sweden.

Would there be a difference here? We're talking about 'the' creator? Does your God fly with an American passport?

 

[nymph817]

Let me know if you have any experience with this and if you can help. I do *not* want to be convinced that I'm going through a trial from God. Fuck that. In my opinion, if God does exist, he's a real asshole.

One of the biggest problems I think a lot of people fail to realize is that if God truly is 'judging' us by our actions and deeds then it is certainly likely that He is ENCUMBERED by human emotion and spirit.

And for all sake of argument and understanding, that should not be the case. If God is all powerful and all-knowing, I really don't think He gives a damn what we do so long as we are HAPPY.

Certainly I don't think He wants us to hurt ourselves or others, and if you are in a mindset sexual kink that worries you. Find out if it is YOU that is worried about it more or HIM.

And if it is not you, that you are not the one that is really worried, then as a mortal, can we say we truly understand the intricate and often unexplainable actions or beliefs we have of God ?

I would say no. We are our own worst enemy. There is no devil except that which we design within ourselves, our own perdition. Be free from your guilt. Enjoy in the pleasure that God has given you the ability to do. Enjoy LIFE !

Save the matter of the gods to the gods. And at that time when we may leave our mortal coil, at THAT time then we may shift our thinking towards lofty and ethereal thoughts and not until.

The very worst thing any person can ever place upon another or themselves and that is GUILT. The past cannot be changed. The future is uncertain. The very NOW is a gift. That is why it is called the PRESENT.

In the present, do the very best that you can and damn the ghosts of your past which prevent you from entering the happy and pleasurable future.

 

[NightL]

I don't know why - I just had the urge to start reading this thread again replacing "He", "Him" & "God" with "dog poop"...

TBH, I was doing that from the start.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The overall murder rate has gone down, but the irrationality of the violence has escalated drastically.

I take it you're white, then.

American history only looks peaceful because of what we choose to forget. Everybody knows what happened in NYC in 2001 - how many remember what happened in Tulsa, 1921? Terrorists razed thirty-five city blocks, threw bombs from the air, killed around three hundred people, but you don't hear much about it.

Go back a hundred years, and white people - most of them Christian - weren't just lynching black folk (more than the death toll from 9/11). They were selling picture postcards of the events with cutesy little poems about what happens to Negroes who don't stay in their place, and plenty of folk were happy to pose for the cameras because they knew nobody was going to come after them for it. When Jessie Washington was lynched by a mob of fifteen thousand, little children pulled the teeth out of his charred corpse to sell as souvenirs.

I don't see much rational about that.

 

[Hypoxia]

The Christian church has been weakened everywhere.

Ain't so such thing. There are zillions of denominations, sects, factions, none agreeing on practice, theology, or even which biblical texts are canonical or most significant. Some such groups are immensely powerful in their locales -- and as was pointed out, religiosity does not correlate with prosperity. The poor and abused are much more likely to be religious than are the affluent. It's a cheap comfort.

As for the number and variety of extant gods, even biblical texts note their existence -- and if you check a KJV concordance, you'll see no entries for "false gods". False religions and prophets, yes, but not false gods. Note that the 1st commandment (or 2nd, depending on which version you read) tells its Hebrew subjects not to put other gods BEFORE {YHWH}. Thus we see an acknowledgment of other gods and a recognition that they will be worshiped as minor deities -- sort of like praying to saints for miracles.

Use whatever logic you like. The facts are that humans have invented many gods, morphed them into many forms, renamed and reorg'ed them, even merged them -- as {YHWH} is a melding of Jah and El. Thus you have The God Of Israel, a perfectly valid job title.

You really should read those biblical texts a little closer. All of them, not just those selected and arranged by committees of Imperial Wizards of the State Religion of the Roman Empire, and revised by later editorial groups.

 

[jaF0]

HH's credibility went out the window with the 9 and O references.

No need to read his posts anymore.

 

[jaF0]

I take it you're white, then.

Probably a Birther too. And a supporter of Krazy Kim.

Clear example of why Thumpers should be ignored.

 

[suckonsimon]

Yasuo,

Your last post on the thread, that 'untangle' of your heritage - impressive.

You are making me think what a totally different culture of church we have in Europe in general and in my experience in England. I'm reminded of when the British Prime Minister closest in affiliation to American Republican views - Margaret Thatcher - damned the stance the English churches were taking on issues of exclusion, poverty, education, industrial relations, global cooperation - as "Marxist". I guess the worldview and set of priorities which European communities of faith are working with is just so totally different from the stuff you are expressing.

