A Thread to Discuss (whine/speculate about) the Proposed Sub-Forum

[subdued_passion]

A lot of people want to naturally talk about the impact of a new sub-forum or the impact of continuing as we are. I thought I'd make a separate thread where we can discuss these things without cluttering up the poll thread.

 

[subdued_passion]

I thought to start with I'd respond to a question Q posed to me yesterday.

If people who post elsewhere on Lit would like to have a politics forum, why shouldn't they get to have a say so?

Considering Laurel has stated that the new forum will be a sub-forum of the GB and that she will only be moving the political threads from the GB, then anyone who doesn't post here shouldn't be voting.

Of course enforcing that is going to be a tough one.

I think a whole new unmoderated political forum would've been a better idea. Move all the political threads (from every forum) to that one forum. I think a forum like that would attract a new kind of crowd.

 

[Que]

We need a poll to decide if this thread is needed for segregated discussion about the split, or whether the discussion should take place in the thread the actual split is being polled.

 

[subdued_passion]

You can discuss about the need for a poll but this thread will not have a poll. Alas, that ship has sailed.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Machts nichts

Playgrounders and assclowns wont keep their nonsense on the reservation, they'll be on the political board almost immediately for want of participants. Theyre like MSNBC and Air America and dog shit, there and irrelevant.

 

[Queersetti]

I thought to start with I'd respond to a question Q posed to me yesterday.



Considering Laurel has stated that the new forum will be a sub-forum of the GB and that she will only be moving the political threads from the GB, then anyone who doesn't post here shouldn't be voting.

Of course enforcing that is going to be a tough one.

And I disagree.

There may very well be people on the other boards who would like to read, or participate in a political forum, but stay away from the GB because of our unsavory reputation. They have every right to be part of the decision to establish a new board.

In addition, there is no way to know that people don't post on other boards and regularly read the GB. They should have the right to vote as well.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the stated purpose of the thread, so I'm wondering why you brought it up in your second
post.

 

[subdued_passion]

Considering the really specific criteria for what would be moved to the sub-forum I'm surprised that people still voted for it's creation, especially since most of the yay voters are ones who've kept out of the political threads and has in no way expressed that they want the new board because they would like to post in it.

All in all the feeling I got was that most people were voting yay out of spite hoping that even though it'll not rid the board of the political spammers right away they will have atleast have laid the groundwork for it.

One thing is for sure that report post/thread feature is gonna break from overuse once the sub-forum is created.

 

[subdued_passion]

And I disagree.

There may very well be people on the other boards who would like to read, or participate in a political forum, but stay away from the GB because of our unsavory reputation. They have every right to be part of the decision to establish a new board.

In addition, there is no way to know that people don't post on other boards and regularly read the GB. They should have the right to vote as well.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the stated purpose of the thread, so I'm wondering why you brought it up in your second
post.

I actually made the thread in part to address your post. As stated I didn't want to clutter up the poll thread and this thread is just for me (or others) to discuss the proposal- all aspects of it- without trying to convince anyone.

If people would like to participate in a political forum but stay away because of the GB why would they bother with one of it's sub-forums which will comprise of posters deemed unsavoury by many in the GB?

It is why a completely separate forum makes sense to me.

And I agree that there are plenty lurkers who don't post which is why I said that enforcing a restriction on who is allowed is going to be tough. People will just have to self-police and not vote out of spite. But I won't hold my breath in the hope of it happening.

 

[Queersetti]

I actually made the thread in part to address your post. As stated I didn't want to clutter up the poll thread and this thread is just for me (or others) to discuss the proposal- all aspects of it- without trying to convince anyone.

If people would like to participate in a political forum but stay away because of the GB why would they bother with one of it's sub-forums which will comprise of posters deemed unsavoury by many in the GB?

It is why a completely separate forum makes sense to me.

And I agree that there are plenty lurkers who don't post which is why I said that enforcing a restriction on who is allowed is going to be tough. People will just have to self-police and not vote out of spite. But I won't hold my breath in the hope of it happening.

Thanks for explaining.

I don't think anyone pays much attention to whether or not a particular board is a forum or a sub-forum. And you are assuming that a new political board would be comprised entirely of GBers, but I don't know if that is the case. There may be plenty of Playgrounders or others who will gravitate to it because, sub forum or not, it's not "THE" GB. New posters who have no history here may soon populate it as well.

I think much of the motivation for the spamming of political threads is to get the reaction they do. They are meant to provoke. In a purely political forum, there would likely be fewer of them, and it may well be more inviting to new blood.

 

[Que]

What exactly does removing the politics do for absolving the GB's unsavory reputation? The Hey look this is Ishmael and he's so gay thread yesterday wasn't political and I don't really think that was savory. Do you?

