how to talk submission in a vanilla world

[laurasunshinegal]

i was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how to talk about submission with those who... well, don't understand it!

i think that there definitely girls out there who don't know that there's a thing called Dominance/submission, but these girls feel it in the air. maybe they are from a family with traditional values. maybe they feel comforted by having someone else in control. maybe they have just heard about the (fairly awful) 50 shades books and felt a tug deep inside that couldn't be explained.

i am wondering how to get that conversation started. i grew up in a traditional home, and sliding into a marriage where i am submissive to my husband was a wonderful opportunity to grow into what i am meant for. i do know a few other girls who, i think, are unhappy living in a world of equality, but they don't know that this other world of dignified submission exists.

thoughts? feel free to respond here, or via PM or YIM. undignified messages will almost certainly get no response! ()

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm not really sure... I mean, you wrote about girls who may be uncomfortable in a world of equality, but what does that mean, exactly? I may be submissive in my relationships, but I'm still an equal to my partner - opposite sides of the same coin, one might say.

And how does one define "dignified submission"? If it looks similar to a "traditional female role" similar to what you described for yourself (growing up in a very traditional family, with traditionally defined roles, marrying into a traditional head of household type marriage, etc)... why would one NEED to bring up D/s? Couldn't these women benefit from a network of supportive friends who simply appreciate and acknowledge their interest in a more "old fashioned" lifestyle?

What would the benefit be, of introducing these women to BDSM and submission?

 

[Stella_Omega]

i was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how to talk about submission with those who... well, don't understand it!

i think that there definitely girls out there who don't know that there's a thing called Dominance/submission, but these girls feel it in the air. maybe they are from a family with traditional values. maybe they feel comforted by having someone else in control. maybe they have just heard about the (fairly awful) 50 shades books and felt a tug deep inside that couldn't be explained.

i am wondering how to get that conversation started. i grew up in a traditional home, and sliding into a marriage where i am submissive to my husband was a wonderful opportunity to grow into what i am meant for. i do know a few other girls who, i think, are unhappy living in a world of equality, but they don't know that this other world of dignified submission exists.

thoughts? feel free to respond here, or via PM or YIM. undignified messages will almost certainly get no response! ()

Don't, is my advice. Not unless someone really genuinely asks. Just like other people's religious beliefs, other women's egalitarian relationships are not yours to meddle in.

The urge to testify to your happy happiness is understandable-- but resist.

 

[KoPilot]

Ew.

Equality and ickybad feminism and stuff is what made it possible for submission to be a choice here in the west, rather than a given, an expectation, and part of law. Non-consensual D/s isn't BDSM-- it's institutional violence.

I've made the choice to be submissive in my relationship, and it was a good choice. I'm glad that I arrived at the understanding in the way that I did: a lot of reflection and contemplation, instead of being told that it was my lot in life because I was born with a certain arrangement of organs. (Which, if I have my way, won't be there in a few years anyways.)

Like Stella said, there's no point in gushing or trying to goad your friends into agreeing with you. It's kind of creepy and self-serving. If they are submissive (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being vanilla or, god forbid, dominant) then let them come to that understanding on their own terms.

 

[CutieMouse]

From my perspective, it doesn't have anything necessarily to do with submission, per say.

I made the choice to take the less valued path (homemaker, mother, etc) long before I made the choice to be submissive. And society did (does) tend to view traditional female roles (wife, mother, homemaker) as a lesser position, with an attached degree of inequality.

Through BDSM (especially those who view it from a service perspective), we often eroticize "traditional" female roles - which are thankfully now an option, rather than an obligation. However, that does not mean it's an easy path to choose - kink-influenced, or not.

Although I wouldn't necessarily encourage anyone to bring up kink or BDSM, because it may or may not be their path, I see nothing wrong with voicing support for someone's genuine desire to practice a lifestyle that makes them happy - including words of encouragement to women who may not feel valued by society, for choosing a more "traditional" relationship dynamic.

 

[Deacon13]

Good advice and words by all three previous posters.

 

[laurasunshinegal]

while i realize in retrospect that i did not work my original post in the best way, i want to thank the 3 posters for sharing their perspectives!

 

[MeekMe]

From my perspective, it doesn't have anything necessarily to do with submission, per say.

I made the choice to take the less valued path (homemaker, mother, etc) long before I made the choice to be submissive. And society did (does) tend to view traditional female roles (wife, mother, homemaker) as a lesser position, with an attached degree of inequality.

Through BDSM (especially those who view it from a service perspective), we often eroticize "traditional" female roles - which are thankfully now an option, rather than an obligation. However, that does not mean it's an easy path to choose - kink-influenced, or not.

Although I wouldn't necessarily encourage anyone to bring up kink or BDSM, because it may or may not be their path, I see nothing wrong with voicing support for someone's genuine desire to practice a lifestyle that makes them happy - including words of encouragement to women who may not feel valued by society, for choosing a more "traditional" relationship dynamic.

