Some numbers you indie publishers and self publishing authors may find intersting

[HuckPilgrim]

I just did a blog post that includes some numbers for royalties and units out that some of you may find interesting. I did a similar post a few years ago and it went over well. I have always admired writers who were willing to discuss numbers, so I'm happy to be in a position to do the same.

If you don't have time to look, here is the skinny: the money has really dropped off in the last two years, at least for me. I have some ideas why that is and I'm not too concerned. I'm still having fun and I'm learning a lot.

Anyhow, the last time I posted, I got some great feedback that helped me compose new charts for this time. If you've got any questions I'm happy to discuss. Leave a comment on the blog or respond here. If you have insights about the data, I'd love to hear your ideas.

https://huckpilgrim.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/more-numbers-that-some-of-you-may-find-interesting/

Thanks!
HP

 

[Carnal_Flower]

If you tell us the table is "in thousands" I'll be really impressed.

 

[redzinger]

Ooh, seeing as you know about Amazon stuff, what's this about people you connect with on social media not being able to review your books?

I'm not aware of it happening to me (yet!), but my review numbers are low. Most of my new readers who review enthusiastically seem to find me on Twitter and Facebook around the same time.

Thanks. Interesting post, btw.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I have found the purchase of my erotic content has dropped off in the past year, even though I have added new content. I have also noticed an increase in the purchase of my non-erotic content.

 

[DreamCloud]

I just did a blog post that includes some numbers for royalties and units out that some of you may find interesting. I did a similar post a few years ago and it went over well. I have always admired writers who were willing to discuss numbers, so I'm happy to be in a position to do the same.

If you don't have time to look, here is the skinny: the money has really dropped off in the last two years, at least for me. I have some ideas why that is and I'm not too concerned. I'm still having fun and I'm learning a lot.

Anyhow, the last time I posted, I got some great feedback that helped me compose new charts for this time. If you've got any questions I'm happy to discuss. Leave a comment on the blog or respond here. If you have insights about the data, I'd love to hear your ideas.

https://huckpilgrim.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/more-numbers-that-some-of-you-may-find-interesting/

Thanks!
HP

Very enlightening. I thank you for your candor.
Do you do your own promotion?

 

[HuckPilgrim]

If you tell us the table is "in thousands" I'll be really impressed.

Hi Carnal Flower. I'm not sure what you're telling me.

The money is in USD.

 

[HuckPilgrim]

Ooh, seeing as you know about Amazon stuff, what's this about people you connect with on social media not being able to review your books?

I'm not aware of it happening to me (yet!), but my review numbers are low. Most of my new readers who review enthusiastically seem to find me on Twitter and Facebook around the same time.

Thanks. Interesting post, btw.

Amazon doesn't allow phony reviews. The problem is that it's not always obvious what a phony review is. I get the occasional review, but it's difficult for me to get them, too. And then I seem to attract a lot of crazy 1 star "this is pornography" type reviews. lol.

I don't do much with Facebook or twitter as Huck Pilgrim. How do you use those for book sales? Do they help?

 

[HuckPilgrim]

I have found the purchase of my erotic content has dropped off in the past year, even though I have added new content. I have also noticed an increase in the purchase of my non-erotic content.

Yup, I've seen the same. I have a few techy titles and they seem to be doing quite well. Porn has definitely dropped off this year for me, but it's been a trend for the last two years. Free sales aren't as good as they used to be for generating paid sales, but it's getting a little better this year than last, so I'm hopeful things will turn around.

 

[HuckPilgrim]

Very enlightening. I thank you for your candor.
Do you do your own promotion?

Ha, I really don't do much promotion, but I should. I use a pen name and it's just hard to figure out how to really promote the work. I suppose I would have to create new social media accounts, but I haven't gone that far.

Do you know about promotion? I'd love some tips!

 

[DreamCloud]

Ha, I really don't do much promotion, but I should. I use a pen name and it's just hard to figure out how to really promote the work. I suppose I would have to create new social media accounts, but I haven't gone that far.

Do you know about promotion? I'd love some tips!

I know nothing about marketing. That's why I asked. I was hoping for the same insight you're looking for. I assume it is the most difficult part of being a successful Author. It is the most difficult aspect of almost every business.

