First 2 submissions

[ImagineThis315]

Greetings everyone! I just joined in late November 2014, and have submitted 2 fantasies under "Erotic Couplings" and would love some feedback. Previous to this I have never submitted anything before, so any constructive criticism, feedback, etc. would be much appreciated!

http://www.literotica.com/s/bonnie-and-clyde-1

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-dressing-room-22

Thank you in advance! I have a third one simply titled "Beach Fantasy", but that was submitted today and has yet to be approved.

 

[robertreams]

I hope I don't sound trite. It turns out i end up giving many new writers the same advice. Here are some sentences from "Bonnie and Clyde":
"You reach over and give. . ." (You reach out to...
"I pull the door open and..." (pulling, (wrenching) the door open, I
"We pull out our guns and. . ." drawing our guns, we
"It's a pretty small town and. . ." because it's a small town,
"We walk back slowly and. . ." "We walk back slowly, holding. . .
"We let out a howl and. . ." We let out a howl, jumping up and down. . .

About half your sentences begin this way. The first thing I do when i edit my own work is go on a search and destroy mission for 'and' and 'that' .
The constant repetition of the same structure makes for a boring read. All those little 'and's like bricks on the path. Try using gerunds and participles nad other ways to say the same thing. These are technically run-on sentences. (two complete thoughts joined by 'and').

Eliminate all uses of "start to" One of the most common things in erotica is that people begin, start, etc things but never simply do them.

Do away with qualifiers like 'seem to' 'almost, nearly. The last thing one wants in an erotic story is to be 'almost' anything.

Very interesting choice of venue. I like it very much. You could develop your characters a bit more, but not bad. I liked the story, but all the 'that's and 'and's and equivocations cut the speed down so much I couldn't keep it up. I did not rate your story because I could not give it above about 3.5 and I feel with work it could deserve much more. When the action begins, your sentences should get shorter and shorter. This is a literary device for making the reader feel the action moving more quickly.

All in all, not bad. Same advice I give to everyone, even myself. Get an editor!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I agree with Robert on sentence structure, need to mix it up a bit more.

A lot of readers dislike second-person/quasi-second-person narration (stuff that describes what "you" are doing - technically this one is written in first-person but it's addressing the second person heavily). It tends to provoke a response of "don't tell me what I'm going to do, that's my decision".

Maybe just me, but I felt like you didn't do enough with the bank-robbery side of the story. You used it to establish some excitement, but after that it pretty much vanished and I was left with two people making out in a car, apparently unconcerned about the possibility of police coming after them etc etc. "Two people make out in a car" can be a decent story in itself, just that from the setup I was expecting a bit more to happen with the robbery part.

 

[robertreams]

I agree with Bramblethorn, How could it get more exciting than having sex with the cops closing in to shoot you at any second? Use that, milk it for all it is worth. Maybe even do it more than once before the climax, puns intended. You fizzled on your best chance to get us all riled up. Maybe a closer description of feelings (fear, angst, adrenaline, power, etc.)

 

[litmlove]

I read the first paragraph then closed story: 2nd person PoV annoys me. Maybe you could rework the story into a Chyoa or a TWINE story? The lack of agency isn't so jarring when you have the illusion of choice.

 

[sr71plt]

2nd person PoV annoys me.

Even when it's really first-person POV?

"The excitement builds as we near the bank entrance." First-person POV.

 

[litmlove]

Even when it's really first-person POV?

"The excitement builds as we near the bank entrance." First-person POV.

Get back in your hole, Troll.

'Second person' is a point of view(how a story is told) which the narrator tells the story to another character using 'you'.

But as I said, I made no effort to read the story before I closed it.

 

[sr71plt]

Get back in your hole, Troll.



But as I said, I made no effort to read the story before I closed it.

You shouldn’t pretend knowledge you don’t have—especially before calling someone who does know what they’re talking about a troll. You didn’t source your quote. Here’s one source I can give you that clearly defines second-person POV as I have. I could dredge up mountains of other guidance saying the same. In contrast you haven’t sourced your citation at all. (significant statement bolded)

Definition: In second person point of view, the narrator tells the story to another character using "you"; the story is being told through the addressee's point of view.

http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/secondperson.htm

This is the problem with advice forums like this. There are all sorts of folks without training or actual knowledge, like you, dispensing bad advice and calling folks who do have the training and knowledge trolls.

 

[litmlove]

You shouldn’t pretend knowledge you don’t have—especially before calling someone who does know what they’re talking about a troll. You didn’t source your quote. Here’s one source I can give you that clearly defines second-person POV as I have. I could dredge up mountains of other guidance saying the same. In contrast you haven’t sourced your citation at all. (significant statement bolded)

Definition: In second person point of view, the narrator tells the story to another character using "you"; the story is being told through the addressee's point of view.

http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/secondperson.htm

This is the problem with advice forums like this. There are all sorts of folks without training or actual knowledge, like you, dispensing bad advice and calling folks who do have the training and knowledge trolls.

