Quotes

[LaGazzaLadra]

Hi,

I just got a story rejected because I use the British way of handling quotes. In comparison:

'Hi', she said, 'my name is Jane.' (British)
"Hi," she said, "my name is Jane." (American)

The thing is, I write British English, not American. I also write 'colour' and not 'color'. And that includes the way I write quotes.

To be honest, I think it's rather silly to reject a story solely based on this, especially after I've taken so much care with the looks of the story; a lot more than some of the stories I've read on this site, for sure.

 

[Weird Harold]

resubmit with a note in the comments field that you use British punctuations and spelling. Alternatively, send a PM to Laurel and ask for instructions.

 

[Tigersman]

British

I have edited for a couple of authors who use the British method for spelling and punctuation. At first until it was explained to me what they were doing, I was changing the punctuation to the American method. Now I leave it alone or add the correct British method when they misses some punctuation. Neither of my authors have had their works rejected due to spelling or punctuation.

 

[SamScribble]

I've been using the British English conventions since ... well, sixty-something years. Just be consistent. And maybe, since it looks like your first story, put a note in the Notes box.

Also 'Hi', she said, 'my name is Jane'really should be 'Hi,' she said, etc - not that I think you would have been knocked back for putting the comma in the wrong place.

 

[Handley_Page]

This sounds suspect, but others have the right of it, IMO.

I recommend some preamble which clearly lays things out for all readers.
For example:-
The story is set in England and the people are English so they speak English English.
Trying to ‘translate’ it for overseas readers is not an easy option.
This is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to real people or events is purely coincidental.
All parties are over eighteen years of age.
This story is intended for an adult audience. If adult stories are against your personal code, stop now and go find a different story.

I'm often tempted to add this sort of thing:-
No authors were harmed in the writing of this story.

 

[Learin]

This sounds suspect, but others have the right of it, IMO.

I recommend some preamble which clearly lays things out for all readers.
For example:-
The story is set in England and the people are English so they speak English English.
Trying to ‘translate’ it for overseas readers is not an easy option.
This is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to real people or events is purely coincidental.
All parties are over eighteen years of age.
This story is intended for an adult audience. If adult stories are against your personal code, stop now and go find a different story.

I'm often tempted to add this sort of thing:-
No authors were harmed in the writing of this story.

No satisfaction guarantee to the readers?

 

[oggbashan]

No satisfaction guarantee to the readers?

They get what they paid for.

They paid nothing, so anything they get from the story is a bonus.

 

[Learin]

They get what they paid for.

They paid nothing, so anything they get from the story is a bonus.

That's just about what I expected.

 

[oggbashan]

Hi,

I just got a story rejected because I use the British way of handling quotes. In comparison:

'Hi', she said, 'my name is Jane.' (British)
"Hi," she said, "my name is Jane." (American)

The thing is, I write British English, not American. I also write 'colour' and not 'color'. And that includes the way I write quotes.

To be honest, I think it's rather silly to reject a story solely based on this, especially after I've taken so much care with the looks of the story; a lot more than some of the stories I've read on this site, for sure.

I write in British English but I use your second (American) version for dialogue which is also acceptable in British English.

I use single quotation marks 'The thing is, I write British English, not American.' for quotation.

This Wiki article suggests in the table that the US version is an alternative British version as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark

Because I am writing for Literotica, I use the US (or alternative British) quotation marks for direct speech.

Although I write and spell in British, I modify my writing slightly for Literotica. I try to avoid words that have different meanings in UK and US English e.g. fanny. I try to write in a more international style because I know stories on Literotica are read all over the world, and US English is generally acceptable.

Those trolls who object violently to British English are usually from the US.

 

[karaline]

Hi,

I just got a story rejected because I use the British way of handling quotes. In comparison:

'Hi', she said, 'my name is Jane.' (British)
"Hi," she said, "my name is Jane." (American)

The thing is, I write British English, not American. I also write 'colour' and not 'color'. And that includes the way I write quotes.

