Quotes

[Handley_Page]

Not sure why you quoted my post, but you did so while I was re-editing to put back the segment that got lost due to my laptop touch pad having a mind of its own. If you thought I was being anti-American; I wasn't.

I wasn't.
Your points were well-made.
Lets face it, here is the very last place to be anti-American, ain't it?

 

[49greg]

Back in the sixties I went to Brit schools up until their equivalent of the US Junior year in High School.

There I was taught to use single quotes - ' -but if I used double quotes they accepted it since they knew I was a "colonial". However that was all in handwritten assignments as no-one used typewriters there.

My senior year was in a US high school and the first time I used single quotes I was told not to, but it didn't affect my grade that time.

I'm used to using double quotes now, but like the idea of single quotes since you don't have to use the shift bar.

I do use single quotes for quotes within a quote.

One of the reasons my first post was rejected was putting commas in the wrong place.

 

[49greg]

I wasn't.
Your points were well-made.
Lets face it, here is the very last place to be anti-American, ain't it?

Hey, when I hear some of our politicians I get anti-american thoughts.

 

[oggbashan]

Hey, when I hear some of our politicians I get anti-american thoughts.

That is one thing most people in every country agree about. Their own politicians are (insert line of expletives here).

Edited for: Oops! I'm a politician in a small local way myself. I get abused for it.

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

The issue is not really about single quotes or double quotes, but where to put commas. I'm currently in the process of writing an e-mail, now I've finally found the way to contact the site owners. (It's a bit hidden.)

 

[oggbashan]

The issue is not really about single quotes or double quotes, but where to put commas. I'm currently in the process of writing an e-mail, now I've finally found the way to contact the site owners. (It's a bit hidden.)

It's more than hidden, it doesn't work.

The only way to contact Laurel is by Private Message.

 

[LaGazzaLadra]

Anyway, I suppose it's a moot point. I overlooked this:

Authority: https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/punctuation-in-direct-speech

Lacking a 'Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung' for English, I'll stick with that. Although I still wouldn't mind if you native English speakers made up your minds about how your language should actually be written.

 

[Messier82]

I wasn't.
Your points were well-made.
Lets face it, here is the very last place to be anti-American, ain't it?

Damn right

Incidentally, when I was growing up we always used bring to mean motion towards and take to mean motion away,
eg I'll bring the beer to the party, I'll take the bottles to the bin.

I find these days everyone is using bring regardless of the direction of the matter in question. Is this another transatlantic convention?

 

[Handley_Page]

Damn right

Incidentally, when I was growing up we always used bring to mean motion towards and take to mean motion away,
eg I'll bring the beer to the party, I'll take the bottles to the bin.

I find these days everyone is using bring regardless of the direction of the matter in question. Is this another transatlantic convention?

what's wrong with "Take beer to the party"?
'Bring' implies that the writer is joining the party. 'Take' could be anything.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Just one question, though, about the specifics of British English spelling. Going over the text, most of it is in this form:

Actual quote from the doomed story

If you have a look the guidelines from this site: http://www.gsbe.co.uk/grammar-quotation-marks.html (which, admittedly, is just another site on the interwebs), my use of quotation marks is actually consistent with that.

Note the discussion on the second half of that page, "With Other Punctuation Marks".

In brief, his position as stated there is: "British and American English both put the comma inside the closing quote, but I consider that usage illogical, so I'm going to defy them both and put my commas outside". I can sympathise with his frustration there, but I don't advise following his example. (Also, he's dead wrong about singular "they". It was good enough for Chaucer and Austen, dammit.)

Leaving that particular issue aside: Literotica doesn't require US English, and there are plenty of us who write in other versions of the language. However, it's possible that a non-US usage might be mistaken for an author's error. If that happens, a note with the submission should take care of it.

I just found it rather peculiar that one particular prolific author in the incest/taboo consistently gets away with writing 'a couple minutes/years/times' instead of 'a couple of', yet the use of punctuation, which is considered correct in the country where the language originates from, was a reason for rejection.

It's quite true that the toughness of moderation varies a bit from story to story. Laurel skim-reads, and sometimes stuff slips through.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Anyway, I suppose it's a moot point. I overlooked this:

Lacking a 'Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung' for English, I'll stick with that. Although I still wouldn't mind if you native English speakers made up your minds about how your language should actually be written.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll.

It's one of the things I love about English, but I can imagine it'd be highly frustrating for somebody trying to learn it. And I've tripped over it myself now and then; I learned from reader comments here that at least one word considered innocuous in Australian English is highly offensive in the UK.

 

[sr71plt]

what's wrong with "Take beer to the party"?

Nothing. In fact, I think it's better. "Bring beer to the party" makes me think the writer is already at the party.

 

[redzinger]

Damn right

Incidentally, when I was growing up we always used bring to mean motion towards and take to mean motion away,
eg I'll bring the beer to the party, I'll take the bottles to the bin.

