Ominous prediction indeed.

[Sean Renaud]

I could respond in great detail but it would be wasted on you Sean. You occupy a fantasy land I've never experienced. I'm not against labor coming here legally to work. I am against Obama inviting an onslaught of illiterate Central Americans to create a reserve constituency, now that the more intelligent of his regular constituency is deserting him in droves. If you've read my posts with understanding, you would know I support putting CEOs in jail for knowingly hiring illegal workers to compete illegally against American workers. I don't believe that people have a right to become American citizens by invasion.

The market decides what labor is worth, not the government. You say you'd like to put a gun to the heads of CEOs and force the to pay a living wage to people regardless of skill. That makes you a Communist sympathizer, and an enemy to all things American. It means you are either ignorant, stupid, or brainwashed. It means you lack education and understanding. It means history has taught you nothing. It means you're probably too far gone to be redeemed by reality, and there's a certain reality that goes along with what you wish for. If it didn't cost so much of the innocent, I'd wish it on you.

But you're not in favor of putting CEOs in jail for moving jobs over seas. Which has all the same effects as illegals coming here to work and some worse ones. Why.

 

[cowslinger64]

I'm sure it'll be dismissed due to the origin....but it offers a good explanation of things..


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-l...t-is_b_6133920.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

[unregistered]

 

[PayDay]

I almost missed this:

#457: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62262055&postcount=457

Wouldn't it be nice if the government stopped calculating inflation in such self serving ways?

THIS-----^

 

[PayDay]

Zero inflation rate?
Okay, you've forfeited the right to serious discussion.

Absolutely. Works both ways. Your variable is now zero, where it should be.
What needs to be done?
The trick is to stop trying.

It's not like they are not getting paid or something....
That is their j o b.

p.s. Don't forget to declare "victory"!

boooooo hisss boooooo.

 

[PayDay]

The Swordmaster:

MY GOD LUCAS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE:
http://monkeyisland.wikia.com/wiki/Carla_the_Sword_Master_of_Mêlée_Island

As part of his*Three Trials*she was challenged by*Guybrush Threepwood*who managed to defeat her.

...

 

[Ishmael]

Soooooooo, what is the root cause of inflation?

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, I'm not. I believe in freedom. You don't. We need to put government in jail for creating an anti-business environment in the land of the free, and for making pussies out of the those being raised in the home of the brave.

No you don't. Freedom would allow those illegals to chase the jobs that exist in this country. That would be freedom. I know that actual honesty is abhorant to the Conservative. Faced with the truth they cannot defend their points. If we're pussies toughen us up, bring on the illegals. We can work harder for less money!

Wouldn't it be nice if the government stopped calculating inflation in such self serving ways?

http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif?hl=ad&t=

This is a comparison of how it's done now and the result of how it would be if we used the same calculations we did in 1980, when the need to cover your ass was less pressing.

I almost missed this:


THIS-----^

I missed this. If you want to go back to the calculations from the old days so fucking be it. I look at these two charts and I see lines that look very similar over all with most of the same peaks and troughs. If you're argument is you think the average American is too stupid to process that if the average effect on their wallet is the same it because 2-6% instead of 5-15% you're probably right.

But it makes no difference at all to me.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Soooooooo, what is the root cause of inflation?

Ishmael

You want the text book reason or reality?

 

[eyer]

No, I'm not. I believe in freedom.

Except the freedom, of course, for a free individual to naturally roam where s/he wishes. That's way too much freedom for me.

Yw...

 

[PayDay]

Soooooooo, what is the root cause of inflation?

Ishmael

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62265863&postcount=479

vette already did.

Grand scheme vs Grand scale

 

[PayDay]

No you don't. Freedom would allow those illegals to chase the jobs that exist in this country. That would be freedom. I know that actual honesty is abhorant to the Conservative. Faced with the truth they cannot defend their points. If we're pussies toughen us up, bring on the illegals. We can work harder for less money!

Indeed. That illustrates the difference between liberty and freedom quite well.---^

I missed this. If you want to go back to the calculations from the old days so fucking be it. I look at these two charts and I see lines that look very similar over all with most of the same peaks and troughs. If you're argument is you think the average American is too stupid to process that if the average effect on their wallet is the same it because 2-6% instead of 5-15% you're probably right.

But it makes no difference at all to me.

(Too bad):
Basically this resonates well: I wouldn't call it 'old days' - more like common sense:
From the beginning of this thread: One of the first things I posted:

#19: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62184031&postcount=19
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/08/modern-monetary-theory-is-wrong-debt.html?m=1

If a government spends and runs its business in an austere way the issue of when to start cutting or tightening should never surface.

