How to compliment a woman

[satindesire]

Ah - did you actually watch the video? Did I miss something? Can you please provide the time indicators of where in the video that display "And then people rush into defend the dudes harassing her."

On Tumblr and Facebook there's been quite a backlash against that post.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

I did watch the video.
I have many opinions, but it seems as if this topic is very hurtful to some and I don't want to be insensitive to that.
I just think it's sad that there are women who think that being able to say "F Off" is empowering.

 

[KrazyWhiteBoy]

Ok, I believe I'll keep the compliments to myself

Like others have said, I find it sad that women feel threatened anywhere. But I find it especially sad if a woman feels threatened by a positive comment from a man in a very public place. I am always aware of my surroundings and believe myself a good judge of a proper situation in which to not appear threatening. At least I, thought I was. I know that I intimidate people because of my size, therefore I try to be cognizant of the surroundings in which I interact with anyone. SMH

Maybe it's where I live, or possibly the way we have been raised, but none of the women in my life have expressed the threatened feelings expressed in this thread. I will be asking them.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I just think it's sad that there are women who think that being able to say "F Off" is empowering.

This.

The right to be a complete and utter bitch is just as bad as misogyny. It shouldn't be celebrated under the guise of feminism. It does to feminism what creepy compliments do to genuine ones.

 

[NightL]

I just think it's sad that there are women who think that being able to say "F Off" is empowering.

While I do recall the comment about empowering in the video... but
"Hey honey I wanna grab ya arse" "Fuck off creep" seems a fair response to me.

I really can't see how that equates to the following at all

The right to be a complete and utter bitch is just as bad as misogyny. It shouldn't be celebrated under the guise of feminism. It does to feminism what creepy compliments do to genuine ones.

Are women not allowed to swear?

 

[Bert_Fegg]

I did watch the video.
I have many opinions, but it seems as if this topic is very hurtful to some and I don't want to be insensitive to that.
I just think it's sad that there are women who think that being able to say "F Off" is empowering.

I don't know - turn it round. Think of a woman who's being creeped on and is uncomfortable about that. She's throwing out all the non-verbal signals she can think of and trying her hardest to get the message across in a "ladylike" fashion that she wants the creep to go away, but since she's not being explicit the creep can simply disregard the signals she's putting out. Some people might not even be aware of them, but many are, and they take advantage of the fact that many women are socialised not to be confrontational. Telling someone to fuck off might not be polite or decorous, but it works in a way that nonverbals don't, and if a woman has to overcome a lifetime of socialisation in order to get to the point where she can just say to herself: "I don't want this and I don't have to put up with it - Fuck sugar and Spice." Then I'd say that's an empowering moment, even if it isn't a pretty one.

Having heard so many creep stories from my exes, I can understand where "Fuck off" is coming from. It might not be fair to some random guy who may have been genuinely trying to be nice, in a socially inept fashion, but then, if life was fair the anger at intrusive blokes would never have built up. As for the 97% of blokes who are just being arseholes - No apology to those is needed.

P.S. I got the 97% statistic from the same place Fox news gets theirs - It's not to be taken seriously....

 

[bailadora]

While I do recall the comment about empowering in the video... but
"Hey honey I wanna grab ya arse" "Fuck off creep" seems a fair response to me.

I really can't see how that equates to the following at all


Are women not allowed to swear?

I applaud the women who feel empowered enough to speak up when they feel they are being harassed. There are many who won't, fearing escalation of the situation. Many feel retreat is safer than confrontation. I admit to being one of them.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Are women not allowed to swear?

Of course they are. My comment was in response to Gigglegasm's post. I hadn't even watched the video when I wrote that.

I'm not saying that women should put up with what was in the video (just watched it a little bit ago). My point was that it's not empowering for women to do that, in general. It's not empowering for me to be an ass, is it?

The problem with this argument is that someone asked about complimenting a woman. Now we are talking about rape, sexual assault and cat calling. His comment was about a legit compliment. Women shouldn't put up with the rude comments. I agree. But a compliment comes from a different place than that.

