Space Fillers.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I read so much from the same category (hard crime noire) I now spot what I call SPACE FILLERS. Really anything that strays from the plot and isn't a bonafide subplot.

Like, lets say your principal character is gunshot and goes to live with Ma to recuperate. His rehab is really the story and plot. But say he awakes one night and his naked sister is in the bed beside him, and she demands sex. It could be a subplot, but if nothing much happens or nothing else happens between them its a space filler.

 

[Carnevil9]

Who was it - Elmore Leonard maybe? - who said, "Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip." I tend to agree with him; the parts that are boring to read are also boring to write.

On the other hand, if you really have to pad out the word count, you can paraphrase a quote from Woody Allen: meaningless sex may be space filler, but as space fillers go, it's one of the best.

 

[SamScribble]

Who was it - Elmore Leonard maybe? - who said, "Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip." I tend to agree with him; the parts that are boring to read are also boring to write.

Yes. When asked how he managed to keep the action in his books moving so quickly, Elmore Leonard said: ‘I leave out the parts that people skip.’

Of course, there are times when you might actually want to slow your reader down a tad. A one-paced story is not always a good read.

 

[PervOtaku]

In a porn story, a sex scene is its own reward, even if the events used to set it in motion do nothing to advance the larger plotline.

William Goldman famously wrote The Princess Bride with the framing gimmick that it was a condensed version of a pre-existing story, just like his Dad used to read it to him, with only the "good parts".

 

[rjordan]

I read so much from the same category (hard crime noire) I now spot what I call SPACE FILLERS. Really anything that strays from the plot and isn't a bonafide subplot.

Like, lets say your principal character is gunshot and goes to live with Ma to recuperate. His rehab is really the story and plot. But say he awakes one night and his naked sister is in the bed beside him, and she demands sex. It could be a subplot, but if nothing much happens or nothing else happens between them its a space filler.

The reader has a problem, though. When it's presented, they don't know if it's filler or a subplot. The scene might have some meaning later in the story. Later they won't identify it as filler. They'll just wonder, "What the fuck was that about?" or "Where did she come from?"

I agree with something you said in another thread. I'm not big on long detailed sex scenes either. I don't often go into much detail in my own stories, and less now than I used to do.

In fact, there are many stories here on Lit that had me so engrossed, the sex scenes took me out of the story. I found myself skipping over what were clearly gratuitous sex scenes to find out what happens next.

rj

 

[rjordan]

In a porn story, a sex scene is its own reward, even if the events used to set it in motion do nothing to advance the larger plotline.

I don't think so. Not even a porn story can justify anything that doesn't advance the story. I would expect a porn storyline to require sex scenes to advance the story, but I wouldn't expect sex scenes that don't.

The story is the whole point and ultimately the reward. The sex scenes are there, like anything else, to contribute to the story.

As i said earlier, as a reader, I often skip over sex scenes that obviously don't advance the story.

rj

 

[PervOtaku]

I don't think so. Not even a porn story can justify anything that doesn't advance the story. I would expect a porn storyline to require sex scenes to advance the story, but I wouldn't expect sex scenes that don't.

The story is the whole point and ultimately the reward. The sex scenes are there, like anything else, to contribute to the story.

As i said earlier, as a reader, I often skip over sex scenes that obviously don't advance the story.

Well, it's porn. We're here for the sex. The story is there to give the sex relevance. I spend a lot more time deciding on sex scenes first and then crafting plot to take me there than I do crafting plot first and then figuring out how to insert sex scenes into it. Could you even so, at that point, replace the sex scenes with "they went off and had sex" and still have a worthwhile story? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, and either way it's defeating the purpose.

I've had kernels of story ideas that went nowhere until I asked myself how I could make sex scenes from it. Sometimes given the set-up and the characters, there's a sex scene I really want to have, even though nothing about it or the bits leading into it lead to or influence plot elements in the rest of the story. Sometimes also a sex scene starts out that way but as story development continues it turns out to influences later plot elements after all. I would hate to limit myself when I'm figuring out what's possible and how it all fits together.

If you get right down to it, no sex scene "advances" the story. That the characters in the scene had sex might be relevant to future developments but the actions they did within the scene almost certainly will not. The real issue is, are the sex scenes compelling enough to make you want to read them? If the answer is no, then the author has a problem.