 

[sr71plt]

Amazon doesn't allow phony reviews. The problem is that it's not always obvious what a phony review is. I get the occasional review, but it's difficult for me to get them, too. And then I seem to attract a lot of crazy 1 star "this is pornography" type reviews. lol.

I don't do much with Facebook or twitter as Huck Pilgrim. How do you use those for book sales? Do they help?

I would call an Amazon review posted for an anthology by one of the writers of the anthology phony. Yet I see examples where Amazon has let them stand--even with the reviewer admitted to be one of the authors.

Amazon also makes an effort to keep any known author name from writing a review of any other book at all, which I find weird and is why I registered under a name not used as an author for any of my works.

So, Amazon is just sort of haphazard about it all.

 

[sr71plt]

I just did a blog post that includes some numbers for royalties and units out that some of you may find interesting. I did a similar post a few years ago and it went over well. I have always admired writers who were willing to discuss numbers, so I'm happy to be in a position to do the same.

If you don't have time to look, here is the skinny: the money has really dropped off in the last two years, at least for me. I have some ideas why that is and I'm not too concerned. I'm still having fun and I'm learning a lot.

Anyhow, the last time I posted, I got some great feedback that helped me compose new charts for this time. If you've got any questions I'm happy to discuss. Leave a comment on the blog or respond here. If you have insights about the data, I'd love to hear your ideas.

https://huckpilgrim.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/more-numbers-that-some-of-you-may-find-interesting/

Thanks!
HP

Thanks for posting that. My numbers are quite a bit better, but probably not when you do the stats on a per-work basis. I've managed to keep good comparative numbers by steadily feeding the market with new works (and adding on underserved fetish genres). An up side of e-booking over print is that the backlist tends to remain active for longer. As you indicated, though, even with twenty-five or so new listings a year, my earnings on erotica hit a high about a year and a half ago. Still tolerable, but Amazon isn't as dominant in sales now as it once was (my books go to six or seven major distribution services, depending on genre--and I think that having many points of sales and platforms that can be ordered is key to making a profit).

I think this is natural and I think I saw it coming years ago--counseling folks to get on the wave early if they were going to want to get a profit out of this (this said, there's every reason to do it just for the fun of it--and to break even in the e-world in a way you never could have done in the soley print world). You can only stuff your e-readers with so much content before you realize you've collected more than you're going to read. And I think that now has set in and readers are content with what they have already and/or have already established the authors who they are going to follow.

The next wave opportunity will come in some new breakout mode or system or breaking into new demand areas that we can't presently see--or those of us who don't get out there first in the field don't see yet.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yup, I've seen the same. I have a few techy titles and they seem to be doing quite well. Porn has definitely dropped off this year for me, but it's been a trend for the last two years. Free sales aren't as good as they used to be for generating paid sales, but it's getting a little better this year than last, so I'm hopeful things will turn around.

Here are my Smashwords numbers on just my erotic content...

2011 $49.95
2012 $884.85
2013 $505.49
2014 $422.98
2015 $211.64

My Amazon numbers are about 3x these for my erotic content. And that's without any promotion.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

In financial reports instead of listing long figures they will say "in thousands" which means add two zeroes to the end of all figures listed.

I never see how much people earn with e-booking and I have to say I am really surprised at how meagre it is--this is not meant as a judgment of you or anyone. It's just surprising. I know some earn more/less . . . or maybe I was just being idealistic? Whatever, it's great to be earning!

Hi Carnal Flower. I'm not sure what you're telling me.

The money is in USD.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Now Pilot I am sure that review was entirely objective! Reminds me of the Comments section on lit, with half coming from known associates.

But that is sort of why real publishing houses solicit jacket reviews from outside writers and critics and don't put the author, their friends or relatives on the cover raving about how HOT a novel it is.

I would call an Amazon review posted for an anthology by one of the writers of the anthology phony. Yet I see examples where Amazon has let them stand--even with the reviewer admitted to be one of the authors.

Amazon also makes an effort to keep any known author name from writing a review of any other book at all, which I find weird and is why I registered under a name not used as an author for any of my works.

So, Amazon is just sort of haphazard about it all.

 

[TxRad]

Now Pilot I am sure that review was entirely objective! Reminds me of the Comments section on lit, with half coming from known associates.

