The beauty of submissive men

[Erochic]

Maybe the best thing for a sub to do would be to offer to find a more experienced mentor for the Dom(me) and do the legwork of linking the new Dom(me) up, turning it over to the experienced Dom(me) to guide the inexperienced one. That allows the sub to bke able to slip into his/her role and gives the new Dom someone who can guide him/her in the ways of a Dom.

I've heard about training but the idea feels weird and unnatural to me because all of us are different, as are subs - and so we are going to want different things.

And i know what I want - even if it isn't cookie-cutter stuff - and I'll make a beeline for it and make sure I get it.
The rest is just me getting the confidence in a slightly different dynamic that I'm used to, and figuring out my style ... And how to include my subs desires in a way that works for me.

Oh and I like sex - and don't see why dominance means that I miss out in it, so that would add another layer of weird to training.

 

[Erochic]

Oh definitely. It's never a bad thing to learn about a partner's sexual likes and dislikes or kinks! Storing them up in your mind just gives ways to reward if you choose to reward or other sorts of ideas.

I find it nice when a Domme seeks out the darker corners of my mind, getting inside it to learn my own kinks or desires... and then uses them as she sees fit. Using the example earlier, questions can lead to learning that a guy not only "would" suck a cock for his Domme, but has a part of himself that really wants to explore some hidden, latent cocksucker side of himself. If that bit of information piques an interest in his Domme, it may be something she chooses to use... why not help subbie develop that latent curiosity?

That's something I really like... And have done to some extent. But I'm struggling a bit with finding the best way to do it... And my sub is fairly self contained.
I have played a kind of truth and dare game before which worked nicely. Recently I was getting him to tell me things in emails, but life kept on getting in the way - and I don't want to push someone if they are sick or stressed.
So I'm rethinking now - and perhaps I will just make it a regular part of when we are together ... whenever he is able to talk

 

[bailadora]

As a sub, though, it can be tricky because it feels very much like "who am I as a sub to instruct the Dom"... it pulls the sub out of sub mode, because there's an obvious conflict of mindset. It's hard to be submissive yet "train" a new Dom(me).

If you're the more experienced partner in a particular activity, you have knowledge that is beneficial to you both, and she asks instruction from you, is that not still serving her need? Just a thought.

Maybe the best thing for a sub to do would be to offer to find a more experienced mentor for the Dom(me) and do the legwork of linking the new Dom(me) up, turning it over to the experienced Dom(me) to guide the inexperienced one. That allows the sub to bke able to slip into his/her role and gives the new Dom someone who can guide him/her in the ways of a Dom.

It's all well and good to learn different practices or methods from a more experienced dominant, but I don't think confidence is something you can teach, so this suggestion falls short when it's just the new dominant alone with a more experienced submissive. In the blog post I linked above, Ferns said:

They are trying to divine the line between ‘being positively assertive’ and ‘being an unreasonable bitch’, and they are well aware that if they get it wrong, the whole situation can go bad very quickly. Goodness knows we are told enough times how much we have to care for our submissives (and fair enough too), and determining where that line is can often be difficult.

Honestly, until she has had time to grow her confidence based upon positive, affirmative interaction with her submissive, I think one of the things a newly dominant woman needs most from her submissive is understanding and reassurance. The more she receives that, the safer and more comfortable she will feel in exercising her dominance.

ETA: *nods at Erochic* The sections you highlight resonate with me, as well.

 

[Touch_72]

Okay, well... one way could be a journal, which is a great way to safely communicate likes and dislikes, which can give a new Domme feedback. That might be an easier way than attempting to guide a new Domme while in role.

Can I ask, though...

I get the sense that a sub who finds it an unnatural role to attempt to bring out dominance in a submissive-leaning Domme is looked down on. Yet, when the comments were the other way around and people were saying they were essentially not compatable with and didn't want to take the time on a dominant-leaning new sub, the tone of things was *eyeroll* "why bother?"

It feels like there's an undercurrent of double standard, even subtly, and I don't point it out to instigate or confront.

If a sub does not feel comfortable taking on a mentor role with a new Dom(me), it's their preference not to take on that role. Being a sub does not mean it's a duty to submit to anyone and into any situation... you seek out what is compatible just like any other. relationship.

By this, I am NOT saying a sub should not affirm or should not nurture a learning Dom(me) in whatever way they feel able... I am not saying that new Dom(me)s should not receive that... or that it's not good of a sub to do so. I am speaking more about a subs choice of what they feel comfortable with... and right to choose Dom(me)s and situations they feel compatible... without feeling they're judged as "not true subs" because they politely decline an uncomfortable role with an inexperienced Dom(me).

Nobody is overtly saying this, no, and I may be wrong but it feels like the tone of it is there.