 

[Harold_Hill]

Left web site due to censored messages by chargergirl

 

[Eilan]

Seeing "Christians" on social media gleefully rejoicing and almost frothing at the mouth at Muslim pilgrims getting trampled to death reminds me of why I have no use for religion, organized or otherwise.

 

[Yasuo_]

Seeing "Christians" on social media gleefully rejoicing and almost frothing at the mouth at Muslim pilgrims getting trampled to death reminds me of why I have no use for religion, organized or otherwise.

Oh Muslims are worse, in my opinion. Have you seen the Richard Dawkin's documentary on the destruction caused by religion? It's called "The God Delusion." The interview he had with the Muslim was terrifying to me personally.

 

[suckonsimon]

Seeing "Christians" on social media gleefully rejoicing and almost frothing at the mouth at Muslim pilgrims getting trampled to death reminds me of why I have no use for religion, organized or otherwise.

I'm glad you put your Christians in "marks". Come on: you know full well that no Christians are rejoicing about the tragedy today.

It's a strange thing on this thread: the happy bashing that's going on with no foundation in reality. I've been on the inside of the Christian movement most of my life and in several different contexts and so much of the stuff being said about us on the thread is, to use the language of Lit, "fantasy". If some atheists need to fantasize about the Jesus people and their alleged twisted ways, the interesting thing is that we are not offended.

 

[jaF0]

I'm glad you put your Christians in "marks". Come on: you know full well that no Christians are rejoicing about the tragedy today.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1231196

 

[suckonsimon]

And a jerk remark on an NYPD site tells us something about Christians? They're Americans I grant you; but I know better than to deduce from that some kind of hate gene in Americans. The fantasy continues.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm glad you put your Christians in "marks". Come on: you know full well that no Christians are rejoicing about the tragedy today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

[suckonsimon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

That's fun, Bt! - as happens I am one, so the more so.

 

[Eilan]

I'm glad you put your Christians in "marks". Come on: you know full well that no Christians are rejoicing about the tragedy today.

It's a strange thing on this thread: the happy bashing that's going on with no foundation in reality. I've been on the inside of the Christian movement most of my life and in several different contexts and so much of the stuff being said about us on the thread is, to use the language of Lit, "fantasy". If some atheists need to fantasize about the Jesus people and their alleged twisted ways, the interesting thing is that we are not offended.

To be honest, I'm not interested in your No True Scotsmen. The people that I encountered yesterday are, in their opinions, every bit as Christian as you are.

Here's what I want to see from Christians like you: instead of coming into threads like this and saying, "We're not all like that," you need to be telling your coreligionists that their behavior is unacceptable because it makes all of you look bad. Call out bad behavior when you see it. Don't just come in here simpering to me that you're "not all like that."

Furthermore, you don't get to mansplain anything about Christianity in the US, particularly Evangelical fundamentalist Bible Belt Christianity, to me. My personal experience with Christians isn't "fantasy," as you put it.

 

[suckonsimon]

To be honest, I'm not interested in your No True Scotsmen. The people that I encountered yesterday are, in their opinions, every bit as Christian as you are.

Here's what I want to see from Christians like you: instead of coming into threads like this and saying, "We're not all like that," you need to be telling your coreligionists that their behavior is unacceptable because it makes all of you look bad. Call out bad behavior when you see it. Don't just come in here simpering to me that you're "not all like that."

Furthermore, you don't get to mansplain anything about Christianity in the US, particularly Evangelical fundamentalist Bible Belt Christianity, to me. My personal experience with Christians isn't "fantasy," as you put it.

I do when I see it, Eilan.
I feel I've offended you. Apologies.
You're spot on about European Christians such as me knowing nothing about US Bible Belt Christianity. I guess I'm reeling from what the OP is saying about his experience, because it bears no relation at all to what I know.

 

[Messier82]

My $0.02 worth.
I've been though an especially difficult time over the past 12 months (it's still ongoing TBH).

Something came my way which made me think I'd give The Alpha Course a look-see. A local Baptist Tabernacle had one due to start.
I stayed with it for the follow on course (naturally nick-named the Beta course but really known as Growing in Christ).
After seven or eight months I let it all go; my experiences as a non-Christian looking into it, with a good deal of sincerity, are as follows:

The Bible isn't to be seen as a 'guide' but as "The Inspired Word of God" and is therefore true in all aspects, you're allowed to question it (unlike the Koran) but only so your mind can be changed, any rational points you raise will not change the perspective of a believer.
The Bible must be accepted as actual historical fact. It is not open to analogous interpretation, especially where 'miracles' are concerned.

