Six Ways America is Like a Third-World Country

[BotanyBoy]

God is perfect. We are not. He did not mess everything up. We did.

But he created us in his image.....if we are messed up, it is because he made us that way.

He wants us to be with Him, but we cannot because God cannot be with sin. He gave His son so you would not have to burn in hell...10% or not.

He wouldn't have to if he would just do his god thing and be done with the problems.

It is your selfish state in this world (as well as all other sinners who choose to turn away from God) that is the reason God sacrificed His Son in the first place.

Which if he hadn't screwed us up when he created us he wouldn't have to do, and since he is omnipotent he should have no problem fixing everything by simply willing it.

So your god is either a moron or impotent, either way worship of said idiot/weakling isn't something I would run around being proud of.

That kind of love.....I doubt any human could EVER understand.

Because it's irrational and unnecessary.....like the mom who drives her minivan full of kids into the local frozen body of water, because she loves them SOOOO much!!

Bunch of fucking nutters....

 

[eyer]

Then why does Julybigot use Leviticus to justify her bigotry?

For the very same reason you use it to exhibit yours...

 

[Sean Renaud]

For the very same reason you use it to exhibit yours...

Because the majority of Christians still find it semi-valid regardless of NT scripture.

 

[eyer]

Because the majority of Christians still find it semi-valid regardless of NT scripture.

What's truly hilarious is that you have absolutely no objective basis for posting that...

...yet you do so anyway despite its total meaninglessness.

Again...

...nice job, Renard.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

But he created us in his image.....if we are messed up, it is because he made us that way.

It’s actually worse than that, as he’s supposed to be not only omnipotent, but, also omniscient; meaning…..

He made us imperfect, on purpose.

In full knowledge that we would fail.

Just so that he could punish us for the failure that he himself created in the first place.

Making him some sort of sadist as well.

Woof!

 

[Sean Renaud]

What's truly hilarious is that you have absolutely no objective basis for posting that...

...yet you do so anyway despite its total meaninglessness.

Again...

...nice job, Renard.

Course I do. But fuck you it's Renaud you worthless peice of shit.

 

[StrangeLife]

Exactly. So why not work on fixing that?

I don't disagree Sean. Social inheritance is unbecoming of a 21st century country and stomping it out is a worthy long term goal. But as long as the people with the least resources keep getting more kids than they can afford to raise properly it wont get any better. You might say that part of the solution lies with those who have the problem.

Europe does this all day long, America is the only place that doesn't. And again our social mobility sucks because of things like this.

Europe is no utopia. So skinning people with taxes in order to pay for more bureaucracy does not seem to be the way to go way either.

As for your second point ghetto mommas are largely a myth.

Oh really? You don't watch a lot of Maury I take it...

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't disagree Sean. Social inheritance is unbecoming of a 21st century country and stomping it out is a worthy long term goal. But as long as the people with the least resources keep getting more kids than they can afford to raise properly it wont get any better. You might say that part of the solution lies with those who have the problem.

Some of it does. We could always start with easy access to good contraceptives and other birth control, better education as well. No more abstinance only.

But lets not pretend like even if those people started having just one kid a piece that they would really be that much better off. Because they wouldn't.

Europe is no utopia. So skinning people with taxes in order to pay for more bureaucracy does not seem to be the way to go way either.

Seems a step closer than we are. I find it interesting that conservatives are really the only people who talk about utopia and they nearly exclusively talk about it like it's a poor goal.

I also hear a lot about bureaucracy, which for the most part I could give a shit less about.

Oh really? You don't watch a lot of Maury I take it...

I've seen plenty of Maury. It's still largely a myth. I could find you examples of all sorts of things that doesn't make them true, within the context of "we should tell people do this, or avoid this."

 

[phrodeau]

What's truly hilarious is that you have absolutely no objective basis for posting that...

...yet you do so anyway despite its total meaninglessness.

Again...

...nice job, Renard.

In my state, it's against the law to buy or sell a car on a Sunday. It wasn't the Jews or the Muslims who made that law happen.

 

[StrangeLife]

I will say that as religions go, Christianity is not the worst choice if you gotta pick one. Compare the beginning of the Bible and the Koran for instance...

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.....

....blah blah blah blah.....

In the name of Allah,
Merciful to all,
Compassionate to each!
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds:
Merciful to all,
Compassionate to each!
Lord of the Day of Judgement.
It is You we worship, and upon You we call for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those upon whom Your grace abounds,
Not those upon whom anger falls,
Nor those who are lost...

....blah blah blah blah.....

The Bible starts out with an "objective description" of how the world was created - almost with an engineering approach - while the Koran takes off from page one yowling incoherently about how great Allah is and goes on and on for pages with little substance beyond kissing ass and sucking up to the deity in question.

