Chicken or egg scenario

[madelinemasoch]

I find it dreadfully annoying the way readers in certain categories will respond to a story with nothing but, "You put this in the wrong category, you should've put it in x category instead." These people can't appreciate a work for what it is. I get part of it (gross-out factor perhaps) but that part I just don't understand. It's like they're just using writers like rags to cum onto. No titillation for me out of that. "You brought me the wrong color of cum rag!" ...You picked it out, sir. Now get back in the wheelchair.

It occurred to me that it's possible they do this because authors on the forums talk about categories so often. I almost want to say, "Can we stop talking about categories? It's confusing the readership," but that would just be talking about it anyways. Instead I'll ask whether the readers are already like that, or if you think it happens because they see what we talk about here and follow suit with the laying of unspoken rules (not content guidelines but contrived conventions).

Putting too much focus on categories can even dampen the writing process itself. If I'm thinking "ooo, which category will I put it in?" then I'm not thinking of pretty lines of prose or seeing imagery in my head or feeling the vibe of the work. If the reader is thinking "this is in the wrong category!" then they're not seeing the idea you espoused in the work. They're not really seeing the work for what it is and engaging with it at all, as a piece of art, they're just leaving you another mocking quote-tweet, essentially. They just want to change out the curtains without looking out the window.

 

[StillStunned]

I've just this instant submitted a girl-girl story for posting in Erotic Couplings. It's a new instalment in a series of encounters that have, so far, involved incest voyeurism, a straight scene, a lesbian masturbation scene and a straight blowjob. It would feel odd for this instalment to suddenly go in a different category.

I've added a note to Laurel explaining my reasoning. Also, the tags and "description" make it clear that it's a girl-girl scene.

 

[RejectReality]

The bulk of writers don't even know this forum is here, nevermind the readers.

The number of categories are limited. The readerships of said categories are tribal. The discussion of categorization is a valuable resource for new writers or people venturing into new territory.

That being said, write the story first, and then figure out what category is appropriate afterward. If nothing fits perfectly, then go into it expecting to take some lumps. Or maybe take it to a completely different venue where the rules and readerships are different.

 

[HordHolm]

I find it dreadfully annoying the way readers in certain categories will respond to a story with nothing but, "You put this in the wrong category, you should've put it in x category instead." These people can't appreciate a work for what it is. I get part of it (gross-out factor perhaps) but that part I just don't understand. It's like they're just using writers like rags to cum onto. No titillation for me out of that. "You brought me the wrong color of cum rag!" ...You picked it out, sir. Now get back in the wheelchair.

It occurred to me that it's possible they do this because authors on the forums talk about categories so often. I almost want to say, "Can we stop talking about categories? It's confusing the readership," but that would just be talking about it anyways. Instead I'll ask whether the readers are already like that, or if you think it happens because they see what we talk about here and follow suit with the laying of unspoken rules (not content guidelines but contrived conventions).

Putting too much focus on categories can even dampen the writing process itself. If I'm thinking "ooo, which category will I put it in?" then I'm not thinking of pretty lines of prose or seeing imagery in my head or feeling the vibe of the work. If the reader is thinking "this is in the wrong category!" then they're not seeing the idea you espoused in the work. They're not really seeing the work for what it is and engaging with it at all, as a piece of art, they're just leaving you another mocking quote-tweet, essentially. They just want to change out the curtains without looking out the window.

I'd question how many readers actually see the forums, read through threads on the AH, etc. I suspect it's pretty minimal in comparison to the actual number of readers out there - minimal to the point of making no discernible difference. Plus there are people who'll complain about damn near anything... "Good morning." "How very dare you say that to me!"

 

[alohadave]

It occurred to me that it's possible they do this because authors on the forums talk about categories so often. I almost want to say, "Can we stop talking about categories? It's confusing the readership," but that would just be talking about it anyways. Instead I'll ask whether the readers are already like that, or if you think it happens because they see what we talk about here and follow suit with the laying of unspoken rules (not content guidelines but contrived conventions).

Most readers never come into any of the forums, let alone this particular one to read our discussions about categories.

 

[yowser]

First of all, I suspect the number of readers (who are not writers) who frequent the AH is vanishingly small, so I don't think we're doing any confusing.

Second, I think any serious writer is going to write their story first, and worry about category placement second. Choice can be troublesome but it's a useful funnel for readers.

 

[Bamagan]

I'd question how many readers actually see the forums, read through threads on the AH, etc. I suspect it's pretty minimal in comparison to the actual number of readers out there - minimal to the point of making no discernible difference. Plus there are people who'll complain about damn near anything... "Good morning." "How very dare you say that to me!"

Or they'll troll you by responding, "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"

 

[Altissimus]

This can be avoided to a degree by a brief author's note that explicitly lists tags. The then need read no further than the first couple of lines, and if they choose to then do so, they go in eyes-opened.

 

[Britva415]

These people can't appreciate a work for what it is.

So, fuck'em. Write for yourself, not for them.

No titillation for me out of that.

Oh. Is that why you write and publish on Lit? Hmm, that does sort of work against the above.

It occurred to me that it's possible they do this because authors on the forums talk about categories so often.

I don't think more than 0.01% of story readers are also Author's Hangout readers.

 

[SimonDoom]

Honestly, my attitude about this sort of reader is, "Ignore them."

I don't feel any obligation as an author to hold the reader's hand and to shield the reader from the possibility that the story might not be exactly what the reader expects.

I'm a reader. And you know what? I like surprises. I LIKE it when the story is different from what I expect. When I pick up an issue of The New Yorker, I don't get a bunch of tags and disclaimers to shield me from the chance that I might be surprised or shocked. Thank God for that. Surprise is one of the delicious experiences I get as a reader. I cater to readers who feel the same way I do.