If you're of a scientific persuasion then you will find a strange dichotomy; modern Christianity accepts Astrophysics ie we aren't the centre of the universe but refutes evolution as it conflicts with the Bible.

There are practiced and pat dismissals (which have no scientific basis) for points of science you raise which causes discomfort to a believer; ie carbon 14 dating is a myth, the only evidence for evolution is within a species not between a species. The fact that those espousing these dismissals do not understand elemental isotopes nor what constitutes the scientific definition of 'a species' is seen as irrelevant.

If you do not 'experience God' then the problem lies within you and it is your mind which must be altered, ie you must try harder and make yourself believe. At this point it occurred to me that if it was possible to make myself believe in something which has no rational basis then I would probably be in need of psychological therapy.

On the plus side, I do think the notion of fellowship the church folk have is admirable and I think Christian values are a decent code for living (my children attend CofE school).

However, being among folk who are high on religion when you are untouched by it, is no different to being the only sober person at a wild party. Sitting on the back pew of 'The Tab' while a happy-clappy, hand-waving-in-the-air congregation give thanks for the 'gift of everlasting life', 'God's grace' and 'boundless joy' ranks as one of the most depressing experiences of my adult life.

If God does exist I don't think "He" (it's always a male isn't it?) would be content being defined by the constraints of Organized Religion.

 

[mellowyellows]

Talk to the God you think doesn't exist and if he answers you.....if you listen......then you will know he is real. If it is a struggle then two opposing forces must exist.

 

[philos]

Not all Christians are of such a fundamentalist bent

 

[suckonsimon]

My $0.02 worth.

Messier, I guess you're aware of this: the church which supports the school your children go to makes a very different use of the Scriptures and especially in this regard: the wonderful myths of the opening of the Old Testament are read as ancient, pre-scientific, inspired attempts at answering some of the "why" questions of our existence, with no attempt at all at answering the "how" questions addressed in our own times by scientific enquiry.
It also honours the place of those whose faith journey does not include 'experience' but is rather about question and exploration and practice of unselfishness.
It is of course the church which gave birth to the Alpha Course. How about you go full circle and see if that kind of expression of seeking the way of Jesus cuts with you?

ps ... why is it that fundamentalist creationist extremist versions of Christianity are the ones which surface constantly on the web, while the version which is on the street corner and in church-aided schools and the chaplaincies of prisons and universities and hospitals, the version supporting the Fair Trade movement and untold attempts to address the inequalities and hurts of humanity and bridge the great divides between cultures - that version, my version, doesn't get a look in when it comes to web-based global discussion?

I really am asking the question!

 

[jaF0]

My $0.02 worth.
I've been though an especially difficult time over the past 12 months (it's still ongoing TBH).

Something came my way which made me think I'd give The Alpha Course a look-see. A local Baptist Tabernacle had one due to start.

Baptists are among the worst.

If you go to another place and talk to another Clergymember, you'll get another interpretation.

It will still be poppycock though.

 

[Yasuo_]

What I have learned over the past few days have been very interesting. Most of you probably already knew this, but I followed blindly.

The 4 Gospels of the Bible were originally 50+ Gospels. The 4 chosen were based on politics, power, and profit. In one of the earliest Gospels written, The Book of Thomas, Jesus said that your relationship with God is personal and that there is no need for churches. Bishops and other religious authority figures found that to be threatening and called it heresy. Furthermore, the man responsible for Rome's acceptance of Christianity was a devout Pagan and all of the traditions we accept today are more of Pagan origin. Some would argue that Jesus himself would not even recognize Christianity if he were to see it today. The Halo, the entire story and symbols of Christmas, the bloodshed, Communion - it's all centered around the sun god Mithra (son of Apollo).

Constantine, the Roman Emperor, was a power hungry man who adopted Christianity solely for political unity and personal power. He went on to create his own city where his face was the face of the gods. Never did he live a life of Christ. Never did he believe the teachings of Christ. Yet he is the man responsible for the creation of the "Holy and Perfect Inspired Word of God."

And it's not to be questioned, not to be considered anything else except perfect. It's a book created by organized sin.

Sadly, the only reasonable argument for the source of Perfection is "God works in mysterious ways."

Why? Why is that acceptable?