 

[bailadora]

If a sub does not feel comfortable taking on a mentor role with a new Dom(me), it's their preference not to take on that role. Being a sub does not mean it's a duty to submit to anyone and into any situation... you seek out what is compatible just like any other. relationship.

True that, and no one should be required to take on a role they're not comfortable with.

My observations have more to do with the common complaint from many submissive men that there just aren't as many available dominant women as they would like. And it's been pointed out that there are probably more women than you'd think who might be into this, but who also don't like the mold they think (read, are told) they have fit into to be considered a "twue" domme. Consider the scenario Erochic mentioned earlier: "I often see guys posting that they want their wives to be dominant and when their wives try, they tell them that they aren't strong enough... And strangely enough their wives aren't prepared to do it again."

From my perspective, it seems like a good many men are more committed to a fantasy idea of a dominant woman than they are to a more realistic version. How many women are born knowing how to instinctively exercise dominance over another person, in just the right way that works for them both? Because we're mostly conditioned not to, outside of a fantasy world, I'm betting not many.

If the goal is to help more women to feel comfortable in exercising dominance, it seems like letting go of unrealistic expectations and making the field a little more welcoming to a wider audience might be a step in the right direction. To put it in business terms, it's a case of more effective marketing.

 

[Touch_72]

If the goal is to help more women to feel comfortable in exercising dominance, it seems like letting go of unrealistic expectations and making the field a little more welcoming to a wider audience might be a step in the right direction. To put it in business terms, it's a case of more effective marketing.

Glad you didn't see what I wrote as trying to pick a fight. Thank you.

I definitely agree that women shouldn't be discouraged and feedback should be productive so they don't just box up the idea. Though I'm not seriously experienced, something I would find fun would be to work with a new Domme as an outsider... someone to bounce things off and provide that encouragement... to help her tap into that side and find her own style and approach with a balance. That could be great fun.

 

[bailadora]

I definitely agree that women shouldn't be discouraged and feedback should be productive so they don't just box up the idea. Though I'm not seriously experienced, something I would find fun would be to work with a new Domme as an outsider... someone to bounce things off and provide that encouragement... to help her tap into that side and find her own style and approach with a balance. That could be great fun.

If you can find the right person, that could go a long way towards helping to boost her confidence.

Although I have since lost contact with him, I once had a friend who was a masochistic submissive, and whose limits were considerably farther along than mine were and are. When I became interested in caning, he agreed to be my bottom. Although I still exercised all due caution, due to his proclivities, he helped to create an environment where I felt more at ease exploring, because there was less of a chance I was going to cause him bad pain.

 

[tanyachrs]

That was a great link.

I've never liked the brat concept regardless of which gender is playing brat. "Make me" is just not what it's about to me.

 

[bailadora]

I'm glad you liked the link. I know I keep pimping her writing, but so much of what she has to say just makes sense to me. She really has done a lot in helping me find my voice.

 

[Erochic]

I'm glad you liked the link. I know I keep pimping her writing, but so much of what she has to say just makes sense to me. She really has done a lot in helping me find my voice.

Pimp away!

I think her writing is one of the first things I found when I started looking, and it was such a comfortable affirming place - and made be think "yeah I can do this"

Actually I think it was her writing that led me to start this thread.

 

[Touch_72]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/67e4bf6bbbb08efd8b0324f32d4329a8/tumblr_nhk9d4F3PO1te6314o5_500.gif
http://picsee.net/upload/2014-04-08/c5f61133c4e2.jpeg
http://fap.to/images/51/2029452166/fetish-porn/Femdom-Gifs-Facesitting-Pussy-Licking-Arse-Licking-25.gif
http://nuttit.com/media/hotfacesitting/Charming_pussy_eating_gifs_77460.gif

 

[Touch_72]

http://smutty.so.clients.cdn13.com//media_smutty/m/a/r/q/b/marquis-v25ae-d2a6c3.jpg
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http://41.media.tumblr.com/f0bf03fb889da9bdbcffc722b2f3b11b/tumblr_n5mhurSVhb1tuid6wo1_500.jpg

 

[Erochic]

I want to add something to the discussion - and I'll try not to get cross at anyone when I do it

It would be easy for me to give up exploring dominance.

I actually do very well with lovers who are what I've described as active pleasers. It's not about the control for them (and actually they need to be given their head to take control) but it's all about giving me pleasure and encouraging me to be strong and assertive and enjoy what I want.

It's actually a lot less work for me, but I still get to enjoy what I want how I want.

My ex lover was like that, and we had amazing sex.
He's the one that brought a lot of my dominant side out, because he delighted in it so much.