But that is sort of why real publishing houses solicit jacket reviews from outside writers and critics and don't put the author, their friends or relatives on the cover raving about how HOT a novel it is.

LOL

Real publishing houses write their own jackets and have their pet critics and other writers do the endorsements. Been there, seen that. Got the covers to prove it.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Hmmm perhaps I was confusing it with academic publishing

LOL

Real publishing houses write their own jackets and have their pet critics and other writers do the endorsements. Been there, seen that. Got the covers to prove it.

 

[sr71plt]

Hmmm perhaps I was confusing it with academic publishing

Nope. I've worked in academic publishing. The publishers have their stables of reviewers and blurb writers, usually based on a "you scratch my back/I'll scratch yours" system.

 

[legerdemer]

Hmmm perhaps I was confusing it with academic publishing

Even in academic publishing, it's hard to avoid the issue. Especially there - it's a small world where everyone more or less knows everyone else. At least in my field. You have to rely on the integrity of the reviewer and their belief in their own reputation. Some are honest, some aren't, and there's a huge gray zone.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Kind of true, but soliciting a review from (supposedly objective) critics is a bit different from self-published authors reviewing and blurbing their own stuff.

Nope. I've worked in academic publishing. The publishers have their stables of reviewers and blurb writers, usually based on a "you scratch my back/I'll scratch yours" system.

 

[sr71plt]

True, but I have no idea how that fits into this thread discussion or counters anything anyone else has posted.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

The question of reviews and phony reviews came up; the sub-thread led from there. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

True, but I have no idea how that fits into this thread discussion or counters anything anyone else has posted.

 

[HuckPilgrim]

Here are my Smashwords numbers on just my erotic content...

2011 $49.95
2012 $884.85
2013 $505.49
2014 $422.98
2015 $211.64

My Amazon numbers are about 3x these for my erotic content. And that's without any promotion.

Hey, there! Thanks Zeb! I appreciate your willingness to share. What are you doing at Amazon to make it so much more profitable? 3x is pretty good work. Do you have a lot of titles? A big fan base in a particular kink? Do you use Kindle select (exclusive sales at Amazon store)?

Sorry to hammer you with so many questions, but these are exactly the kind of discussions I'm interested in having.

 

[HuckPilgrim]

In financial reports instead of listing long figures they will say "in thousands" which means add two zeroes to the end of all figures listed.

I never see how much people earn with e-booking and I have to say I am really surprised at how meagre it is--this is not meant as a judgment of you or anyone. It's just surprising. I know some earn more/less . . . or maybe I was just being idealistic? Whatever, it's great to be earning!

I thought it might be something along those lines. Nope, the numbers I posted are just those numbers, no extra digits tacked onto the end. It does seem meager, even to me!

But this isn't my day job. And it's WAY better than the money you get doing straight fiction at the little literary magazines. I've done that for years and years and even published a (non-erotic) book with a small press and my earnings in erotica in the first 12 months far outstip what I made doing that kind of writing. Plus I feel as if I can build this up if I keep publishing. And you never know what the next title will do.

 

[HuckPilgrim]

Thanks for posting that. My numbers are quite a bit better, but probably not when you do the stats on a per-work basis. I've managed to keep good comparative numbers by steadily feeding the market with new works (and adding on underserved fetish genres). An up side of e-booking over print is that the backlist tends to remain active for longer. As you indicated, though, even with twenty-five or so new listings a year, my earnings on erotica hit a high about a year and a half ago. Still tolerable, but Amazon isn't as dominant in sales now as it once was (my books go to six or seven major distribution services, depending on genre--and I think that having many points of sales and platforms that can be ordered is key to making a profit).

Thanks for posting Pilot! I appreciate your analysis and willingness to share your experience. Twenty five new works a year is a HUGE effort. Congratulations on being so prolific. I think it's smart to avoid Amazon's exclusive store, but I'm thinking about trying to get one or two titles in there. They're not the big player they used to be. As you can see, I've never made a lot of money there, but it's not so small I am willing to give them up either.

It sounds like you're in a groove and are making good money. If you don't mind me asking, do you earn a significant portion of your living expenses writing erotica?

Even if you have some other income, how long did it take you to get yourself in this position with erotica? I'm hoping to make a name for myself by outlasting all the others, if I can just find a nice sustainable pace.