So what it comes down to is this: Are you an engineer or an ass-kisser?






http://www.ncregister.com/images/uploads/cool_christian.jpg

 

[siobhansmut]

Read "failed states" by Noam chomsky!
<3

 

[BotanyBoy]

It’s actually worse than that, as he’s supposed to be not only omnipotent, but, also omniscient; meaning…..

He made us imperfect, on purpose.

In full knowledge that we would fail.

Just so that he could punish us for the failure that he himself created in the first place.

Making him some sort of sadist as well.

Woof!

MMmmmmmmhmmmmmmm

The Bible starts out with an "objective description" of how the world was created - almost with an engineering approach -

So what it comes down to is this: Are you an engineer or an ass-kisser?

Engineer LMFAO...how is that whole 6000 year old flat world bit working out? HAHAHAHAHA

I wonder how Christians will react if/when first contact happens.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071105215236/uncyclopedia/images/4/41/Fox_News_Jonestown_Web.jpg

 

[subdued_passion]

But isn't the welfare of a child the responsibility of the parents?

Becoming pregnant is a choice after all - a choice that comes with years of financial obligations. People do have the possibility to save up and prepare before tossing the rain-coat...

I think we're on a completely different page when we're talking about maternity benefits. I'm talking about (at the most basic) paid leave from work that you get so that you can stay with your new born babe and take care of/ bond with it during those initial days when they are most vulnerable.

Reading your post it sounds like you believe women ought to either ensure they have collected a lot of vacation days or money before they choose to get pregnant.

 

[subdued_passion]

I think it is one in the same. Knowing that breaking certain laws (rules) would lead to prison made me make choices where that would not be an option.

No it's not. You were raised to believe that prison is a punishment for your earthly offences. You feared prisons because you were taught to, but, what if your life had been the kind where prison was not the worse thing that could happen to you? In fact prison may even be a vacation for some, a place where at best you get to play the boss or at worse you get a free meal and a bed.

In essence there is a right/wrong in society. For those who live a life where rights/wrongs matter, then choices are made accordingly. So yes, prison is for those who choose to break the law.

Right and wrong in society is seen in terms of what benefits society and what hurts it. So I ask you again, how do you think society benefits from imprisoning those that don't follow the rules.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Europe is no utopia.

But it is two or three steps nearer to it than we are.

 

[StrangeLife]

I think we're on a completely different page when we're talking about maternity benefits. I'm talking about (at the most basic) paid leave from work that you get so that you can stay with your new born babe and take care of/ bond with it during those initial days when they are most vulnerable.

Reading your post it sounds like you believe women ought to either ensure they have collected a lot of vacation days or money before they choose to get pregnant.

You misunderstand me Passion. It's not to underestimate the importance of mother/child contact or that I don't wan't mothers (or I should say "parents", since I consider the dad/child contact equally important) to have all the time they need with their children.

But I still don't see how this is something an employer or other people with no connection to the child in question must pay for. I would have to work for free in order to support some person I don't know in having a child and get paid to spend to spend time with it - how is that fair? What do I get out of it?

 

[julybaby04]

No it's not. You were raised to believe that prison is a punishment for your earthly offences. You feared prisons because you were taught to, but, what if your life had been the kind where prison was not the worse thing that could happen to you? In fact prison may even be a vacation for some, a place where at best you get to play the boss or at worse you get a free meal and a bed.




Right and wrong in society is seen in terms of what benefits society and what hurts it. So I ask you again, how do you think society benefits from imprisoning those that don't follow the rules.

I think society benefits in that those who don't follow the rules are kept away from those who choose to follow the rules.

For example, if someone murdered a person and was just told to not do that again, those who lived around that person would live in fear simply because the murderer chooses to kill people (for whatever reason).

Life should not be about living in fear of other people. Rules make a way for people to live peacefully. I choose to live peacefully (no matter if it was my upbringing or not), and for those who choose to break the law, their right to live among those who choose peace is removed.

As far as prison being a vacation, I would say that would be a major breakdown in the family system. This can be a generational thing but at some point, it has to stop being "ok" to keep doing things that break the law.

I think the fear in prisons can be taught if those who are prisons now, actually have to serve their time. I think if "deals" were not made and sentences lessened, people would fear prisons more and they would not be seen as vacations.

Also, I read in hear things about differing sentences for drugs and such. Granted, I have never been a part of that climate, but I view it as all the same. If it is illegal and someone takes part, then they are guilty of breaking the law....pretty simple.

 

[subdued_passion]

You misunderstand me Passion. It's not to underestimate the importance of mother/child contact or that I don't wan't mothers (or I should say "parents", since I consider the dad/child contact equally important) to have all the time they need with their children.