It's like saying the guy who is a close talked should get the same treatment as someone who is pawing all over a woman. The argument and discussion was about compliments, not sexual assault.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I have a question/comment as to something said on that video. I'll go ahead and say that this question will probably be offensive and annoying to some, but the question is legit. It will probably also get people screaming I'm a misogynist and a rapist in training.

The girl who wore the camera. She admitted to dressing provocatively. It's not like she wore the clothes and was clueless. Why would one dress provocatively which, by definition, is "to deliberately arouse sexual interest"? If you don't like those kinds of reactions, why would one "provoke"?

Honest question.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

I applaud the women who feel empowered enough to speak up when they feel they are being harassed. There are many who won't, fearing escalation of the situation. Many feel retreat is safer than confrontation. I admit to being one of them.

And this is the whole point. These women weren't being complimented. They were being harassed.

First - this wasn't a true exchange. Of course she's allowed to blurt whatever she wants; but to suggest that this did anything to make her feel better or to discourage any further behavior is wrong. She did nothing but participate.

"fuck you"
"fuck you too"

it's not empowering. it's engaging. there is a difference.

Further, the videographer intentionally chose her dress and walked among herds of men to elicit a response. This example had nothing to do with complementing another person, which is something people do every day.
What frustrated me about the video is that it actually weakens the argument against harassment. Don't show me some woman dressed like a pay-to-play stereotype and expect me to be surprised. Show me some average woman at work, trying to get through her day at the office. Show me the mom of three who rushes to her minivan in the parking lot because of some creep in aisle 4. Show me anything BUT the stereotype! It exists everywhere. It's not some urban street phenomenon.

But then have the balls to show me what women constructively do to free themselves of this kind of behavior. It's not enough to just say, "it happens because men are assholes."

Remove the original intention of the op - since the conversation has really become a discussion with merit above the original question.
Where do we draw the line between complimenting someone and participating in harassment? I think that is the true question evolving on this thread.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Further, the videographer intentionally chose her dress and walked among herds of men to elicit a response. This example had nothing to do with complementing another person, which is something people do every day.
What frustrated me about the video is that it actually weakens the argument against harassment. Don't show me some woman dressed like a pay-to-play stereotype and expect me to be surprised. Show me some average woman at work, trying to get through her day at the office. Show me the mom of three who rushes to her minivan in the parking lot because of some creep in aisle 4. Show me anything BUT the stereotype! It exists everywhere. It's not some urban street phenomenon.

http://youtu.be/J7QNw1LRJv4

I can't think of a better example than this. It's completely worth watching

*watches Pmann's likability rating plummet*

 

[NightL]

Why would one dress provocatively which, by definition, is "to deliberately arouse sexual interest"? If you don't like those kinds of reactions, why would one "provoke"?

What is provocative for one can be just comfortable summer clothing for another. What a woman chooses to wear on a summer day is entirely their own business owing no justification.

Maybe living in Australia is different, the clothing the woman wore in the video would in no way be deemed provocative or inappropriate on a warm day in any Australian city.

I posted the video link basically to highlight that others do believe harassment is a little more frequent than some here believed.

Even if the 'set-up' in the video is uncomfortable for some, it is very effective in creating discussion. If one person reading this thread, watching that video stops to think how they may more positively engage with actually anyone, the whole process is worth it. So I congratulate the producers of the video.

 

[Lord Pmann]

What is provocative for one can be just comfortable summer clothing for another. What a woman chooses to wear on a summer day is entirely their own business owing no justification.

She called her own clothing provocative. She said it was. My question is why would a woman, by her own admission, dress to sexually arouse and titillate, then be shocked when her clothing sexually arouses and titillates?

 

[MeekMe]

I don't think it's 'empowering' to tell someone to fuck off. In my experience it was an auto response to try and scare people away. Get loud or puff up to look like more of a threat. Being 4'11" and 90 lbs I was always smaller than my peers. It made me an easy target for harassment. In cases where I was harassed (not in the sexual way most occasions) they were choosing me because I wasn't big and strong looking. In most cases, the only thing I could do was try to retort. It wasn't empowering, if anything it made me feel smaller.