This makes me feel better ^_^ I have always wanted the traditional role. I recently read some comments that made light of this decision and it feels like if you are "just a housewife" you're not doing enough. So many comments about how lazy this role is. Like if you're not superwoman and holding down a full time job, taking care of 3 kids and have dinner on the table every night, you're just lazy. I have no intention of being lazy.

As for the OP, I think that the others are right. Don't bring it up. I feel it's better left to the individual to figure this stuff out for themselves. If someone had come to me and said "Hey, you look unhappy being treated equally! Let me tell you about..." I would have been creeped out. Not to mention, you possibly out yourself to others. Maybe you're ok with that part, but your friends/family/acquaintances may not be ok with knowing this about you.

 

[KoPilot]

Keep in mind too that everyone's relationship with domesticity isn't necessarily straightforward either.

Mine is fraught with mixed feelings. It's not that I necessarily want to be domestic, it's just that I don't see myself being able to hold down a 9-5 + commute even if I wanted due to mental and bodily health complications. It's also that my diet necessitates that I prepare a lot of my own food because I can't eat processed stuff or go to most kinds of restaurants all that often. So personally, I don't struggle with the "housewife = lazy, lesser", but rather the narrative that frames me as lazy and lesser for letting my health get the "better" of me. Though the gender stuff is there, and I have complicated feelings in regards to being of a nonbinary gender and domestic, those things don't weigh on me as much.

I think if someone looked at the superficial parts of my relationship and make an assessment about the presence of kink or submission or traditionalism or lack thereof in my life and tried to start a conversation about it, I would be immensely turned off, even if on some level we were on the same page. Just the fact that I come at this from an angle that no one would be able to ascertain without me divulging the details makes me very hesitant to talk about this with anyone who doesn't know kink and doesn't know my circumstances.

So it's like, if someone came up to me and said "Wow, what a good sub! You work from home, do all the cooking and organizing..." It would be like "No... those things have nothing to do with my relationship and are 100% about me."

ETA: CM is on the right track. If someone opens up to you about doing X sort of relationship in a Y sort of world, just be there to let them vent or whatever. Use the words that they're using, because "BDSM" might be the furthest thing from what they feel they're doing even though it looks obvious to you. etc.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Why does the back of my mind equate your question with a "new-born" Christian who just can't wait to educate all his/her friends with the wonders of that particular brand of religion?

 

[WishItsTrue_TG]

i was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how to talk about submission with those who... well, don't understand it!

"i am wondering how to get that conversation started. i grew up in a traditional home, and sliding into a marriage where i am submissive to my husband was a wonderful opportunity to grow into what i am meant for. i do know a few other girls who, i think, are unhappy living in a world of equality, but they don't know that this other world of dignified submission exists."

If you're with a group of close, good friends who are secure enough with each other to openly discuss your feelings, I see no reason not to share that you've thought about being submissive. That would be said a person sharing something about herself. That's what such groups of close friends are for! To be intimate.

But if it said as someone trying to convert the masses to your point of view.....no go.

One is a person being open and honest, with faith in your relationship with your friends. The other is..............

 

[pink_ivory]

I guess I empathize with the concept that an open discussion about preferences amongst a tight-knit group of girlfriends would be nice. However, being from a very traditional background as well, I honestly don't think that your everyday gal-pals are going to fully understand the choice of submission. For many women outside that sexual lifestyle, they consider the concept of submission as a step backward for women's rights, believe it is demeaning and is used to objectify you as a thing and not a beloved person, etc.

I guess if you're really, really determined to explain submission to your girlfriends, however, you could just go with the approach that it's a gift. In traditional families, virginity is usually a big deal (at least it was in mine)-- you're supposed to save yourself til marriage, give your husband the incredible untouched gift of yourself, etc. (Honestly it's baffles my mind how women support feminist movements and the whole virginity thing at the same time but that's another conversation). The point is, someone's virginity is typically viewed as something special-- a gift that they give away to someone who they love. In a way, you could liken submission to this sort of gift; it's the gift of yourself to someone you love. The only difference is virginity is a one-time gift and submission is a gift you keep giving... and giving yourself over to someone else entirely is therefore fulfilling to you.

Your friends may still not quite get it, but maybe that's a more 'vanilla' way I'd explain it.

 

[subwannabe]

Do you actually have a purpose in mind as to why you want to talk with someone about it? Is there an end game that you are looking for, or are you just interested in being a good samaritan and expanding the worlds of some that you feel could benefit from it?

 

[MichaelWest]

Perhaps I can share the perspective of the non-submissive partner in things. While I rarely shy from brutal honesty, in my vocabulary with those who do not share my particular interests I tend to describe submission as vulnerability, dominance as trust; in other words, the dynamic is one in which one party seeks to be vulnerable and the other is trusted in that moment. Notions of dominance and submission become metaphor for opening oneself to another without necessity to discuss the mechanics because submission can be more than handcuffs and boot licking and all the others acts at play.