One of my new post- heartbreak FWBs is like that, and I could just give up wanting control - but when I play with control with my other FWB (who is a switchy sub, but still a sub) I find that it really pushes my buttons.

It is a lot more hard work mentally (rather than just sitting back, knowing that my partner will work as hard as he can to find and deliver exactly the pleasure I want) ...... but the thrill is electric.

I think I owed to myself to explore that finally.
So any kinds of images and words that let me know that "yes there's a place for you too" and that "it's okay not to be the perfect strong dominant as long as you are enjoying what you are doing"
And I am enjoying what I'm doing - very much.

So what I need is for everyone to say "You go girl. Don't worry about whether you are doing it right, and just have fun"

 

[Touch_72]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/bce107485fd62ea5716efee9eebb4387/tumblr_n57fwbGjPo1sy4tc3o1_500.jpg
http://36.media.tumblr.com/affb6e8b04ee00d3b074eda08245177b/tumblr_ncrr796Qcs1t5eoq1o1_500.jpg
http://41.media.tumblr.com/a1076c6316803d8003375c49b5a65473/tumblr_n0cxhmdFse1sl1q84o1_500.jpg
http://40.media.tumblr.com/78a7eef599af980b41b27a057b5dbc22/tumblr_nbg1g3QUtl1s1eegyo1_500.jpg

 

[bailadora]

I think I owed to myself to explore that finally.
So any kinds of images and words that let me know that "yes there's a place for you too" and that "it's okay not to be the perfect strong dominant as long as you are enjoying what you are doing"
And I am enjoying what I'm doing - very much.

Well said.

 

[SultryKitten75]

I think I owed to myself to explore that finally.
So any kinds of images and words that let me know that "yes there's a place for you too" and that "it's okay not to be the perfect strong dominant as long as you are enjoying what you are doing"
And I am enjoying what I'm doing - very much.

^^^This.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Yep,
If she says, "would you suck a cock for me?" i'll yawn and go see what's on tv
If she says, "you WILL suck a cock!" then i feel the power
(no, i never have)
I don't believe in safe words
I fully trust her judgement
Damn the torpedoes

I am so behind on this thread--my apologies. But this caught my eye... (hi, Pen )


the best lessons I've learned about dominance have been learned as a sub. and as a mother.
typical convo. with child in an unsubmissive mood:

Me: Johnny, will you take out the trash, please?
J: I don't want to, I'm busy watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. rolleyes
Me: I wasn't really asking. That was my nice way of saying, 'TAKE OUT THE TRASH--NOW.'
J: scurries to the kitchen.

*ahem*

if I have to raise my voice, or demand that the person ostensibly under my authority do my bidding, then I feel that something is amiss in our relationship. with regards to my sub men, I want to be able to catch their eye, smile sweetly, crook my little finger, and have them drooling with anticipation at accomplishing for me whatever my little heart desires.

He should feel 'the power' based on our history together. The air between us should crackle with excitement because he knows that I am thinking about him, and that I want him, and that I am going to ask him to do something for me that will please both of us. I *could* raise my voice, I *could* make demands, but I'd much rather purr my requests into his ear while teasing his cock with my fingertips.

of course it should go without saying that I am mindful of what makes my subs tick, and that anything I ask them to do is intended to ultimately bring pleasure and satisfaction to them-- mentally, emotionally, physically, or hopefully, all three.

 

[Touch_72]

I want to add something to the discussion - and I'll try not to get cross at anyone when I do it

Oh, that's right! Discussion. Sorry... I got lost in pictures...

I figured they'd be a break from seriousness.

So any kinds of images and words that let me know that "yes there's a place for you too" and that "it's okay not to be the perfect strong dominant as long as you are enjoying what you are doing"
And I am enjoying what I'm doing - very much.

It IS okay to be imperfect... it's like... well, everyone.

There's a beautiful quote from one of my favorite authors (Parke Godwin) from in one of his books... it was brought up on one of Serene's old threads a good while back:

"Where do the strong go to be weak?" (If I remember, it was a musing by Guinevere in either Firelord or Beloved Exhile)

Aside from the fact it was my first inclination, one of the reasons I see myself as more naturally submissive is that when I tried my hand at a 24/7 in-person Dom role for a week, it was... exhausting is the best word to describe it. Not physically... mentally. It CAN be hard work... and I was most definitely less than perfect.

You enjoy what you do. I'm pretty sure you get no complaints. So, keep on doing it!

 

[Touch_72]

the best lessons I've learned about dominance have been learned as a sub. and as a mother.

Yup, parenthood does that, I noticed. For me, also, Army leadership... though I was an atypical, very non-throw-my-weight-around leader, pretty soft spoken and laid back.