I find these days everyone is using bring regardless of the direction of the matter in question. Is this another transatlantic convention?

I've found I hear this only amongst the *cough* less well-educated of my acquaintance. The ones who generally think the past participle is 'brung'. And that you 'aks' a question.

The same with borrow/lend. 'Will you borrow me a pencil?' absolutely makes me shudder.

 

[Messier82]

what's wrong with "Take beer to the party"?
'Bring' implies that the write is joining the party. 'Take' could be anything.

Yes in the example I had in mind the writer is joining other people and is letting them know what he/she will bring. In the same way someone might ask in an interview "What can you bring to the company". Take would not fit here as it suggests motion away or removal.

My issue is with the use of bring even for situations where there is motion away. For example, we speak of "The take home message" I don't believe anyone would substitute bring for take in that sentence.

I'd also like to have a quick bleat (baaaaaa...) about the infiltration of (what I call) Management Speak into everyday language. Too often I hear people say 'going forward' instead of 'in the future' or 'from now on'. I had a girlfriend once who was steeped in management culture, she would talk about 'adding value' instead of just saying an occasion would be fun/nice/exciting/whatever.

 

[Messier82]

I've found I hear this only amongst the *cough* less well-educated of my acquaintance. The ones who generally think the past participle is 'brung'. And that you 'aks' a question.

Oh yes 'aks', I can't stand that, though I've only heard it on TV, usually when it features a southern situation, most often with an afro-carribean speaker. I don't hear that here in the north. But there are many equally bad or worse examples I hear from 'the lads at work'

The same with borrow/lend. 'Will you borrow me a pencil?' absolutely makes me shudder.

I'm right there with you on that one. It's like fingernails on a blackboard.
Oops, I meant to say 'chalkboard'

 

[Messier82]

Nothing. In fact, I think it's better. "Bring beer to the party" makes me think the writer is already at the party.

Yes, but you're an American (I'm assuming). The Irish also tend to use bring instead of take in every instance, and the Irish have had a huge influence on all things American. Here in the UK my generation were taught to use bring and take differently. I'm not sure what kids today are taught (I understand it's mostly about coaching them through exams rather than a well-rounded education).

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, but you're an American (I'm assuming). The Irish also tend to use bring instead of take in every instance, and the Irish have had a huge influence on all things American. Here in the UK my generation were taught to use bring and take differently. I'm not sure what kids today are taught (I understand it's mostly about coaching them through exams rather than a well-rounded education).

I was indicating I was taught to use them separately too. "Bring" is for things coming toward the speaker and "take" is for those going away from the speaker--this is how I use them.

 

[Messier82]

Ah, so motion towards And motion away, exactly. My original point was in respect of the increasingly common use of bring for both directions of motion.

On a different topic, does anyone else have a beef with the 'rising terminal inflection' where every sentence is turned into a question by an uplift of the final few syllables? Grrrrr....

 

[Handley_Page]

I've found I hear this only amongst the *cough* less well-educated of my acquaintance. The ones who generally think the past participle is 'brung'. And that you 'aks' a question.

The same with borrow/lend. 'Will you borrow me a pencil?' absolutely makes me shudder.

There are several dialect regions where this is quite acceptable. Up in parts of the West Midlands, bordering on Derbyshire is one place I have heard it.

I'd also like to have a quick bleat (baaaaaa...) about the infiltration of (what I call) Management Speak into everyday language. Too often I hear people say 'going forward' instead of 'in the future' or 'from now on'. I had a girlfriend once who was steeped in management culture, she would talk about 'adding value' instead of just saying an occasion would be fun/nice/exciting/whatever.

Bleat away, friend. You are in good company. 'Management-speak' is foam-filled gobbledegook.

.........
Originally Posted by redzinger
The ones who generally think the past participle is 'brung'.
And that you 'aks' a question.
........

"Aks", (for Ask) I believe, stems from a Caribbean patois, made worse by the kids using it to confuse and annoy their elders /teachers multiplied by white kids catching up and mimicking the speech pattern.

 

[DeYaKen]

I've used both systems for quotes in my stories and they have not been rejected because of it.
When I went to school (a long time ago) we were taught that all speech should be enclosed in double quotes.

More recently I noticed that British books used single quotes. I looked it up and since it seemed to make a lot of sense, started to use it.
For our American cousins, it goes like this.
Dialogue goes inside single quotes. When the speaker quotes a third party in the dialogue, the third party's speech goes in double quotes.
ie
James said
'I always put dialogue in single quotes but then Robert told me "For quotes within quotes you should have double." To be honest, I hadn't thought of that.'

We Brits don't have a problem with US English because we are pretty much flooded with it from Hollywood films and imported TV shows. We've become accustomed to it.

 

[sr71plt]

Dialogue goes inside single quotes. When the speaker quotes a third party in the dialogue, the third party's speech goes in double quotes.

Just the opposite in American style: The first level of quotes is ALWAYS double, the second single, and so on. (Chicago Manual of Style 13.28)