To be honest, I think it's rather silly to reject a story solely based on this, especially after I've taken so much care with the looks of the story; a lot more than some of the stories I've read on this site, for sure.

I was unaware of the British system, I've always unwittingly used the american system. You learn something new everyday.

 

[redzinger]

I've used singles and not been rejected.

I've never seen the comma put there before though.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Hi,

I just got a story rejected because I use the British way of handling quotes. In comparison:

'Hi', she said, 'my name is Jane.' (British)
"Hi," she said, "my name is Jane." (American)

I've never had a problem with stories submitted in Australian English; as Harold suggests, you might include a comment in the Notes field pointing out that you're writing in UK English.

However, your first example there isn't correct for UK English either. It should be:

'Hi,' she said, 'my name is Jane.'

Note the comma placement.

Authority: https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/punctuation-in-direct-speech

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll go over it with search/replace and change the placement of the commas accordingly, because the lot of it is where the comma is actually part of the speech. Good thing it's just over 10,000 words.

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

Just one question, though, about the specifics of British English spelling. Going over the text, most of it is in this form:

‘Yes, it is’, I replied. ‘I wouldn’t mind having one.'

Actual quote from the doomed story

If you have a look the guidelines from this site: http://www.gsbe.co.uk/grammar-quotation-marks.html (which, admittedly, is just another site on the interwebs), my use of quotation marks is actually consistent with that.

Disclaimer: I'm not a native speaker of English, but I'm damn good at it nevertheless.

I just found it rather peculiar that one particular prolific author in the incest/taboo consistently gets away with writing 'a couple minutes/years/times' instead of 'a couple of', yet the use of punctuation, which is considered correct in the country where the language originates from, was a reason for rejection.

 

[sr71plt]

The British system is quite convoluted on rendering of quotes (including whether the comma goes outside or inside the quote mark). This is an American-based Web site that uses American style itself. There's no particular reason the editor should be well versed in a convoluted British style. The note probably will work, but the British system on where to place the comma/why just is hard to grasp (even for British authors, I've found out when editing for British publishers). The single quote issue for dialogue doesn't seem to confuse American readers as much anymore and, in contrast to when I first began editing for publishers, whereas once we had convert the quotes to the American system when the book was republished in the States, now publishers tend to leave the single quotes (but they do still fold the comma inside the quote all the time, because the British system on that is just too hard for readers to comprehend).

 

[rjordan]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll go over it with search/replace and change the placement of the commas accordingly, because the lot of it is where the comma is actually part of the speech. Good thing it's just over 10,000 words.

That would be the solution for single vs double quotes too. Just write using what you are comfortable with, then search and replace to fit what's required.

However, the easiest would be to clarify what Laurel is asking for with a note in the submission or a PM to her.

rj

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

The British system is quite convoluted on rendering of quotes (including whether the comma goes outside or inside the quote mark). This is an American-based Web site that uses American style itself. There's no particular reason the editor should be well versed in a convoluted British style. The note probably will work, but the British system on where to place the comma/why just is hard to grasp (even for British authors, I've found out when editing for British publishers). The single quote issue for dialogue doesn't seem to confuse American readers as much anymore and, in contrast to when I first began editing for publishers, whereas once we had convert the quotes to the American system when the book was republished in the States, now publishers tend to leave the single quotes (but they do still fold the comma inside the quote all the time, because the British system on that is just too hard for readers to comprehend).

This could be summarised as 'Americans have trouble reading English'.

And whether it's an American-based site is not particularly relevant, I think. For as long as Americans have been building computer software and web sites, I've had to deal with ZIP codes (which don't exist outside the USA), states (which don't exist or are irrelevant in many countries), non-ISO paper sizes, imperial measurements, and who knows what else.

That's all fine, but I do draw the line at having to change perfectly correct punctuation to something that appears to me as unnatural. In the end, it's my story. The British system is, in fact, logical and based on just a few rules. It's based on grammar, whereas the American system is based on typesetting.