Because of my size and my unique situation, I'm aware that I'm an easy target. For most people, hauling off 90 lbs wouldn't be a struggle. I'm also aware that everyone I pass isn't thinking about harming me. I'm cautious anyway, and if I'm alone I don't want you talking to me about how I look. No matter how innocent it seems.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/keithhabersberger/what-men-are-really-saying-when-catcalling-women?s=mobile

Figure I'll add this because I find it amusing.

 

[Mr_Jon_Thon]

-snip-

Remove the original intention of the op - since the conversation has really become a discussion with merit above the original question.
Where do we draw the line between complimenting someone and participating in harassment? I think that is the true question evolving on this thread.

Just from observing this thread, it seems to be in the eye of the beholder. An innocent funny comment can be construed a dozen different ways. Some will think harmless dork, others will think rapist, and the rest will be somewhere in the middle.

 

[NightL]

She called her own clothing provocative. She said it was. My question is why would a woman, by her own admission, dress to sexually arouse and titillate, then be shocked when her clothing sexually arouses and titillates?

It was an educational video simple as that - highlighting a point. Despite the title, the woman walking through the street was only but one aspect and example offered within.

While that one person made that one comment of dressing in what may be viewed as provocative in an educational video, those clothes may not be considered provocative by many women. Nor should they. A woman going about her day in warm weather wearing shorts and a tee-short is most likely not thinking "I'm out to sexually arouse and titillate" they are just going about their day. The video clearly indicates what may well be experienced by many who just want to go about their day.

It is a woman's right to choose their own appearance for what ever comfort and reason they have. Start imposing moral standing then where do you stop? The moral police of Iran? Burkas? Banning of tassel shoes because they cause too many comments?

 

[Lord Pmann]

It is a woman's right to choose their own appearance for what ever comfort and reason they have. Start imposing moral standing then where do you stop? The moral police of Iran? Burkas? Banning of tassel shoes because they cause too many comments?

Of course it's her right. I don't believe anyone has argued differently. But my point is, if you hate the comments, then why dress in a way that provokes them? When she herself said that she wore it to be provocative. That Dave Chapelle clip illustrated it perfectly.

And yes, it was one part of the video, the main part. The video was called "A Woman Wore A Hidden Camera To Show How Many Times In A Day She
Gets Harassed". It should have been called "A Woman Dresses Provocatively and Wears a Hidden Camera- See How She Gets Harrassed".

For the record, I think their comments were incredibly inappropriate. It sucks that she got treated like that, for sure.

I'm not saying that a girl can't dress how she wants. My point was she was doing it to provoke. Then she complained when it provoked.

 

[NightL]

There really is an easy answer to all of this, if anyone feels affronted or they just can't possibly contain themselves in the presence of a woman without causing offence, maybe just maybe they are the ones who should stay (or be kept) at home.

Ultimately it is about education and respect. That has to come from within the schools because it appears a whole lot of parents have not done a great job with their sons.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I have an idea. Sort of like a PSA or one of those shitty PBS info videos. We could have little cartoons and such about sexual harassment.

Here are my ideas for characters...

South Park already provided us with Sexual Harassment Panda:

Misogynistic Monkey:

Ronnie the Rapey, Rimming Rat:

All hosted by Rapey Dave:

 

[NightL]

bring back the bat - has to have a starring role.

 

[Saucyminx]

One example of how a compliment can go straight to hell really fast.

Last December I was in the liquor store. I was in jeans and a turtleneck, and the high heeled boots that I wear most of the winter. I was choosing some wine, and an elderly gentleman with a walker came over and smiled and said "I'm so glad high heels are back in fashion."

I smiled back and said, "They never went out of fashion for me."

End of exchange right? No. This old geezer then patted my ass on his way past. I whipped around and was about to smack him upside the head, and then thought, it would ruin the whole family's Christmas if I pushed Peepaw down and broke his hip. Ten years ago I would have flattened him, but age has mellowed me out a little bit, but I was furious.