 

[subdued_passion]

Machts nichts

Playgrounders and assclowns wont keep their nonsense on the reservation, they'll be on the political board almost immediately for want of participants. Theyre like MSNBC and Air America and dog shit, there and irrelevant.

I wasn't surprised to see that you voted yes since you get annoyed with any thread here that isn't related to politics.

I'm sure the people who usually post in the political threads will continue to do so but I don't see new posters coming to that forum and if the politicos don't step outside the sub-forum I suspect the GB won't be as interesting as it is.

 

[subdued_passion]

Thanks for explaining.

I don't think anyone pays much attention to whether or not a particular board is a forum or a sub-forum. And you are assuming that a new political board would be comprised entirely of GBers, but I don't know if that is the case. There may be plenty of Playgrounders or others who will gravitate to it because, sub forum or not, it's not "THE" GB. New posters who have no history here may soon populate it as well.

I think much of the motivation for the spamming of political threads is to get the reaction they do. They are meant to provoke. In a purely political forum, there would likely be fewer of them, and it may well be more inviting to new blood.

People here identify themselves as PGers, GBer, HTers etc. Do you really think people won't care that it is a sub-forum of the big bad GB? I don't see new posters coming to the new sub-forum who wouldn't be coming here anyway.

As far as the politics keeping new blood out of the GB goes, there are plenty of new comers that pass through some are even witty but unless they're the time who don't mind having their strings pulled they aren't really tolerated.

What exactly does removing the politics do for absolving the GB's unsavory reputation? The Hey look this is Ishmael and he's so gay thread yesterday wasn't political and I don't really think that was savory. Do you?

I have that thread opened and was planning on posting on it but will just post here instead.

It really says something when LJ is the one making the most sensible post in a thread.

ETA- http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=63044591&postcount=21

 

[oggbashan]

There are political threads in the Authors' Hangout and there has been heated argument there about what threads and posts are and are not appropriate, whether political or not.

The issue of what is appropriate on any unmoderated forum is divisive. There are also arguments about the actions and inactions of the moderator(s) on moderated forums.

The General Board, however, has many more threads and posts that repeat the same complaints about US politics. For many of us they are uninteresting, boring, and pointless. For some they are real expressions of deeply held convictions. The ignore function can be used to reduce the quantity.

Whether a political forum is created or not, I think some posters will still want to express their opinions in the General Board.

I voted 'Yes' to the specific proposal because the new forum might be an interesting addition to the site. But my decision to vote Yay or Nay was finely balanced.

Will the new forum, if created, satisfy those who are currently annoyed by the same abuse spouted daily? I don't think it will.

Will the new forum, if created, satisfy those who want to abuse their political opponents? I don't think it will.

Will it provide a location to discuss political issues sensibly? It might, but those threads will be only a few among the rest.

Should political threads be moved to the new place from forums that aren't the General Board, such as the Authors' Hangout? Normally I would say 'No' as the AH is now, but if refugees from the changed General Board try to move their ranting to the AH or elsewhere, then 'Yes'.

I think politics are important, and some of the political discussions on the GB are enlightening. I am not averse to participating when I think my contribution could add something. Sometimes I'm wrong - then my post is ignored. Why not? I ignore many other posts too.

My conclusion? If the new political forum is created, and Laurel has said it would be a permanent addition, not temporary, then whether it works or not is entirely in the hands of the people who post on the General Board.

It won't solve everything. It won't satisfy everyone. It will annoy some.

Whether it is worth Laurel and Manu's effort? I don't know.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I don't really care, but I'm all about whining.

 

[Queersetti]

What exactly does removing the politics do for absolving the GB's unsavory reputation? The Hey look this is Ishmael and he's so gay thread yesterday wasn't political and I don't really think that was savory. Do you?

The GB had an unsavory reputation before the proliferation of political spam, so I'd say it will have little, if any effect in that regard.

 

[subdued_passion]

There are political threads in the Authors' Hangout and there has been heated argument there about what threads and posts are and are not appropriate, whether political or not.

The issue of what is appropriate on any unmoderated forum is divisive. There are also arguments about the actions and inactions of the moderator(s) on moderated forums.

The General Board, however, has many more threads and posts that repeat the same complaints about US politics. For many of us they are uninteresting, boring, and pointless. For some they are real expressions of deeply held convictions. The ignore function can be used to reduce the quantity.

Whether a political forum is created or not, I think some posters will still want to express their opinions in the General Board.

I voted 'Yes' to the specific proposal because the new forum might be an interesting addition to the site. But my decision to vote Yay or Nay was finely balanced.