Personally, I get a little sex scene fatigue during writing, too. Any given sex act may get described in a lot of detail the first time it happens, but if the same act recurs it gets less and less detail given to it. I always try to up the ante on things or vary the situation enough to keep the sex scenes fresh as the story plays out. This also limits the overall length of the story, once I'm out of new sex scene ideas it's time to enact the story endgame.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, it's porn. We're here for the sex. The story is there to give the sex relevance.

Yes, I think many are here just for the sex and their interest is in advancing their personal arousal to higher arousal and, hopefully, release and don't give two figs where or if a storyline is advancing. they also don't give two figs about others' expectations of why they are here, reading and writing.

 

[TxRad]

Yes, I think many are here just for the sex and their interest is in advancing their personal arousal to higher arousal and, hopefully, release and don't give two figs where or if a storyline is advancing. they also don't give two figs about others' expectations of why they are here, reading and writing.

I think we've had this discussion within the last month.

 

[rjordan]

Well, it's porn. We're here for the sex. The story is there to give the sex relevance. I spend a lot more time deciding on sex scenes first and then crafting plot to take me there than I do crafting plot first and then figuring out how to insert sex scenes into it. Could you even so, at that point, replace the sex scenes with "they went off and had sex" and still have a worthwhile story? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, and either way it's defeating the purpose.

I've had kernels of story ideas that went nowhere until I asked myself how I could make sex scenes from it. Sometimes given the set-up and the characters, there's a sex scene I really want to have, even though nothing about it or the bits leading into it lead to or influence plot elements in the rest of the story. Sometimes also a sex scene starts out that way but as story development continues it turns out to influences later plot elements after all. I would hate to limit myself when I'm figuring out what's possible and how it all fits together.

If you get right down to it, no sex scene "advances" the story. That the characters in the scene had sex might be relevant to future developments but the actions they did within the scene almost certainly will not. The real issue is, are the sex scenes compelling enough to make you want to read them? If the answer is no, then the author has a problem.

Personally, I get a little sex scene fatigue during writing, too. Any given sex act may get described in a lot of detail the first time it happens, but if the same act recurs it gets less and less detail given to it. I always try to up the ante on things or vary the situation enough to keep the sex scenes fresh as the story plays out. This also limits the overall length of the story, once I'm out of new sex scene ideas it's time to enact the story endgame.

I don't think we're that far apart here. A particular scene (sex or not) might not directly advance the story, but the interaction of the characters should be for a purpose, and that can advance the story. As you said, the fact that two characters had sex might be relevant later in the story. Setting that up early certainly advances the story, by giving us relevant information that we will use later.

Also the process you as an author goes through is completely irrelevant to the reader. If you have a couple of really interesting sex scenes, but no story they fit in, you don't have a story and you wouldn't publish anything. So you contrive a story that incorporates those sex scenes.

It doesn't matter to the reader whether the sex scenes occurred to you without having a story or the story occurred to you, but without sex scenes. There are no limits on you as the author. You do what you want to tell the story you want to tell. You put all the elements together. We don't see the sausage making, just the sizzling links on the plate.

I can't imagine a writer of any caliber, abandoning a story in the middle, inserting a really hot, but irrelevant sex scene, then picking up the narrative where they left off. It's a nonsensical premise.

rj

 

[sr71plt]

but the interaction of the characters should be for a purpose,

In your opinion, right? I can assure you that many folks legitimately reading and writing at this site don't give two shits about that.

You people just won't stop posting about what others should do here with their reading/writing presence here, will you?

And, yes, by the way, a sex scene certainly can advance the story. If the characters were hung up about having sex with each other and then there's a sex scene between them, that has both advanced the plot and initiated a change.

 

[rjordan]

In your opinion, right? I can assure you that many folks legitimately reading and writing at this site don't give two shits about that.

Yes, my opinion. Did I say I was speaking for anyone else?

You people just won't stop posting about what others should do here with their reading/writing presence here, will you?

In your opinion, right?

And, yes, by the way, a sex scene certainly can advance the story. If the characters were hung up about having sex with each other and then there's a sex scene between them, that has both advanced the plot and initiated a change.

Well, yes. PervOtaku has already stated that, and I have answered in agreement. We're not talking about sex scenes that advance the plot or the story even in an indirect way. We're talking about sex scenes that don't. Did you have something to add?

rj

 

[sr71plt]

Apparently not that you would understand.