Oh, so I'm unworthy because I didn't state a source. Well, it is lifted from here: http://study.com/academy/lesson/second-person-point-of-view-definition-examples.html . Now that I have stated a source are you going to prove the quoted definition is wrong, or are you merely a grandstanding petulant twerp.

This is the problem with advice forums like these, there are some people who believe they are the font of all wisdom.

BTW Do you have any informative opinions to add or are you here to derail the thread into your own ego?

 

[robertreams]

litmllove: what are you trying to pull? I checked your source and it agrees with pilot, not you, as do I. If you are going to get involved in a grammar war, you had better know what you are talking about. B&C is not written in the second person, but the first person. So, I have no problem with you of any sort, except that you are wrong.

 

[Hypoxia]

Well, it is lifted from here: http://study.com/academy/lesson/second-person-point-of-view-definition-examples.html .

That source is hard to deal with; it's only partially viewable to non-members.

Without taking sides here, I'll note that 'straight' 2nd-person POV is difficult -- the author must maintain that intimacy without dropping into a form of 1st-person. The mere existence of 'you' implies a telepathic 'I' telling the tale. And as pilot said, 'we' is 1st-person.

Hmm, is writing in strict 1st-plural as hard as straight 2nd-singular? Good thing most formal Anglish doesn't include 2nd-plural pronouns. Imagine a story completely told to "y'all" or "youse". In earlier Anglish, 'thou' was singular and 'you' was plural. The damn language has degenerated.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, so I'm unworthy because I didn't state a source.

No, you're unworthy because you gave incorrect information and called the one who gave the correct information a troll. This makes you a fucktard doubly--you are leading a seeking writer astray (you have no formal training in this, do you? It shows) and you were being nasty to someone trying to give constructive advice.

So, who does that make a troll? You don't really care whether you give good writing advice or not, do you? You have no training to do so whatsoever, do you?

Of the two of us showing concern to be helpful to the seeking writer, it wasn't you here.

 

[litmlove]

litmllove: what are you trying to pull? I checked your source and it agrees with pilot, not you, as do I. If you are going to get involved in a grammar war, you had better know what you are talking about. B&C is not written in the second person, but the first person. So, I have no problem with you of any sort, except that you are wrong.

OK, I made no effort to properly check the story or to a prove point. I am wrong, the story isn't 2nd person.

The real problem here is a certain toxic individual who seeks to discredit rather than debate any actual issue. My subsequent hostility wasn't proving anything, only that I was revealing a petty troll for what it is.

you gave incorrect information

There you go again, making unsupported claims because you deign it is so. How exactly is the definition invalid? Your bravado is a pathetic excuse for an argument. Accept that you are not a king and you do not have the power to execute others. You do not belong here, or anywhere, until you learn how to take part in social settings. Once you learn how to be civil I will be delighted to treat you respectfully.

 

[sr71plt]

There you go again, making unsupported claims because you deign it is so. How exactly is the definition invalid? Your bravado is a pathetic excuse for an argument. Accept that you are not a king and you do not have the power to execute others. You do not belong here, or anywhere, until you learn how to take part in social settings. Once you learn how to be civil I will be delighted to treat you respectfully.

I supported my point. I could probably do that with a dozen citations, if you like. I was trained to do this, and I won't pretend to be equal on this with someone who gave a incorrect call on what second-person voice is as you did here.

I happen to care more for folks asking for help in finding the paths here than I do for folks pretending they know what they don't and leading those seeking help down the wrong paths. I would find it strange to think that those seeking the help wouldn't appreciate that--and I don't care if those just pretending to know what they don't don't appreciate that. So, tough, good buddy. You brought the "troll" word in here and I think pretty much proved you are that troll.

As far as operating in social settings, you were the one calling me a troll for questioning your bum advice--without being nasty, as you then were.

 

[Combat323]

Setting aside my distaste for the I/you construction, here are a few things I'd recommend for the Bonnie and Clyde story:
.....1. Get rid of about 99% of your exclamation points. There should be two or three following actual exclamations, not 29 on one page.
.....2. Cut some adverbs, especially "finally," which makes two appearances in one paragraph.

I glance over, looking deep into your eyes, and you feel my sexual power flow into your body.

.....3.Okay, I'm handling the I/you thing, but here the narrator is reading his partner's mind instead of describing her actions / reactions. Keep him inside his own head, please.
.....4. Watch your subject-verb agreement. The second sentence starts with the compound (plural) subject "...grey ominous clouds and light drizzle of rain" and pairs them with the singular verb "gives". (On another note, you should cut "of rain." ) The plural subject, singular verb problem appears again a few paragraphs later.