Will the new forum, if created, satisfy those who are currently annoyed by the same abuse spouted daily? I don't think it will.

Will the new forum, if created, satisfy those who want to abuse their political opponents? I don't think it will.

Will it provide a location to discuss political issues sensibly? It might, but those threads will be only a few among the rest.

Should political threads be moved to the new place from forums that aren't the General Board, such as the Authors' Hangout? Normally I would say 'No' as the AH is now, but if refugees from the changed General Board try to move their ranting to the AH or elsewhere, then 'Yes'.

I think politics are important, and some of the political discussions on the GB are enlightening. I am not averse to participating when I think my contribution could add something. Sometimes I'm wrong - then my post is ignored. Why not? I ignore many other posts too.

My conclusion? If the new political forum is created, and Laurel has said it would be a permanent addition, not temporary, then whether it works or not is entirely in the hands of the people who post on the General Board.

It won't solve everything. It won't satisfy everyone. It will annoy some.

Whether it is worth Laurel and Manu's effort? I don't know.

I voted no because I knew it wouldn't make things easier for those annoyed by the threads and neither do I see a sub-forum attracting regulars from other boards.

I also think that the new board is turning into a hard-sell for the guys it's meant to be for because of the poor manner in which the idea was presented. Telling a bunch of regulars that they need to be fenced in because they're a nuisance to the rest of the inmates and scaring off potentials isn't actually the best way to propose the scheme.

Not blaming laurel for it but most of the people advocating for the sub-forum seem to be shouting along those lines.

I don't really care, but I'm all about whining.

pmann in the GB, woah! Who did we exchange for you? Whoever it was, totally worth it I say.

 

[Queersetti]

People here identify themselves as PGers, GBer, HTers etc. Do you really think people won't care that it is a sub-forum of the big bad GB? I don't see new posters coming to the new sub-forum who wouldn't be coming here anyway.

As far as the politics keeping new blood out of the GB goes, there are plenty of new comers that pass through some are even witty but unless they're the time who don't mind having their strings pulled they aren't really tolerated.

I think fewer people define themselves that exclusively as you believe. But that's not the point. If there's only one person from the Playground who wants a Political Forum, that person has a right to take part in the decision making.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I wasn't surprised to see that you voted yes since you get annoyed with any thread here that isn't related to politics.

I'm sure the people who usually post in the political threads will continue to do so but I don't see new posters coming to that forum and if the politicos don't step outside the sub-forum I suspect the GB won't be as interesting as it is.

Youre fulla shit my dear. I start artsy-fartsy threads a lot.

 

[subdued_passion]

The GB had an unsavory reputation before the proliferation of political spam, so I'd say it will have little, if any effect in that regard.

I saw all the drama threads yesterday and was glad that I missed the golden years of the GB. I can see why oldies returning would find the place odd now.

I think fewer people define themselves that exclusively as you believe. But that's not the point. If there's only one person from the Playground who wants a Political Forum, that person has a right to take part in the decision making.

I wasn't talking about whether they have the right to do so. Every site member would have the right to vote. Doesn't mean they should, especially if they haven't participated or don't plan on participating.

Youre fulla shit my dear. I start artsy-fartsy threads a lot.

You haven't in a while though. You've been all politics and no valentine day flowers recently.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I think much of the motivation for the spamming of political threads is to get the reaction they do. They are meant to provoke. In a purely political forum, there would likely be fewer of them, and it may well be more inviting to new blood.

I think this is an absolutely dead-on observation. The #UsualSuspects hide behind the fig leaf of "wanting to discuss the issues of the day", but that's a canard. They don't tolerate dissent. It's all "LOOKEE ME! LOOKEE ME, MOM!" and the fact that their having a childish tantrum over the proposed change only serves to reinforce that visual.

A political forum, in my mind, would do two things: it would deprive these petulant children of their soapbox by denying them the captive audience of the General Board, and it would re-orient the General Board to its original purpose: Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n Roll, plus Dolf.

I happen to disagree with Subdued Passion's assessment that the End of The World is nigh upon us should this change occur, but she does make one salient point: this proposed change falls apart if there is no follow-through.

I really enjoy this board, but I sometimes think Laurel is way too accomodating as a moderator. Having said that, I'm not about to cancel my membership and ask for a refund of my membership dues.

The petulant political children here (specifically Ishmael, AJ, Miles and Busybody) will test Mommy Laurel's rules. Ishmael has publicly called out Laurel, declaring himself to be above forum guidelines. This attitude has trickled down to the second- and third-tier political harpies as well: Yesterday, query bragged publicly about going on an old thread-bumping binge (to "teach libs a lesson"), in essence, showing Laurel how he can cavalierly disregard rules and guidelines.

