Reliable & Valid Feedback

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Who do you count on when you want real feedback?

A long-time friend of mine, and professional writer/editor, checks my wares (occasionally) and sends me assays. So I get a good sense of where I am, and where I need to be. We discuss Loving Wives a lot. She says improve your writing and ignore LW reactions, as LW readers want validation NOT good writing. Popularity can be a trap.

 

[SamScribble]

I certainly don't rely on reader feedback. Opinion is not usually valid criticism.

I get some very good reader feedback, and, yes, that's very nice. But it's not something that I really trust. The advice that I really trust is from an (occasional) writer of erotica who is just an all round good writer. Her comments are something which I take seriously.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I have a beta reader who is one of the best writers on this site. I ask her for her general impressions as well as any specific concerns I have. I tell her to be as hard on me as possible. She sends back a detailed analysis, picking apart plot points, dialogue, language, pace, etc.

 

[lovecraft68]

An old curmudgeon I met through lit(nope not JBJ) who has no issue with kicking my ass all over the place when I send him "half assed garbage" but will also tell me, "Damn kid this is not half bad!"

But either way he goes into a lot of detail with what sucks and doesn't and why and how to make it all better.

He publishes erotica and hates covers and formatting so deal is he beta reads and does some editing for me and I make him covers and upload his books for him.

 

[patientlee]

Repeat customers. When I get comments, faves, etc. from the same people, I figure it was good enough.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Easy:

When someone tells me that I am the greatest writer of smut to ever walk the earth, I generally believe him and consider him to be a person of great culture, possessed of an obviously superior intellect. Congratulations on your exceptional tastes, sir. They will serve you well in life. Not everyone is so blessed with the ability to see the truth of matters and appreciate real, true genius. You're lucky. To be honest, I envy you being able to read me and appreciate my ability in such a way. I'm too busy creating masterpieces to really enjoy my own wonder. I'm jealous, of your simple, easy life. I'll admit it. Oh, you! *waves hand* No, you're the best. No, you are! Ok, ok. I am! Now get out of here you little scamp and try to make your way through the rest of the day without crying when you encounter other, lesser sentences. Don't worry. The bad syntax can't get you. Not while Daddy's here!

When someone criticizes me, I generally assume they are having a stroke and ask them if they smell toast. Then I direct them to the hospital in a witty way that shows off my obvious skills yet highlights my humbleness and the charming way in which I absolutely don't pander for attention.

(I have an editor. She busts my balls and makes fun of my spelling. Afterward, if she is feeling generous, she allows me to hold my literary babies one last time before she slits their throats and leaves them lying on the cutting-room floor. She's the best.)

 

[lovecraft68]

Repeat customers. When I get comments, faves, etc. from the same people, I figure it was good enough.

I'll never be good enough.

The day I think I am is the day I'll stop so hopefully I'm never satisfied.

 

[patientlee]

I'll never be good enough.

The day I think I am is the day I'll stop so hopefully I'm never satisfied.

I didn't say I am good enough. I said my story was good enough to make the reader come back for more.

I'm all about the learning.

 

[lovecraft68]

I didn't say I am good enough. I said my story was good enough to make the reader come back for more.

I'm all about the learning.

Good that you know that you're not good enough. An unworthy slut like....

Oh, sorry back in circle mode.

 

[patientlee]

Good that you know that you're not good enough. An unworthy slut like....

Oh, sorry back in circle mode.

My confidence is tenuous enough without name calling.

 

[DonnaBeck]

Who do you count on when you want real feedback?

A long-time friend of mine, and professional writer/editor, checks my wares (occasionally) and sends me assays. So I get a good sense of where I am, and where I need to be. We discuss Loving Wives a lot. She says improve your writing and ignore LW reactions, as LW readers want validation NOT good writing. Popularity can be a trap.

Even though you do not value my opinion, I will put it out there in case anyone else has this question. It helps to have more than one editor. I read something for a friend recently and thought it was crap and planned to talk to her about it, the next I reread it to make some notes and thought it was brilliant. I realized my mood when I read it greatly influenced my opinion.

I just wrote something and sent it to two men that read my stuff. One said it felt forced and unlike my other writing, the second one said it was the best thing I have written. Sex is so subjective and complex, it is difficult to get a true assessment on writing skills and separate that from if you have managed to turn the reader on. I have read great stories that do not turn me on and vice versa.

On the other hand, I try to write non-erotica as well and have never found such a great place to share writing that actually gets read and receives feedback. I only wish there was not such a mean-spirited element, but that is rather naive and wishful thinking of me. I still believe in good manners, even on a porn site. I guess I will never fit in.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Even though you do not value my opinion, I will put it out there in case anyone else has this question. It helps to have more than one editor. I read something for a friend recently and thought it was crap and planned to talk to her about it, the next I reread it to make some notes and thought it was brilliant. I realized my mood when I read it greatly influenced my opinion.