In the end, the root of the problem is that there's no English equivalent of the Académie française. There's no central organisation that decrees what the one correct form of English is, so it's no great surprise that you end up with a lot of regional differences. But the point is: it's not incorrect.

Anyway, I'll go over the story, see if the quotation is consistent, but not actually change it to a different system. If it would get rejected again, that would be the end of it.

 

[sr71plt]

This could be summarised as 'Americans have trouble reading English'.

And whether it's an American-based site is not particularly relevant, I think.

And this could be summarized as snotty. It is, in fact, an American site--and privately owned--Laurel has no obligation to run your story at all. As the publisher here, she could easily require that everyone adapt to a single publishing system rather than make any effort to accommodate to you at all.

I've lived as much time in British areas as American, and of the two, the Brits can be the snottiest. The Americans are just normally so insular that they don't know there are differences. Brits tend to act superior, as if they still had an empire, and that no variations to theirs are relevant or acceptable.

I suggest you go find a British site, where you can feel comfortable and superior or start up your own site so that you don't have to follow anyone else's rules.

 

[oggbashan]

And this could be summarized as snotty. It is, in fact, an American site--and privately owned--Laurel has no obligation to run your story at all. I've lived as much time in British areas as American, and of the two, the Brits can be the snottiest. The Americans are just normally so insular that they don't know there are differences. Brits tend to act superior, as if they still had an empire, and that no variations to theirs are relevant or acceptable.

I suggest you go find a British site, where you can feel comfortable and superior.

Insular? Although we Brits live on an island, most of us are comfortable reading American English. The troll comments I get about my English are from Americans.

Although Literotica is US-based and US-run, many readers and authors are not American. Those of us who are not should consider the world-wide audience for Literotica stories and try to avoid being defiantly British. A slight compromise between strict British usage and US usage is a good idea if you want your stories to be appreciated by the majority of readers.

I'll continue to write in British, with British spelling, trying to avoid confusing international readers by using words that have very different meanings in British and American. Most people don't mind reading 'tyre' because they know it is a 'tire'; or 'pavement' when US is 'sidewalk'. But some words have very awkward association in the different versions. The forename 'Randy' means 'constantly sexually aroused' in British. The British nickname 'Dick' is short for 'Richard' and has been used for centuries, so much so that 'Tom, Dick or Harry' is almost like 'John Doe'.

But 'Tom, Dick and Harry' are also three slang words for prick in British, and calling someone 'a Dick' is abuse. The context is important.

In Australian, 'bastard' has multiple meanings from a term of abuse to a term of admiration. An Australian would know the meaning from the context and the tone of voice but in British and US English many of those meanings are unintelligible.

All of which can be summarised as: Write for your audience, most of whom understand US better than British, wherever they live.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, insular--as in most of them are so isolated geographically and permeated with American culture (as they would be, because, whether good or not, until recently and since WWII most everyone else centered on American culture too) that they don't even know there are other styles.

Brits who write, for the most part, know (but I've met bunches of Brits just as insular as Americans generally are, and, as I posted, snottier in thinking themselves a superior race)--but don't recognize anything but British style to be legitimate. Your fellow islander LaGazzaLadra exhibited that in spades in that last response, and I would be flabbergasted if you didn't see how snotty and jingoist that response was.

I'll repeat, this is an American-based site and it uses American style itself. It's privately owned, and Laurel would have every right as publisher, and as most American publishers do, to demand that American style be used. She doesn't. She apparently is attempting to accommodate other styles to the extent that she can understand them. As I posted already, British style on quotes is convoluted. If she doesn't completely understand that a British usage is correct, that's just too bad--especially for Brits with the entitled attitude LaGazzaLadra exhibited.

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

And this could be summarized as snotty. [...] I've lived as much time in British areas as American, and of the two, the Brits can be the snottiest.

Except that I'm not British, and I only started formal education in English at age 13. I consider it to be my 3rd language, although I understood German (my 4th) before that.

I can read American, Canadian, Australian and whatever English without a problem. I'm equally good (or bad) at driving on the right as I am at driving on the left. But I choose to write in the English that I was educated in.