I don't envy Laurel's position, and I'm not one to usually offer unsolicited advice, but I think if she took a hard-assed approach for a month or so...quickly poofing GB political diatribes over to the political forum and perhaps giving a three-day timeout (temporary ban-hammer) to repeat offenders, the petulant children would eventually come to terms with the new reality.

One final note about a potential benefit to the new political board.....we've seen a number of folks voting in the poll who aren't active contributors. The Usual Suspects are screaming "voting fraud", but I'm of the opinion that these are simply potential GB posters who don't participate right now due to the political spamming that currently goes on here.

In summary, my viewpoint appears to be a polar opposite of Subdued Passion's...I think a political board is a huge net positive for Literotica overall.

This is just my two cents (or 1.24 rupees ) from a guy with a pocketful of change.

#ChangeIsGood

 

[subdued_passion]

@ BobDownSouth

- I don't agree that it is impossible to have a discussion with the so called usual suspects (all except vetteman and miles of course. You won't see me every trying to discuss anything with them. Miles rare has an opinion and mostly just comes across as a hollow echo chamber for whatever newsletter he's subscribed to). Especially since I almost always have a dissenting opinion and I still manage to have some form of a discussion. A discussion can involve people strongly advocating their position or stance on a subject.

- I don't believe a new sub-forum is going to be the end of the world, just the end of the world as we know it. Laurel initially brought up the subject of a new board for a specific set of reasons. The creation of the sub-forum as currently proposed fails to meet those requirement. As I mentioned in the other thread I don't believe in change for the sake of change alone. There is a cost involved (not monetary for us, members) because there always is and I don't think we fully understand what that cost will be to go ahead and make such changes.
I guess, you and Q are more positive about the change because you have witnessed the board change when the other forums were created in the past so you have a first hand understanding of how it will play out. I have to use my imagination and perhaps it's failing me or working overtime. *shrugs*

 

[bg23]

Considering the really specific criteria for what would be moved to the sub-forum I'm surprised that people still voted for it's creation, especially since most of the yay voters are ones who've kept out of the political threads and has in no way expressed that they want the new board because they would like to post in it.

All in all the feeling I got was that most people were voting yay out of spite hoping that even though it'll not rid the board of the political spammers right away they will have atleast have laid the groundwork for it.

One thing is for sure that report post/thread feature is gonna break from overuse once the sub-forum is created.

i voted yes because the hand wringing was cracking me up and the thought of irritating dipshits further really amused me.

i don't actually care whether the forum is made or not. i'd probably prefer it not be, but it doesn't bother me one way or another.

i do hope it doesn't lead to the abuse of the report-post button, but that's a hope in vain prolly.

 

[cjh]

There's a presidential election on the horizon in the States.

I think a political forum will do more to insulate the GB from the discord of political rancor than you give it credit for, SP.

 

[subdued_passion]

i voted yes because the hand wringing was cracking me up and the thought of irritating dipshits further really amused me.

i don't actually care whether the forum is made or not. i'd probably prefer it not be, but it doesn't bother me one way or another.

i do hope it doesn't lead to the abuse of the report-post button, but that's a hope in vain prolly.

I would've enjoyed the whole process more if it was a choice between the GB lounge or Politerotica. Because with those options I'm sure that whichever way the vote went there'd be a group of butt hurt posters.


While I get your reason for voting (which was really as good as any) I was surprised to see as many long time posters voting for a change. But I guess the reason may be that there weren't as many political threads in the past as there are now.


I hope posters are accounting for the fact that the chat and searching for a story stickies got rid of the threads that would usually give us a break from the political threads. Why would a new person even want to post here if they already know we're NOT going to help?

 

[RobDownSouth]

...
I guess, you and Q are more positive about the change because you have witnessed the board change when the other forums were created in the past so you have a first hand understanding of how it will play out. I have to use my imagination and perhaps it's failing me or working overtime. *shrugs*

Wait....there are other boards besides the General Board?
I think the other boards were already here when I first washed up on the shores of Lit.

There's a presidential election on the horizon in the States.

I think a political forum will do more to insulate the GB from the discord of political rancor than you give it credit for, SP.

And that's something else to be cognizant of...Political threads seem to mirror US election cycles (i.e. huge in presidential election years, large in non-presidential election years, and rather dormant on those two years between the presidential and congressional cycles.

Having said that, last year was a bit of an anomaly owing to the extreme butthurt of the Medicaid set (busybody/Vetteman/contrifan32, etc) over #ThosePeople getting access to health care via Obamacare.