I just wrote something and sent it to two men that read my stuff. One said it felt forced and unlike my other writing, the second one said it was the best thing I have written. Sex is so subjective and complex, it is difficult to get a true assessment on writing skills and separate that from if you have managed to turn the reader on. I have read great stories that do not turn me on and vice versa.

On the other hand, I try to write non-erotica as well and have never found such a great place to share writing that actually gets read and receives feedback. I only wish there was not such a mean-spirited element, but that is rather naive and wishful thinking of me. I still believe in good manners, even on a porn site. I guess I will never fit in.

I agree mood affects reading, and readers always have excuses to ding stories, if they wanna ding stories. Many of my favorite books are hated and scorned by critics and other readers. I'm thinking of Chester Himes' Harlem Series. And every publisher has rejected best sellers. George V.Higgins' first novel spent 17 years on the shelf, and was an immediate hit when someone finally bought it. People generally are clueless about real merit.

 

[walkerlong]

My beta reader is myself on a different day. A somewhat limited perspective, but I never have to worry about hurting my feelings.

 

[VenusButterflies]

My beta reader is myself on a different day. A somewhat limited perspective, but I never have to worry about hurting my feelings.

You're lucky. Even on different days I worry about hurting my feelings. Sometimes I dread looking back, hoping I don't wind up with an "Ugh! What were you thinking?!"

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You're lucky. Even on different days I worry about hurting my feelings. Sometimes I dread looking back, hoping I don't wind up with an "Ugh! What were you thinking?!"

My beta reader works for a major Hollywood film company, and when she says IT SUCKS or FUCK WHAT LIT READERS THINK, ITS GOOD, I PAY ATTENTION. She edited my Green E story. and readers hate it. So what does that say? Readers eat shit. Write for readers who know what theyre reading.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Readers eat shit. Write for readers who know what theyre reading.

I've always found this to be the great paradox of writing. Namely, that half of the great writers in history couldn't sell three-dollars worth of dime-store drivel during a brownout in butt-fuck Iowa. Their stuff is often too dense or esoteric for the average reader--but they are, upon true, "valid" inspection, obviously masters of the craft.

That doesn't mean, however, that just because people hate your stuff and think it's boring that you're the second-coming of Melville or a modern-day Dickens. It means people hate your stuff. You could be good. You could be dreadful. Only thing that's for sure, is that you're not popular. The disgust of the uneducated does not correlate, necessarily, to the adoration of the wise.

So how do you know? Most mean are about as unbiased about their writing as they are their cocks: it's either a shriveled little attempt at greatness that falls short, a source of personal neuroses and constant doubt, or it's a great thundering object of pleasure which you talk about at parties and social gatherings, to people who don't particularly care, so that others may know it and bask in its light.

Do you trust the experts? The woman of experience, who finds your unusual technique exhilarating, and your penchant for the obscure captivatingly original? Or do you trust the masses? The list of girls who freaked out when you tried to give them a rim-job and now warn their friends not to talk to you because you're "weird"?

Being kinky doesn't make you good between the sheets. It makes you kinky. Likewise, being erudite doesn't make you good between the pages. It makes you erudite.

There's too much hate in the world for those who are making people sigh and scream in cliche, vanilla ways: the Steven Kings, the E. L. Jameses, the fucking Danielle Steels Making people feel good is making people feel good. No matter the medium. Judge yourself by the emotional response. And by all means, revel in your ability to fill that niche. Just don't badmouth Missionary-Mike because he gets more moans than you.

 

[SikFuk]

.... She edited my Green E story. and readers hate it....

Where's your Green E story? I'm looking at your Submissions page but I don't see it. Did you sell it and take it down?

 

[sr71plt]

Where's your Green E story? I'm looking at your Submissions page but I don't see it. Did you sell it and take it down?

No, he made it up. Shows how needy he is, doesn't it?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Where's your Green E story? I'm looking at your Submissions page but I don't see it. Did you sell it and take it down?

At an alt account PILOT has no access to.

 

[sr71plt]

At an alt account PILOT has no access to.

Which means, of course, that it isn't JAMESBJOHNSON's Green E (and conveniently can't be evidenced either).

So any reference in the "I" form to a Green E should come from the account it was acquired in. And this would be easy for JBJ to evidence if he isn't lying. He could simply post to the forum in that name an "it is I" post. We could all go to that account and go, "Wow, it really is him," and he could just toss that account aside and open a new unconnected account. He couldn't have a problem with the Green E story then being trashed in the ratings, because he's already stated that it's been trashed.

