Your "belief" is not more important than my reality.

[julybaby04]

Guess we all will have to wait until a decision is made in June.

At that point, if Hobby Lobby wins, then the employes can decide to stay or not.

If Hobby Lobby loses, then they can decide to stay in business or not.

Seems rather simple at that point.

 

[Lorilei]

Guess we all will have to wait until a decision is made in June.

At that point, if Hobby Lobby wins, then the employes can decide to stay or not.

If Hobby Lobby loses, then they can decide to stay in business or not.

Seems rather simple at that point.

Right. Because if they are forced to continue to allow their employees to have access to those same 4 forms of birth control they've been allowed access to all these years ALREADY, they'll be forced to go out of business. Because nothing will have changed at all. Not to mention that they're making money off those same drugs with their investments.

Makes sense.

 

[StrangeLife]

Seems to me, subsidising $18/year of the contraceptive pill is a fuckload cheaper than paying out welfare to a woman who has a baby she didn't want.
Why is this even a debate?

Because of that little word "subsidising." It's like an expensive perfume and strong Wasabi - to be used sparingly and with caution...

 

[RobDownSouth]

Can someone explain why the Lit General Board has become a garbage dump for extreme social liberal trash threads?

Life would be soooo much easier if we all just agreed with you, put on jackboots just like yours and goosestepped everywhere just like you, right?

 

[UrsulaX]

Forcing someone with deeply held religious beliefs to "help pay" for someone to have an abortion is directly related to this.

Actually, it’s not. With all due respect to anyone afflicted with that incurable condition known as the deeply held religious belief, I think we can defer to the medical community here to define birth control (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/birthcontrol.html) and abortion (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/abortion.html). Please note that the emergency contraceptives Hobby Lobby rejects--IUDs, Plan B, and ella--are all classified as birth control. The only link to abortion is the effect of affordable birth control on the rate of unplanned pregnancies. In that regard, the preventive care regulations could be considered a policy attempt to lower the abortion rate.

Everyone is forced. If someone already has insurance (and presumably was not one of those who had it canceled), then they have no issues. If someone had their's cancelled because it was not "good enough" as decided by some politician in DC, the they have to find new insurance....and probably at much higher rates....when they were very happy with the coverage they had.

If you are going to acknowledge the flaws and administrative difficulties plaguing the Affordable Care Act, you should also acknowledge the lamentable compromises its proponents were forced to make in response to fierce opposition from partisan interests. The result is not ideal, but it’s also not the arbitrary whim of a single politician. At the very least, the rules and regulations concerning preventive care cite published studies and cater to criticisms and recommendations from myriad sources. Moreover, the analysts and advisors at the Department of Health and Human Services are arguably more qualified to evaluate health plans and certainly subject to greater oversight than the owners of arts and crafts stores.

If someone is young, in their 20's and are healthy and do not want nor need the extra expense of healthcare, they no longer have that option. They are FORCED to purchase something.

The fate of health insurance depends on the young and healthy. That’s how risk pools work.

Yes, there are those who choose not to go under financially to purchase something they don't need or already had, but now have to pay a FINE. How completely ridiculous is that? The government decided this. There idea of freedom in this country has been taken away.

Let’s examine this draconian fine, shall we?

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-dont-have-health-coverage/

If you are uninsured and your household income is below $19,650, you will pay $95 when you file your tax return this year. Otherwise, you will pay 1% of your annual household income. If the fee is unaffordable, you may qualify for Medicaid, Medicare, or an exemption. My health insurance costs much more than that, but it’s a mandatory expense. Don’t let the young idiots fool you; everyone needs health insurance. As John Cleese opined, “Life is a terminal disease, and it is sexually transmitted.”

 

[RobDownSouth]

Ursula, I seriously doubt you'll get an acknowledgement from Julybaby04.

Julybaby04 has had risk pools explained to her on numerous occasions by numerous posters, she always dismisses them as fundamentally "unfair".

She has opined long and loud (mostly loud) that parents of "defective" children should simply shut their mouth and gratefully pay "a little extra" for each of their childrens' defects (asthma, diabetes, etc). This would keep HER premiums "fair", and more importantly, not financially impeded her family's annual vacation to Disney World.