Now add in one of the last things I posted, quoting vette: Combo move the idea:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62265863&postcount=479

I almost missed this:

#457: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62262055&postcount=457

Wouldn't it be nice if the government stopped calculating inflation in such self serving ways?

THIS-----^

...and your quitting now...

 

[PayDay]

Add @ this post into #487 above:

from #479:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62265863&postcount=479

*I look at these two charts and I see lines that look very similar over all with most of the same peaks and troughs.*

...vs...

In response to that specifically(#479): "I already did" ::
That third thing----v #210
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62208255&postcount=210

My government is saying: "Fuck you I got mine new tax base and votes" anytime I see the words 'amnesty' or 'program' .

+

#19: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62184031&postcount=19
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/08/modern-monetary-theory-is-wrong-debt.html?m=1

If a government spends and runs its business in an austere way the issue of when to start cutting or tightening should never surface.

#457: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62262055&postcount=457

Wouldn't it be nice if the government stopped calculating inflation in such self serving ways?

THIS-----^

 

[PayDay]

...woops my bad....

RELAX: THE UNIVERSE IS OUT TO GET YOU:

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/simpsons_from_space.gif

 

[RobDownSouth]

Wouldn't it be nice if the government stopped calculating inflation in such self serving ways?

http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif?hl=ad&t=

This is a comparison of how it's done now and the result of how it would be if we used the same calculations we did in 1980, when the need to cover your ass was less pressing.

Shadowstats? Again?

Sean posted the definitive takedown on their fake stats HERE


Ishmael attempts to introduce Shadowstats fake index in July 2013

Ishmael tries again to pass off fake Shadowstats index in August 2013

Naturally, any good lie is worth repeating in Wingnut nation, so Vettepunk recycles the ole Shadowstats garbage and proclaims it Gospel.

 

[PayDay]

....
Sean....
...man... #461....
...this is going to take me a bit:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62262679&postcount=461

I mean.... Damn.

Other than this semi-veiled Nazi speech about who is worthy of breeding and who isn't the reality is that the vast majority of people need the government to put a gun to the heads of employers to get paid enough under positive conditions. But lets address your fantasy.

...

Gimme more to work with: explain that----^

 

[PayDay]

Shadowstats? Again?

Sean posted the definitive takedown on their fake stats HERE


Ishmael attempts to introduce Shadowstats fake index in July 2013

Ishmael tries again to pass off fake Shadowstats index in August 2013

Naturally, any good lie is worth repeating in Wingnut nation, so Vettepunk recycles the ole Shadowstats garbage and proclaims it Gospel.

Methinks you miss his point: even if the validity of facts was in question (one man's calculation is another's heresy), the swing from way back when to now is still too high, now matter what stats are involved.

When do we start "paying the bills" in the grand scheme variation?

 

[PayDay]

I'm sure it'll be dismissed due to the origin....but it offers a good explanation of things..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-l...t-is_b_6133920.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Not due to origin, due to lack of context:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1109163
#2

How much of that $20 goes back to their government?

How much is that money worth if it's American currency?

What is the cost of living there?

Too many variables.

 

[Ishmael]

Methinks you miss his point: even if the validity of facts was in question (one man's calculation is another's heresy), the swing from way back when to now is still too high, now matter what stats are involved.

When do we start "paying the bills" in the grand scheme variation?

He didn't miss the point, he merely choose to ignore the point and attempted to change the subject.

The calculations to come up with the CPI in 1980 and 1990 are now "shadow stats" but the calculation used today is 'real.' Why is that? Yesterdays reality is today's fiction?

I suppose that it would be fruitless to point out that the greatest beneficiary of the downwardly revised CPI is the government that is doing the revisions.

Ishmael

 

[PayDay]

He didn't miss the point, he merely choose to ignore the point and attempted to change the subject.

The calculations to come up with the CPI in 1980 and 1990 are now "shadow stats" but the calculation used today is 'real.' Why is that? Yesterdays reality is today's fiction?

I suppose that it would be fruitless to point out that the greatest beneficiary of the downwardly revised CPI is the government that is doing the revisions.

Ishmael

Yeah man. Currency needs a real re value ing, consequences be damned or we'll be damned. The fact that there can be at least two sets of numbers for statistics only validates that.

Here's a good question:
If we paid off our debt, or made the move to begin solely paying it off, with say all current variables where they are, and no funny new math while we do it: No increased 'deficit' spending either:

Would the value of currency increase or decrease?

If it does increase, would that or could that offset inflation back to pre 1900 levels?