Oggbashan worded it better than I. My point, which I've made before, is that if you don't understand English because of the position of a comma, it's probably not the source text that is at fault.

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

Brits who write, for the most part, know (but I've met bunches of Brits just as insular as Americans generally are, and, as I posted, snottier in thinking themselves a superior race)--but don't recognize anything but British style to be legitimate. Your fellow islander LaGazzaLadra exhibited that in spades in that last response, and I would be flabbergasted if you didn't see how snotty and jingoist that response was.

I take it as a compliment that you mistake me for a pom (that's Australian slang), or a native speaker for that matter. It means that my English must be of a passable level. Wait, hang on, I actually did write that I'm not a native speaker of English.

 

[Messier82]

I've lived as much time in British areas as American, and of the two, the Brits can be the snottiest. The Americans are just normally so insular that they don't know there are differences. Brits tend to act superior, as if they still had an empire, and that no variations to theirs are relevant or acceptable.

Old joke alert
What's the difference between an American in a foreign country and an Englishman in a foreign country?

The American acts like he owns the country, the Englishman acts like he doesn't care who owns the country.

I'm British and recently had my first story published on Lit. I used the "---" rather than '----' purely because I saw that other published stories used that convention. My tale was very clearly about Brits living in the UK, I used English spellings and English dialogue. There were no issues with regard to any of these factors, so I haven't seen any issues in respect of UK/US language variables.

Whilst many Americans are very insular (and I understand why) I also think that many have absorbed (even if only by osmosis) a great deal of UK culture and conventions than we might imagine.
For example, how popular is Game of Thrones in the US? Very, I believe.
How British is the dialogue and the characters? Again, very. And the accents of the characters are a broad representation of the many variants of spoken English. Surely it wouldn't be so popular if the accents were gobblydegook to US audiences. Mind you, we do still understand why you guys had a problem with Cheryl Cole on X Factor

Any author in any sphere of writing should be aware of the preferences/requirements of the organization they are submitting to.
If you were a scientist submitting a research paper, you would find that every single scientific journal has their own particular style. Failure to submit in that prescribed style leads to instant rejection, regardless of the quality of the material submitted.

As for commas, many writers use far too many of them. All the How to Write sources I've found tend to repeat a similar message: punctuation
is essential but should be almost invisible, ie if you have to stop and think about it then it's probably worth changing or removing it.

 

[Handley_Page]

Having made my personal suggestions, I had rather hoped that the subject might get a little more interesting (and thus I might learn a bit more) but no.
Out come the handbags.

I'm sure a Brit with a bit of historical knowledge could say a few less pleasant things about the Yanks AND VICE VERSA.

"Whilst many Americans are very insular (and I understand why) I also think that many have absorbed (even if only by osmosis) a great deal of UK culture and conventions than we might imagine. ti I believe.
How British is the dialogue and the characters? Again, very.
Mind you, we do still understand why you guys had a problem with Cheryl Cole on X Factor "

I have to confess that my knowledge of the USA is pure book/magazine/TV based, so I seriously doubt its accuracy. Likewise my knowledge of Japan.
Both can be, or are, very insular.
Understandably, perhaps.

Now can we please put the handbags away and get on ?
Thank you.

 

[Messier82]

Having made my personal suggestions, I had rather hoped that the subject might get a little more interesting (and thus I might learn a bit more) but no.
Out come the handbags.

I'm sure a Brit with a bit of historical knowledge could say a few less pleasant things about the Yanks AND VICE VERSA.

"Whilst many Americans are very insular (and I understand why) I also think that many have absorbed (even if only by osmosis) a great deal of UK culture and conventions than we might imagine. ti I believe.
How British is the dialogue and the characters? Again, very.
Mind you, we do still understand why you guys had a problem with Cheryl Cole on X Factor "

Not sure why you quoted my post, but you did so while I was re-editing to put back the segment that got lost due to my laptop touch pad having a mind of its own. If you thought I was being anti-American; I wasn't.