He should feel 'the power' based on our history together. The air between us should crackle with excitement because he knows that I am thinking about him, and that I want him, and that I am going to ask him to do something for me that will please both of us. I *could* raise my voice, I *could* make demands, but I'd much rather purr my requests into his ear while teasing his cock with my fingertips.

of course it should go without saying that I am mindful of what makes my subs tick, and that anything I ask them to do is intended to ultimately bring pleasure and satisfaction to them-- mentally, emotionally, physically, or hopefully, all three.

*shiver*

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

There's a beautiful quote from one of my favorite authors (Parke Godwin) from in one of his books... it was brought up on one of Serene's old threads a good while back:

"Where do the strong go to be weak?" (If I remember, it was a musing by Guinevere in either Firelord or Beloved Exhile)

Oh! this is just gorgeous.

some of the absolute most intimate moments I've had with my Doms and dominant lovers is when they needed to let go for a moment and be weak, and they allowed me to be strong for them. Not in a Domme-ish, controlling way, but simply in a loving, supportive way. the deepened connection that came as a result, the strengthening of the bonds of trust... whew. I'll never forget those moments, and those men are precious to me still.

edit: okay, I take that back. they have all enjoyed me taking control in the bedroom from time to time, but I think that is fairly common, no? it seems that no one talks about Doms wanting to be controlled, but i'm going to break that taboo and say that at least in my limited experience, it has been something that they have wanted and enjoyed, to different degrees. but that's a subject for another thread.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Yup, parenthood does that, I noticed. For me, also, Army leadership... though I was an atypical, very non-throw-my-weight-around leader, pretty soft spoken and laid back.

*shiver*

yes, I don't want to have to throw my weight around,
i'd much rather save my energy for more enjoyable pursuits.


hehe

 

[bailadora]

Oh! this is just gorgeous.

some of the absolute most intimate moments I've had with my Doms and dominant lovers is when they needed to let go for a moment and be weak, and they allowed me to be strong for them. Not in a Domme-ish, controlling way, but simply in a loving, supportive way. the deepened connection that came as a result, the strengthening of the bonds of trust... whew. I'll never forget those moments, and those men are precious to me still.

I love this. My husband is not submissive, but one of the things that first drew me to him was his willingness to be emotionally vulnerable with me. He doesn't open up as much these days, because I think he thinks I already know what's going on inside his head. Still, there are moments he'll reveal something that takes my breath away.

 

[Erochic]

yes, I don't want to have to throw my weight around,
i'd much rather save my energy for more enjoyable pursuits.

Haha... Yes. I'm actually a teacher as well as a parent, so this resonates with me. I do enough controlling of brats in my real life

 

[ARoseSoSweet]

They are confused about what being truly submissive is. If I were sub instead of Dom, I would pleasure you anyway you asked and then go home and pound it like an old fashioned butter churn. Men often like the idea of being submissive, but do not seem to understand the reality.
.

A true sub would not go home and pound it, unless their Domme told them to. My subs were never allowed to orgasm without my permission. They were expected to confess if they did and would be punished accordingly.

This.

I felt that void with the last Domme, who did admit it was new to her, but too often I had to ask, "No, what is it that YOU want," because she asked for way too much input and preference from me. There's nothing wrong with asking the sub to come up with thoughts or preferences... on occasion or in a way that maintains control... but, if I have to nudge the ball back into the Domme's court too often, I feel that void because it makes it too much about me. I like consideration because it's nice and thoughtful at the right times, but consideration doesn't mean control.
.

In the course of getting to know my sub, I would ask them what they would like or not like... I might also say, if I wanted to do this, would you be okay with it? (especially if i was close to limits). Again, this was all in context of getting to know them and their level of service. I have also known of Dom/me's who will ask their subs for ideas for future play ideas and then make them wonder if and when it might happen.

Yep,
If she says, "would you suck a cock for me?" i'll yawn and go see what's on tv
If she says, "you WILL suck a cock!" then i feel the power
(no, i never have)
I don't believe in safe words
I fully trust her judgement
Damn the torpedoes

I have heard this before, no safe words. But it is typically with those dynamics that have been together for a while and have built that level of trust. A that point, they likely can reach either others body language as well

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

I love this. My husband is not submissive, but one of the things that first drew me to him was his willingness to be emotionally vulnerable with me. <snip> Still, there are moments he'll reveal something that takes my breath away.

WORD.

this is the magic button that all of my Dominants have pushed with me. when a man who is wired to control chooses to let me see his weakness, and entrust me with that knowledge... that goes a long way toward earning my devotion, and my protection, if that makes sense.

For me, anyway, my Doms become 'mine' as much as I am 'theirs,' and I am fiercely protective of them.

(sorry for the rabbit trail. )