Will Ukraine situation lead to World War III?

[renard_ruse]

Yes, the Baltic states are next.

First point, the Russian Federation in 2014 is NOT the USSR, anymore than the US is the Confederacy.

Secondly, even if it were, the USSR had resigned itself to the Baltics leaving the Union a few years BEFORE the Soviet Union broke up. Gorbachev accepted this, but did not want the other republics to leave (including Russia, which left the USSR before several of the other republics, remember that little curiosity? For a brief time the USSR existed without Russia, at least in name).

Nobody in Russia, besides maybe Zhirinovsky, has any designs on the Baltics.

 

[renard_ruse]

The Baltic states that are in NATO? I'll take that bet.

There's a good reason, by the way, that none of the last three presidents have shown the slightest interest in getting Ukraine into NATO.

Lol. Ukraine has been on the NATO dinner menu for years, ultimately so is Russia.

 

[renard_ruse]

Crimeans will get to vote on their future, while Ukranians did NOT get to vote on the government they elected being overthrown by a mob in the street. Which side is more democratic and civilized is quite clear, and it isn't the western-backed putschists in Kiev.

The putschists have installed their own puppet governors in the districts in eastern and southern Ukraine, many of them linked to organized crime or extremist groups in the western part of the country, and not even locals. Still nobody has voted on any of this.

 

[Sean]

Crimeans will get to vote on their future,

Have you seen the questions on the referendum? People in the Crimea can vote for whether to be part of the Russian Federation or to be an independent state. They aren't given the option to remain in the Ukraine.

 

[BiGuyfromOz]

WW3, your dreaming

What a ridiculous thought process, No I have not read the whole thread. It's not worthwhile pulling out the 6 shooters. Next thread please. When I was in Hawaii last I met a lovely couple (septics) and got chatting. They asked where I was from, obviously they didn't pick up on the accent. I indicated Australia was an island in the Carribbean, and they were cool with that. I look fwd to landing in the good old US and having a ball. Ball means fun FYI.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I say offer Putin a compromise: He can keep Crimea and the West won't object, and the rest of Ukraine can join NATO and he won't object.

 

[Primalex]

Have you seen the questions on the referendum? People in the Crimea can vote for whether to be part of the Russian Federation or to be an independent state. They aren't given the option to remain in the Ukraine.

So what? As independent state they can make the decision to join the Ukraine.

 

[Primalex]

I say offer Putin a compromise: He can keep Crimea and the West won't object, and the rest of Ukraine can join NATO and he won't object.

And what do we give Putin for the other 12 countries that joined the NATO despite that it was agreed that the NATO would not move further eastwards?

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

No.

I agree with Vette on this one.

^ what he said

 

[bill-pix-trade]

We should start to worry when Alaska wants to join Russia.

 

[Scotsman69]

Please remember the most important fact in this dispute about Russia/Ukraine/Crimea.

Most of Europe; Scotland, Norway and the Netherlands apart, depends on heavily on Russian natural gas for a large part of its energy supply. And the main pipelines run through the Ukraine, but not Crimea.

I understand most US folk won't know this. But every European government does. Acutely. That's why this wee dispute in a remote corner of eastern Europe is a big issue. The US government is dancing to western Europe's tune. And even the most right-wing US administration would do the same. The EU has a much larger population, and GDP, than the USA has.

 

[renard_ruse]

What a ridiculous thought process, No I have not read the whole thread. It's not worthwhile pulling out the 6 shooters. Next thread please. When I was in Hawaii last I met a lovely couple (septics) and got chatting. They asked where I was from, obviously they didn't pick up on the accent. I indicated Australia was an island in the Carribbean, and they were cool with that. I look fwd to landing in the good old US and having a ball. Ball means fun FYI.

Speaking of Hawaii, I seem to remember reading in history class about a certain country having annexed it.

 

[renard_ruse]

I love how Rush Limbaugh is actually saying that America should be the "world's policeman." He actually used those words. Yet, he doesn't want to pay taxes. Doesn't want tariffs on imported goods either. So, where is the moolah going to come from to pay for this endless interventionism?

Neo-cons are bigger morons than liberals sometimes.

 

[snugglestruggle]

When you signal weakness your advisaries take advantage of you.
This is just the begining.

 

[KingOrfeo]

And what do we give Putin for the other 12 countries that joined the NATO despite that it was agreed that the NATO would not move further eastwards?

Chocolate chip cookies. Everybody likes chocolate chip cookies.

 

[snugglestruggle]

The EU has a much larger population, and GDP, than the USA has.

World bank GDP Stats (2012)

US GDP 16T
http://data.worldbank.org/country/united-states

EU GDP 12T
http://data.worldbank.org/region/EMU

For the most part I agree with you Scotty. Everything in politics always ends up being about $. For Putin though, it's also about image & intimidation. He is a sophisticated version of Saddam with a velvet glove over the iron fist.
Now that I think on it, this Olympics was rather 1930's Nazi-ish. The pomp, the ceremony and the armed guards everywhere.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

Putin isn't Gorbachev, just like Reagan isn't Obama. Putin would spit in Gorbachev's eye. In his mind he's one of the reasons his motherland has suffered this great humiliation he envisions. Putin is going to try and re-establish some of the prestige the Soviet Union once had, and he's going to do it until somebody stops him. Listen to his words, he's going to "protect" ethnic Russians where they exist.

I think he'd like to try and destroy NATO, not so much with military might, but politically by demonstrating their impotency.

[shrug] It's not impotent so long as its member states are safe from invasion. Ukraine is not one.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Scotsman69]

Sorry pal...

The EU stats you quote are for the Euro zone. Which the UK and several other EU members have not joined. If the whole EU is considered, it is significantly larger than the USA in both GDP and population.

I've been googling for stats, but the EU ones are all in Euros, with no dollar equivalent that I've yet been able to unearth.

When I can find comparable EU/US stats, I'll post them. Meantime, considering the Eurozone stats you posted, the addition of the UK population alone (around 63m in 2012), and the UK GDP (around $2.4 trillion in 2012) certainly takes the EU population well over 400m. And the EU GDP very close to the US figure.

Other EU members which are outside the Eurozone: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Croatia, Lithuania, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Sweden.

If they are included, as they ought to be, the EU population is over 500m, and its GDP is larger than that of the USA.

My case regarding EU dependence on Russian gas is unchallenged, and unchallengable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_in_the_European_energy_sector

World bank GDP Stats (2012)

US GDP 16T
http://data.worldbank.org/country/united-states

EU GDP 12T
http://data.worldbank.org/region/EMU

For the most part I agree with you Scotty. Everything in politics always ends up being about $. For Putin though, it's also about image & intimidation. He is a sophisticated version of Saddam with a velvet glove over the iron fist.
Now that I think on it, this Olympics was rather 1930's Nazi-ish. The pomp, the ceremony and the armed guards everywhere.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Scotsman69]

This sort of ignorant comment

is precisely why so many folk really love your intelligence, perception, and wisdom, vette.

Yeah but in America we produce more with less people than you lazy bastards.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Scotsman69]

I'm not going to do your homework for you

and apparently logic isn't your strong point. You appear to believe that if you bluster loud and long enough, you will persuade folk. But this list, supplied by the CIA, shows that the USA ranks no 12 in the world in GDP per capita, with several European and Asian nations well ahead of it.

Here's a wee hint to you vette: check your facts BEFORE you open your big mouth.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/gdp_per_capita_2013_0.html

Did I say something that wasn't true? Are you going to maintain that Americans are not the most productive people in the world?