It's not about what you look like--I'm not Miss America by any stretch of the imagination. It's not about what you're wearing.

 

[KrazyWhiteBoy]

Inform the men in your life

I know for myself the fact that this many women feel threatened on a daily basis, is not only shocking, but very upsetting. I would suggest to all females to make this known to all of the males in your life. My Mom, Sister, Wife, and two Daughters have never expressed feeling threatened by men in public. When those I love feel threatened, or if I perceive a threat to those I love, it has a visceral effect on me. If I knew that my actions would have this kind of effect on women, I would not continue those actions.

 

[MeekMe]

It's hard to put this into words, but I'm not ok with with the Chapelle argument. I've seen his stand up and I've even laughed at the joke.

The reason I think this is wrong is that women have historically been viewed as being the less sexual gender. We know now that women are just as sexual, but the view has been that women are proper and chaste and men are sexual beasts.

We associate a style of dress on a woman as being "whorish" because we see women as not being openly sexual. The moment she wears a tank top and short shorts she's a whore. Since she's openly being a whore, she MUST be looking to get that kind of attention. Otherwise, she'd wear loose fitting clothes that didn't accentuate her body.

As a side note, a whore or even a sex worker deserve as much respect as any other person.

Wearing tight fitting or "provocative" clothing doesn't take away a man's ability to be respectful. It doesn't automatically shut down his ability to be civil. To say that it's her fault for dressing that way is also to say that they didn't have control of their own actions.

As for that, I don't dress "provocatively" and I've gotten yelled at by passing cars, harassed in my own condo parking lot, and a man even grabbed my hair once to get my attention in passing. I'm not ASKING to be treated like this and by somehow eluding to "she was wearing THAT so she was ASKING for that treatment" is fucking bullshit.

 

[Netzach]

One example of how a compliment can go straight to hell really fast.

Last December I was in the liquor store. I was in jeans and a turtleneck, and the high heeled boots that I wear most of the winter. I was choosing some wine, and an elderly gentleman with a walker came over and smiled and said "I'm so glad high heels are back in fashion."

I smiled back and said, "They never went out of fashion for me."

End of exchange right? No. This old geezer then patted my ass on his way past. I whipped around and was about to smack him upside the head, and then thought, it would ruin the whole family's Christmas if I pushed Peepaw down and broke his hip. Ten years ago I would have flattened him, but age has mellowed me out a little bit, but I was furious.

It's not about what you look like--I'm not Miss America by any stretch of the imagination. It's not about what you're wearing.

Not only this, but you're a bitch because he's a charming old man being charming and old and raised in Mad Man era, and you're just a sourpuss.

I don't know why we're not the sex going postal every week.

 

[Netzach]

It's hard to put this into words, but I'm not ok with with the Chapelle argument. I've seen his stand up and I've even laughed at the joke.

The reason I think this is wrong is that women have historically been viewed as being the less sexual gender. We know now that women are just as sexual, but the view has been that women are proper and chaste and men are sexual beasts.

We associate a style of dress on a woman as being "whorish" because we see women as not being openly sexual. The moment she wears a tank top and short shorts she's a whore. Since she's openly being a whore, she MUST be looking to get that kind of attention. Otherwise, she'd wear loose fitting clothes that didn't accentuate her body.

As a side note, a whore or even a sex worker deserve as much respect as any other person.

Wearing tight fitting or "provocative" clothing doesn't take away a man's ability to be respectful. It doesn't automatically shut down his ability to be civil. To say that it's her fault for dressing that way is also to say that they didn't have control of their own actions.

As for that, I don't dress "provocatively" and I've gotten yelled at by passing cars, harassed in my own condo parking lot, and a man even grabbed my hair once to get my attention in passing. I'm not ASKING to be treated like this and by somehow eluding to "she was wearing THAT so she was ASKING for that treatment" is fucking bullshit.

And sometimes it's just a billion degrees out.

If the boys are so jealous of tanks they can always take off their shirts in public and get graded by everyone looking too.