But I still don't see how this is something an employer or other people with no connection to the child in question must pay for. I would have to work for free in order to support some person I don't know in having a child and get paid to spend to spend time with it - how is that fair? What do I get out of it?

In an evolutionary context, perhaps.

I suppose it all boils down to what according to you is the purpose of society? Is it to serve the needs of man of to serve individuals.

The whole purpose of our existence (that anyone can claim with certainty) is to perpetuate our species.


I fear we're stuck in a circle.

 

[subdued_passion]

I think society benefits in that those who don't follow the rules are kept away from those who choose to follow the rules.

For example, if someone murdered a person and was just told to not do that again, those who lived around that person would live in fear simply because the murderer chooses to kill people (for whatever reason).

Life should not be about living in fear of other people. Rules make a way for people to live peacefully. I choose to live peacefully (no matter if it was my upbringing or not), and for those who choose to break the law, their right to live among those who choose peace is removed.

But isn't it a waste of a resource? And further waste of resources to guard and maintain those prisons and house those prisoners?

Surely there must be a better way to deal with the rule breakers than segregation.

Make no mistake I'm not saying we're supposed to ignore criminal behaviour (behaviour that has an adverse effect on society) but I am questioning the effectiveness of the prison system.

As far as prison being a vacation, I would say that would be a major breakdown in the family system. This can be a generational thing but at some point, it has to stop being "ok" to keep doing things that break the law.

I think the fear in prisons can be taught if those who are prisons now, actually have to serve their time. I think if "deals" were not made and sentences lessened, people would fear prisons more and they would not be seen as vacations.

Also, I read in hear things about differing sentences for drugs and such. Granted, I have never been a part of that climate, but I view it as all the same. If it is illegal and someone takes part, then they are guilty of breaking the law....pretty simple.

You misunderstand, For some people prison is a vacation because life on the streets is far worse for them. You speak about a breakdown in the family system and is probably close to the truth. But since everyone isn't guaranteed a family that instills the proper values should we just abandon those individuals who didn't have the same benefit as you to a life of doom and despair?

 

[Bad_Doggie]

So what it comes down to is this: Are you an engineer or an ass-kisser?

What it “comes down to” is a smug smile as you claim; my book of illogical mumbo jumbo is better than your book of illogical mumbo jumbo.

Rather than pointing out that they are both illogical mumbo jumbo with the same origin, and both of which are inherently and fundamentally immoral.

Woof!

 

[StrangeLife]

I suppose it all boils down to what according to you is the purpose of society? Is it to serve the needs of man of to serve individuals.

We band together in societies (as do many animals) in order to increase efficiency through specialization. And to keep each other safe and take care of each other - I totally get that.

But getting pregnant when you know in advance that you can't afford it is a deliberate selfish act of exploitation. Even if you don't feel sorry for the fact that my kids would see less of me because I would have to work extra in order to pay for it, surely you must recognize that the money would be taken from people who have fallen on hard times by no fault of their own?

"Sorry sir - alas we don't have funds to help you pay for your chemo because Lashonda who is a single mom to four kids just got pregnant again..."

The whole purpose of our existence (that anyone can claim with certainty) is to perpetuate our species.

I strongly disagree with you there Passion.

We have evolved to a state that allow us - as the only known species - to define our own purpose and influence our fate. You are free to choose to spend your life exploring, collecting experiences, gaining knowledge and insight, gathering wealth, advancing technology, making the world a better place... or maybe raising a family. It's all about choices.

I fear we're stuck in a circle.

You might want to check out BioShock Infinite, if you haven't already...

 

[julybaby04]

But isn't it a waste of a resource? And further waste of resources to guard and maintain those prisons and house those prisoners?

Surely there must be a better way to deal with the rule breakers than segregation.

Make no mistake I'm not saying we're supposed to ignore criminal behaviour (behaviour that has an adverse effect on society) but I am questioning the effectiveness of the prison system.


So what would you suggest for these people who knowingly choose to break the law?

You misunderstand, For some people prison is a vacation because life on the streets is far worse for them. You speak about a breakdown in the family system and is probably close to the truth. But since everyone isn't guaranteed a family that instills the proper values should we just abandon those individuals who didn't have the same benefit as you to a life of doom and despair?

Again, what would you suggest to deal with those who didn't have a family support system? In this day and age, there are programs for everything and everyone. Yet, those who choose to break the law continue to do so.

At what point do those who refuse to obey the law, just not get to be a part of society?

As far as it costing money to house them.....it will cost one way or another. It could cost in the loss of life, the loss of items that law abiding citizens work for, the loss of safety, the loss of feeling free to live a law abiding life.