To me, the other kind of reader is like the person who pulls up to the drive-in window and orders a Big Mac because that's what they've ordered a thousand times and they know exactly how it tastes before they eat it and that's exactly what they want. If they don't get exactly the flavor they want, they'll throw a fit. Fine for them. But that's not what's on my menu.

 

[madelinemasoch]

So, fuck'em. Write for yourself, not for them.

It's a bigger problem than my own writings. My comments section is much more... angry all the time.

Oh. Is that why you write and publish on Lit? Hmm, that does sort of work against the above.

Believe it or not there's more to writing than making the readers orgasm.

I don't think more than 0.01% of story readers are also Author's Hangout readers.

Can't decide if that's a good or bad thing.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I'm a reader. And you know what? I like surprises. I LIKE it when the story is different from what I expect. When I pick up an issue of The New Yorker, I don't get a bunch of tags and disclaimers to shield me from the chance that I might be surprised or shocked. Thank God for that. Surprise is one of the delicious experiences I get as a reader. I cater to readers who feel the same way I do.

I love that.

 

[Britva415]

Believe it or not there's more to writing than making the readers orgasm.

That's not even what it's about at all for me, personally.

 

[Bamagan]

Honestly, my attitude about this sort of reader is, "Ignore them."

I don't feel any obligation as an author to hold the reader's hand and to shield the reader from the possibility that the story might not be exactly what the reader expects.

I'm a reader. And you know what? I like surprises. I LIKE it when the story is different from what I expect. When I pick up an issue of The New Yorker, I don't get a bunch of tags and disclaimers to shield me from the chance that I might be surprised or shocked. Thank God for that. Surprise is one of the delicious experiences I get as a reader. I cater to readers who feel the same way I do.

To me, the other kind of reader is like the person who pulls up to the drive-in window and orders a Big Mac because that's what they've ordered a thousand times and they know exactly how it tastes before they eat it and that's exactly what they want. If they don't get exactly the flavor they want, they'll throw a fit. Fine for them. But that's not what's on my menu.

I like some kinds of surprises. But sometimes my surprise is a result of being deceived. That's rarely as clever or charming as the deceptive party seems to think, which makes it kind of like a pick-up line.

 

[AlexBailey]

I know a published film critic who was screening the new movie “The Creator” for the first time. It’s a sci-fi about a battle between humans and AI with some original ideas, but his takeaway was that it’s a formulaic love story.

 

[MrPixel]

I don't feel any obligation as an author to hold the reader's hand and to shield the reader from the possibility that the story might not be exactly what the reader expects.

Don't dismiss that the occasional reader comes along not knowing jack about the category and what it may encompass. I wrote one a while back that was about a father possibly impregnating his daughter, put it in I/T and had one commenter complain "Wrong category!" Like hell, farmboy.

 

[SimonDoom]

I like some kinds of surprises. But sometimes my surprise is a result of being deceived. That's rarely as clever or charming as the deceptive party seems to think, which makes it kind of like a pick-up line.

I see readers complain often at this Site about being "deceived." My reaction most of the time is, you've got to be kidding me. I read all the time. In 99% of the cases, if I'm reading a Loving Wives story, I can figure out what it's about in the first page. Usually I can do so just by looking at the tags, title, and tagline. My reaction to most readers who complain about being deceived is "boo hoo." Part of being a reader is you bite into the chocolate and sometimes you don't know what you're going to get. If you don't like what you've bitten into, you set it aside and pick up the next chocolate.

 

[HordHolm]

I see readers complain often at this Site about being "deceived." My reaction most of the time is, you've got to be kidding me. I read all the time. In 99% of the cases, if I'm reading a Loving Wives story, I can figure out what it's about in the first page. Usually I can do so just by looking at the tags, title, and tagline. My reaction to most readers who complain about being deceived is "boo hoo." Part of being a reader is you bite into the chocolate and sometimes you don't know what you're going to get. If you don't like what you've bitten into, you set it aside and pick up the next chocolate.

I'm convinced it's because it's all free content. I actually think if people had to pay for the content they'd be more forgiving on the whole. Counter-intuitive? Yes, but my view is that if people make the decision to buy something they are more likely to defend their purchase rather than openly say they've been (in their view) ripped off, and their decision to buy was foolish.

 

[Bamagan]

I see readers complain often at this Site about being "deceived." My reaction most of the time is, you've got to be kidding me. I read all the time. In 99% of the cases, if I'm reading a Loving Wives story, I can figure out what it's about in the first page. Usually I can do so just by looking at the tags, title, and tagline. My reaction to most readers who complain about being deceived is "boo hoo." Part of being a reader is you bite into the chocolate and sometimes you don't know what you're going to get. If you don't like what you've bitten into, you set it aside and pick up the next chocolate.

My point is, if I bite into a chocolate and find a turd or a razorblade or arsenic, after I set it aside I'm going to alert the manufacturer and be extremely leery of their other products, because I thought the worst I was subjecting myself to was coconut. If I wanted a crunchy frog I'd ask for a crunchy frog.

 

[Britva415]

If only candy stores had comment boxes.

 

[Bamagan]

If only candy stores had comment boxes.

They used to, but candy corn and peeps got so much abuse they had to be put on suicide watch.

 

[AlexBailey]

My point is, if I bite into a chocolate and find a turd or a razorblade or arsenic, after I set it aside I'm going to alert the manufacturer and be extremely leery of their other products, because I thought the worst I was subjecting myself to was coconut. If I wanted a crunchy frog I'd ask for a crunchy frog.

That’s a good analogy but I’d suggest that for some people it’s more like having an allergy warning saying the chocolate may contain nuts. Some people won’t mind, others will love it, but it could have a disastrous affect on others.