I run my fingernails down to the small of your back, where by leaning over they can finally reach your soft skin.

I lick your sweet little asshole and slide it back up to your pussy, my tongue thrusting inside you.

.....5. In the first case, it sounds like his fingernails are leaning over. In the second, it sounds like he slides her asshole up to her pussy. Those parts are meant to be close neighbors, not cohabitants.
.....6. An "audible moan?" is there another kind?
.....7. You've got four cases of "hands grab": three "my hands grab," and one "your hands grab."
.....8. Where robertreams goes on a search and destroy mission for "and" and "that", I do a find for "ing" and eliminate most instances of "am, is, was, were _____-ing." In your case, there are a couple of "start _____-ing." So, instead of "You start kissing my neck and earlobes..." Change to just "You kiss my....." At first glance this may seem counter to what robertreams advised, but he was talking about varying your construction, and I'm talking about eliminating the verb "to be."
.....9. Read the story to yourself aloud, and you'll catch some other errors, many of which seem to have resulted from changes. An example: "You lean back into my chest, and my cock slips out of your and you squeeze it between your legs."

The dressing room story has many of the same issues but to a lesser extent. After reading both, I'd say you need to find a metaphor to replace the "like a piston" simile. There are some other commonalities, like the single pussy lip protruding from the woman's panties and the "vise-like grip" of her pussy, that made me feel almost like I was reading the same story in a different setting.

 

[Combat323]

ImagineThis315.....One final suggestion: Don't take anything here as expert advice. I do curriculum editing for a local university and have done quite a bit of grant writing lately, but I'm not a fiction editor for a major publishing house. No one on this forum will be red-penciling Stephen King's latest submission or writing the Great American Novel; or even the Middling American Short Story. What you do get here is another set of eyes on your writing, which is valuable, but they're the eyes of the other students in your English class, not William Zinsser.

 

[sr71plt]

No one on this forum will be red-penciling Stephen King's latest submission or writing the Great American Novel; or even the Middling American Short Story.

You have no basis of knowing that's true (and, in fact, it's not.) I agree, though, that it's good to assume no one here giving you writing advice can be taken for knowing more than you do until you've gotten comfortable with the advice they are giving across the board--or if they cite authoritative writing sources to back up what they are advising, which, yes, would include William Zinsser's On Writing Well.

 

[robertreams]

Sorry, Combat, but in my case you get the English teacher.

It sounds to me as if this writer sees writing a story, or I should say this story, as a sort of extended RP. This is how the story reads to me: as if it were one side of an rp. I admit it, the first person POV in this story is pretty strange, it is sort of first person omniscient, which I have never heard of.

 

[litmlove]

I supported my point. I could probably do that with a dozen citations, if you like. I was trained to do this, and I won't pretend to be equal on this with someone who gave a incorrect call on what second-person voice is as you did here.

I happen to care more for folks asking for help in finding the paths here than I do for folks pretending they know what they don't and leading those seeking help down the wrong paths. I would find it strange to think that those seeking the help wouldn't appreciate that--and I don't care if those just pretending to know what they don't don't appreciate that. So, tough, good buddy. You brought the "troll" word in here and I think pretty much proved you are that troll.

As far as operating in social settings, you were the one calling me a troll for questioning your bum advice--without being nasty, as you then were.

Well you didn't fail to disappoint. We are all saddened to hear you won't be sharing your infinite wisdom. Onwards Sir Quixote, go save the innocent peasants from thy foul Windmills.

Sheesh, you have the audacity to believe you are actually demonstrating anything other than your own untamed belligerence? It sounds like you have a bigger problem than I first thought. It is a shame I am also being hostile, I'm not usually like this. But make no mistake, my focus and hostility is entirely directed at you and your trolling ways. After you learn how to be nice then you will have no problem with me; picking on others in this forum of all places is disgusting.

Please tell me you have learnt something from this exchange. At least tell us you now understand the futility of sniping at others. We can move on to step 2 (how to prove your point by demonstration) next time you accuse another person - but you won't do that anymore, right?

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, I learned that you can't admit you are wrong and were unjustifiably nasty.

I also learned you have only one story posted to Literotica, nearly a year ago--which apparently makes you think you can teach others about writing.

 

[robertreams]

limlove, no one said you were unworthy, but on this point you are merely WRONG. The story is not written in second person, but in first person POV. This is second person: "You walk into the room, with your pencil in your hand. You see somebody naked and you don't understand, just what you will say when you get home. 'Cuz somethin' is happenin' here but ya don't know what it is. Do you, Mr, Jones?" (thank you Bob Dylan)

 

[sr71plt]

Well, I did post litmlove was unworthy--for being stubbornly wrong and for being a fucktard in calling someone else (who was right) a troll. Litmlove stuck to that, so, yes, unworthy of giving constructive writing advice.