Oh, and health insurance should NEVER exceed three percent of a family's budget. The nine percent maximum in the Obamacare legislation is just too God Damned High.

 

[Lorilei]

Actually, it’s not. With all due respect to anyone afflicted with that incurable condition known as the deeply held religious belief, I think we can defer to the medical community here to define birth control (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/birthcontrol.html) and abortion (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/abortion.html). Please note that the emergency contraceptives Hobby Lobby rejects--IUDs, Plan B, and ella--are all classified as birth control. The only link to abortion is the effect of affordable birth control on the rate of unplanned pregnancies. In that regard, the preventive care regulations could be considered a policy attempt to lower the abortion rate.



If you are going to acknowledge the flaws and administrative difficulties plaguing the Affordable Care Act, you should also acknowledge the lamentable compromises its proponents were forced to make in response to fierce opposition from partisan interests. The result is not ideal, but it’s also not the arbitrary whim of a single politician. At the very least, the rules and regulations concerning preventive care cite published studies and cater to criticisms and recommendations from myriad sources. Moreover, the analysts and advisors at the Department of Health and Human Services are arguably more qualified to evaluate health plans and certainly subject to greater oversight than the owners of arts and crafts stores.



The fate of health insurance depends on the young and healthy. That’s how risk pools work.



Let’s examine this draconian fine, shall we?

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-dont-have-health-coverage/

If you are uninsured and your household income is below $19,650, you will pay $95 when you file your tax return this year. Otherwise, you will pay 1% of your annual household income. If the fee is unaffordable, you may qualify for Medicaid, Medicare, or an exemption. My health insurance costs much more than that, but it’s a mandatory expense. Don’t let the young idiots fool you; everyone needs health insurance. As John Cleese opined, “Life is a terminal disease, and it is sexually transmitted.”

Hello, it's nice to meet you.

 

[UrsulaX]

In response to Rob's comments:

Yeah, the ACA is flawed, and I actually thought your two-sentence responses were sufficient. Sometimes I post against my better judgment. Chalk it up to a bad day at work. I tend to get a little carried away.

 

[eyer]

Don’t let the young idiots fool you; everyone needs health insurance.

You seem to be knowledgeable and articulate...

...why do you allow lazy generalization to lie for you?

Case in point:

I just computed the years, and a full 76% of my life since age 18 has been conducted without any form of health insurance; the last time I was insured was 1999. The only times I've had to seek any kind of medical attention since then are annual physicals needed for licensing requirements and dental maintenance - all handled out-of-pocket...

...and since I'm hardly unique in any other fact of life, there must be millions of other Americans who've lived similar lives.

"Everyone" is not true, but I understand propaganda helps sell...

...if you would've used the still subjectively-stretching "Most of us", I probably wouldn't have posted a word.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

If a corporation is inseparable from the religious beliefs of the shareholders, then the debts, obligations, legal liabilities, and assets of the corporation must be inseparable from the wealth of the shareholders as well.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

FOX News Small Business center: Five Reasons Why a Small Business Should Incorporate

 

[Tryharder62]

It shouldn't be, but there are some factions of America (the Christian Taliban) who would like to drag America back a couple hundred years.

And I say that as a Christian, but one who finds the extreme fundamentalists abhorrent.

Hey, I was going to private pm you but couldn't. Just had a quick question. Just curious how you see a Christian vs Fundamentalist Christian. What is the difference to you? I googled some but didn't see clear answers. Does it center around the bible? Just wondering.

 

[Bacigalupo]

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10001531_10152050605631872_279374104_n.jpg

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

"Betty Bowers, one of those rare, highly outspoken Christians who comes from the political left,
has a new chart to share. See it over on the left and click on it to enlarge. The chart shows how
many more people are expected to die in each state that is refusing Medicaid expansion
under the Affordable Care Act, compared to that state's historical deaths every year by guns."

from the same article-

Walker keeps claiming that the people he's removing from Medicaid protection beginning in April can simply go over to the Affordable Care Act web site (which he refused to set up, forcing the feds to do it at the last minute) and get themselves a subsidized health plan. Trouble is, the ACA plans were never intended to cover low-income people.

Only a stupid US Supreme Court decision allowed states to opt out of that system.