The only reason he wouldn't do that is that he doesn't have a Green E under any account. Of course he could point to an account and claim it's his--he's already been caught plagiarizing here and he obviously makes his anecdotes up as he needs them--but to make this believable he would have to post an "it is I" message in that account name here on the forum.

What are the bets that he will prove his claim out? I bet "no" (I'll bet he just blusters "I don't care what anyone thinks," when he obviously does or he wouldn't make the claim in the first place), because we've been through this several times before--and because I'd like to give him the extra incentive to show everyone that I'm wrong. Now who, sitting on no-cost proof, could resist that if he isn't lying?

Of course, it wouldn't show me up in terms of writing ability, because I'm practically the only one here who says he can write well--he's just too lazy to actually do it. It's easier to make the claims than to back them up. And he is, after all, a congenital liar, and one really attention needy dude.

(Oh, by the way, I think he only makes the claim to get a rise out of me--but I don't care. I look at it as an opportunity for newbe posters to see through him.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Which means, of course, that it isn't JAMESBJOHNSON's Green E (and conveniently can't be evidenced either).

So any reference in the "I" form to a Green E should come from the account it was acquired in. And this would be easy for JBJ to evidence if he isn't lying. He could simply post to the forum in that name an "it is I" post. We could all go to that account and go, "Wow, it really is him," and he could just toss that account aside and open a new unconnected account. He couldn't have a problem with the Green E story then being trashed in the ratings, because he's already stated that it's been trashed.

The only reason he wouldn't do that is that he doesn't have a Green E under any account. Of course he could point to an account and claim it's his--he's already been caught plagiarizing here and he obviously makes his anecdotes up as he needs them--but to make this believable he would have to post an "it is I" message in that account name here on the forum.

What are the bets that he will prove his claim out? I bet "no" (I'll bet he just blusters "I don't care what anyone thinks," when he obviously does or he wouldn't make the claim in the first place), because we've been through this several times before--and because I'd like to give him the extra incentive to show everyone that I'm wrong. Now who, sitting on no-cost proof, could resist that if he isn't lying?

Of course, it wouldn't show me up in terms of writing ability, because I'm practically the only one here who says he can write well--he's just too lazy to actually do it. It's easier to make the claims than to back them up. And he is, after all, a congenital liar, and one really attention needy dude.

If I didn't write it, who did? I put it elsewhere so my AH friends cant shit on it. Take my word for it, its not popular as it is, cuz LIT readers luv the Alice Nelson and Sam Franklin vacation in Cleveland OH and share a black cock stories. JBJ is my sketch pad.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, that was typical nonsense. Nobody wrote it; it doesn't exist. How stupid can you be about this?

See, he doesn't have one under any name. He's just lying and wishing he did have one--and, for him, wishing enough can make it happen (in his mind).

Pathetic.

 

[sheablue]

"ask them if they smell toast."

I laughed out loud at that! And at your impressively modest outlook on life. You must be such a treasure to all of your family and friends.

Easy:

When someone tells me that I am the greatest writer of smut to ever walk the earth, I generally believe him and consider him to be a person of great culture, possessed of an obviously superior intellect. Congratulations on your exceptional tastes, sir. They will serve you well in life. Not everyone is so blessed with the ability to see the truth of matters and appreciate real, true genius. You're lucky. To be honest, I envy you being able to read me and appreciate my ability in such a way. I'm too busy creating masterpieces to really enjoy my own wonder. I'm jealous, of your simple, easy life. I'll admit it. Oh, you! *waves hand* No, you're the best. No, you are! Ok, ok. I am! Now get out of here you little scamp and try to make your way through the rest of the day without crying when you encounter other, lesser sentences. Don't worry. The bad syntax can't get you. Not while Daddy's here!

When someone criticizes me, I generally assume they are having a stroke and ask them if they smell toast. Then I direct them to the hospital in a witty way that shows off my obvious skills yet highlights my humbleness and the charming way in which I absolutely don't pander for attention.

(I have an editor. She busts my balls and makes fun of my spelling. Afterward, if she is feeling generous, she allows me to hold my literary babies one last time before she slits their throats and leaves them lying on the cutting-room floor. She's the best.)

 

[sheablue]

I have a very good Lit friend who is one of the best writers around. She reads my stories if I have time to send them and tells me how brilliant I am before she points out all of the errors. She's the best.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, that was typical nonsense. Nobody wrote it; it doesn't exist. How stupid can you be about this?

See, he doesn't have one under any name. He's just lying and wishing he did have one--and, for him, wishing enough can make it happen (in his mind).

Pathetic.

Ha, its not like JBJ isn't toxic and glows in the dark. Hell, I have a few alts, one I created for cats I don't usually post to. JBJ is for LW.