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah man. Currency needs a real re value ing, consequences be damned or we'll be damned. The fact that there can be at least two sets of numbers for statistics only validates that.

Here's a good question:
If we paid off our debt, or made the move to begin solely paying it off, with say all current variables where they are, and no funny new math while we do it: No increased 'deficit' spending either:

Would the value of currency increase or decrease?

If it does increase, would that or could that offset inflation back to pre 1900 levels?

In a real world with currency that had real value that could be the case. But that isn't the world we live in. We live in a world where nation states manipulate the value of their currencies for their own ends. The US, one of the main architects of this reality, is, like all the other participating nations, caught up in a trap of it's own devise.

And, of course, if you are the worlds reserve currency you have to print enough for everybody the world round to have some, don't you?

Ishmael

 

[PayDay]

In a real world with currency that had real value that could be the case. But that isn't the world we live in. We live in a world where nation states manipulate the value of their currencies for their own ends. The US, one of the main architects of this reality, is, like all the other participating nations, caught up in a trap of it's own devise.

And, of course, if you are the worlds reserve currency you have to print enough for everybody the world round to have some, don't you?[/b]

Ishmael

Cheapshot.

How hard would it be to return to a physical standard? I mean really? You get a massive quick dive followed by value reassessment, as long as everyone knew it was coming, what's the big deal? Y2K didn't end the world.

 

[Ishmael]

Cheapshot.

How hard would it be to return to a physical standard? I mean really? You get a massive quick dive followed by value reassessment, as long as everyone knew it was coming, what's the big deal? Y2K didn't end the world.

That's difficult to say. And exactly what would that physical standard be, corn, wheat, gold, diamonds? No matter what you picked it too would be subject to manipulation. One of the reasons we abandoned the gold standard was because the price of gold on the world market exceeded the price that the US pegged to underwrite the dollar. Nations, France being the specific culprit, that were running a trade surplus with the US demanded their payments in gold which they turned around and sold on the world market at the higher price. The US could have revalued the gold standard at the time but that would have had the same effect as devaluing the dollar..........significantly. Instant inflation.

I don't have as much of a problem with the fiat currency system we're operating under as some do. It's as good as any as long as everyone plays by the same rules. China keeps their currency purposely devalued to make their good more attractive on the world markets. It's a perpetual problem with them, but the peg the Yuan close enough that all we can do is bitch. Venezuela has their currency pegged far too high, which is the reason that it's sinking even further into the third world shit hole. Brazil and Argentina seem hell bent for leather to follow Venezuela's lead. Considering that both of those nations went down that road in the past and suffered the consequences you would think that they'd have learned. But their hugely socialist politics have trumped common sense it appears.

Then there is the BRIC's effort to try to set their own currency values to try to remove the dollar as the worlds reserve currency. An effort that will see China and India raping those that join them for their own betterment and if successful will see China and India at each others throat.

Getting back to the potential physical standard, right now there is a de facto standard and that is oil. As long as oil (portable energy) is the de facto standard the dollar will remain the worlds reserve currency. All of those spiffy alternatives are nice but they'll never supplant oil because when you get right down to it none of them are portable. And it turns out that the US is sitting on the worlds largest reserves of oil. A very beneficial condition for the nation that prints the worlds reserve currency. We have the power to control the prices (that should be obvious to even the most stalwart 'greenie' now). And that fact is in spite of our political leaderships best efforts to sabotage domestic portable energy production.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

So you in your good time-honoured libertarian fashion wish to use government force to prevent labour from selling itself cheaply. No, you want to go full socialist and blame the management for being greedy dog-eat-dog tactics. If someone is willing to work for less, isn't it stupid for management to pay more?

The least amount a worker is willing to accept to do the labour is the value of the work. Isn't that the purity of John Galt's message?

If Americans wouldn't demand higher wages for work valued lower - then they would have those jobs and the illegals wouldn't be here at all. That's the entire economic theory you espouse. Labour deserves nothing except the price the labour market demands.

If you press companies to pay "living wages" while cheaper work is available, won't they follow your advice in the minimum wage thread and move to where labour is cheap?

Pure bat-guano crazy Sophistry.

Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.
Frédéric Bastiat

Of course I want free and open borders to Capital and Labor, but a semipermeable "membrane" is nothing short of national suicide.

Are you sure you're not an Objectivist arguing in such 'absolutes' fashion? You've gone all black and white on us. Careful that your transmission does not degrade into snow...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We have two viable currency choices with which to devolve governmental power to ruin us with bubbles, gold and bitcoin.