In Wisconsin, many of those 83,000 people Walker is casting off simply won't be able to get a subsidy, or afford ACA-approved health plans without a subsidy. Instead, based on the low income they report to the site, they will be told that under ACA rules they are eligible for Medicaid and referred back to the State of Wisconsin, which already ditched them! Talk about your health-care donut hole! Actually, any elected "leader" who would continue to take Walker's stance must have a donut hole for a brain.

http://uppitywis.org/blogarticle/new-chart-shows-predicted-wisconsin-deaths-due-walker-medicaid-p

 

[John Doe]

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10001531_10152050605631872_279374104_n.jpg

"Sister wives are served in the rear"

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z104/Becca1904/Smileys/Confused/theyebrowraise.gif

 

[yossi]

"Sister wives are served in the rear"

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z104/Becca1904/Smileys/Confused/theyebrowraise.gif

I think it means anal. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.

 

[Lorilei]

Hey, I was going to private pm you but couldn't. Just had a quick question. Just curious how you see a Christian vs Fundamentalist Christian. What is the difference to you? I googled some but didn't see clear answers. Does it center around the bible? Just wondering.

Well, it's not an easy thing to pin down (it's kind of like pornography, you just know it when you see it), and I freely admit that others may not see it the same way I do, but here's a start. Essentially, it's someone who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible, who believes in Creationism over Evolution, who clings to the way things were done in the past, and who fights against social progression.

http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

 

[Byron In Exile]

I think it means anal. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.

Way to shift me... "know what I mean??"

Doesn't take much...

 

[about_average]

Well, it's not an easy thing to pin down (it's kind of like pornography, you just know it when you see it), and I freely admit that others may not see it the same way I do, but here's a start. Essentially, it's someone who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible and who clings to the way things were done in the past, and who fights against social progression.

http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

I also find that Christian fundamentalists typically believe the US should be a theocracy (rather, more of one than it already is). IMO their desire to manage the lives of others is little different than Muslim fundamentalists, or any other religious fundamentalist.

 

[Lorilei]

I also find that Christian fundamentalists typically believe the US should be a theocracy (rather, more of one than it already is). IMO their desire to manage the lives of others is little different than Muslim fundamentalists, or any other religious fundamentalist.

Agreed, they want legislation based on their religious beliefs, thereby forcing their own particular beliefs on others.

 

[Tryharder62]

Well, it's not an easy thing to pin down (it's kind of like pornography, you just know it when you see it), and I freely admit that others may not see it the same way I do, but here's a start. Essentially, it's someone who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible, who believes in Creationism over Evolution, who clings to the way things were done in the past, and who fights against social progression.

http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

I think you're right, it means different things to different people. I tried to google and found much the same information but some changed from site to site. Thanks for the information and your answer.

Kath

 

[Lorilei]

I think you're right, it means different things to different people. I tried to google and found much the same information but some changed from site to site. Thanks for the information and your answer.

Kath

You're welcome.

 

[Tryharder62]

Agreed, they want legislation based on their religious beliefs, thereby forcing their own particular beliefs on others.

The problem I have is that if you take away all the religious beliefs of all the people, then you have secular beliefs. Some people just saying that this is the way it should be because I said so. Those that can say it the loudest win. That is really what I have trouble wrapping my head around. There are some people I really don't want to follow just because they said so.

 

[julybaby04]

Right. Because if they are forced to continue to allow their employees to have access to those same 4 forms of birth control they've been allowed access to all these years ALREADY, they'll be forced to go out of business. Because nothing will have changed at all. Not to mention that they're making money off those same drugs with their investments.

Makes sense.

Or because they have taken a stand....if they lose, they probably have enough money to not be FORCED to do something they do not want to do.

If they close, it will be their choice.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The problem I have is that if you take away all the religious beliefs of all the people, then you have secular beliefs. Some people just saying that this is the way it should be because I said so. Those that can say it the loudest win. That is really what I have trouble wrapping my head around. There are some people I really don't want to follow just because they said so.

Aren't you describing quote secular humanism unquote?

The absence of government-sponsored or government-preferred religion does not result in the establishment of any sort of "secular belief" in my opinion (the classic "church" and "state" argument).