Expanded War In Syria

[Recidiva]

If we are going to step deeper into this mess, I think it should be another one of those "lead from behind" moments. Syria is a former French mandate and Ottoman territory. Turkey has large and capable military establishment and has been abetting the opposition forces from Day 1. Apparently the British are also hankering for another crack at the Middle East. So let this be mostly an Anglo-Franco-Turkish intervention and post-war occupation; we can provide intel, logistics, and throw in Tomahawks and PGMs, and diplomatic cheer-leading at NATO and the UN. We will ask the Germans to shut up and cooperate in NATO, since the issue now involves..ahem...poison gas and they would not want to be seen as essentially protecting a regime that gasses its own people (would they?). Russia will scream and yell but its hand is played out.

I'm fine with channeling resources to those willing to put in their blood, if not all their treasure.

But which opposition group do you back at this point? And are you willing to wipe out all the other ones that oppose that one?

 

[richard_daily]

I don't think I buy that America wants the middle east destabilized, I'd have to hear that argument.

Yes, the main reason why Syria isn't scoured is Russia, the same reason that North Korea isn't a parking lot is because of China.

Afghanistan...has...a lot...of resources? Now we know that due to surveys, we didn't know that before we went to war. Afghanistan was turned into a Parking lot because they'd pissed off Russia and China didn't care and they're so resource poor that they couldn't bribe their way out of it.

People with lots of market stable resources (Saudia Arabia) buy weapons and faux good will and relations with them.

The US wants a destabilized middle east because otherwise, with their accumulated wealth, they become a world superpower, especially if they decide to band together and kick out israel. It's no accident that israel was put where it was. They could have chopped off a piece of Poland or Germany after WW2, but then, we'd have a superpower of OPEC nations to contend with.

Afghanistan is a transit hub... and the vast majority of the world's heroin and opium comes from there. Russia wanted to invade in the 70s because of those two things, just like we wanted to invade there. However, no one has been able to ever hold Afghanistan... not in modern history. You learn from the mistakes of others, if you're a good leader. However, a lot of the conflict was about giving no-bid contracts, so even if we lost, the select few still won.

Remember the pallets of cash that just disappeared?

3/4 of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia... yet we didn't threaten them.

It's all a smoke and mirrors game.

 

[richard_daily]

Same as it always has been, the military. The US loves to throw the word democracy around, but, when push comes to shove, they're more comfortable dealing with dictators and military juntas.

I'm aware of that... but pedobear had no clue.

 

[Sean]

I'm aware of that... but pedobear had no clue.

Shocker.

 

[koalabear]

I'm aware of that... but pedobear had no clue.

Where's your AV with the lil boy sitting on your lap, lil fag chihuahua?

 

[richard_daily]

Shocker.

I know, right?

 

[Recidiva]

The US wants a destabilized middle east because otherwise, with their accumulated wealth, they become a world superpower, especially if they decide to band together and kick out israel. It's no accident that israel was put where it was. They could have chopped off a piece of Poland or Germany after WW2, but then, we'd have a superpower of OPEC nations to contend with.

Afghanistan is a transit hub... and the vast majority of the world's heroin and opium comes from there. Russia wanted to invade in the 70s because of those two things, just like we wanted to invade there. However, no one has been able to ever hold Afghanistan... not in modern history. You learn from the mistakes of others, if you're a good leader. However, a lot of the conflict was about giving no-bid contracts, so even if we lost, the select few still won.

Remember the pallets of cash that just disappeared?

3/4 of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia... yet we didn't threaten them.

It's all a smoke and mirrors game.

This sounds kinda conspiracy theorist to me. America's overt actions have been to attempt to stabilize peace in the region and are considered one of the only groups with the heft and motive to do so. I don't buy it.

I could hold Afghanistan in Risk. Just never Kamchatka. *shakes fist at Kamchatka*

The terrorists from Saudia Arabia were handpicked by a guy who hated Saudi Arabia. That doesn't seem like a kinda obvious setup for you, provoke the US and Saudi Arabia to kill each other?

 

[Recidiva]

Same as it always has been, the military. The US loves to throw the word democracy around, but, when push comes to shove, they're more comfortable dealing with dictators and military juntas.

I think we're on good terms with England and you guys have crazy people that yell and that are very entertaining and a grumpy old lady in weird hats.

But we still are not trying to replace you with dictators or juntas.

 

[richard_daily]

This sounds kinda conspiracy theorist to me. America's overt actions have been to attempt to stabilize peace in the region and are considered one of the only groups with the heft and motive to do so. I don't buy it.

I could hold Afghanistan in Risk. Just never Kamchatka. *shakes fist at Kamchatka*

The terrorists from Saudia Arabia were handpicked by a guy who hated Saudi Arabia. That doesn't seem like a kinda obvious setup for you, provoke the US and Saudi Arabia to kill each other?

The US hasn't been able broker a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestine in 30 years. You think that we're really expending effort there?

So since 3/4 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, we should instead invade Iraq?

Come on... that makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[Recidiva]

The US hasn't been able broker a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestine in 30 years. You think that we're really expending effort there?

So since 3/4 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, we should instead invade Iraq?

Come on... that makes absolutely zero sense.

So that is America's fault instead of theirs? Really? Wow. We are super duper powerful to cause a conflict going back thousands of years, before our country even existed.

I'm not saying we should have moved on Iraq. I'm also saying we shouldn't have moved on Saudi Arabia.

 

[richard_daily]

So that is America's fault instead of theirs? Really? Wow. We are super duper powerful to cause a conflict going back thousands of years, before our country even existed.

I'm not saying we should have moved on Iraq. I'm also saying we shouldn't have moved on Saudi Arabia.

And yet, at the end of WW2, we were the ones that placed a Jewish state right in the middle of a hotly contested religious zone.

We fanned those flames of conflict, either by accident, or on purpose... although I happen to believe it was the latter.

The entire problem could have been easily averted by placing Israel in Germany. So why didn't that happen? If anyone owed it to the Jewish people, it was Germany.

 

[Recidiva]

And yet, at the end of WW2, we were the ones that placed a Jewish state right in the middle of a hotly contested religious zone.

We fanned those flames of conflict, either by accident, or on purpose... although I happen to believe it was the latter.

The entire problem could have been easily averted by placing Israel in Germany. So why didn't that happen?

Yes, on hindsight it was a bad idea. It was a romantic idea to give a land to people who had been nearly slaughtered, and also rub our enemies' nose in the fact that we could.

It wasn't just us, it was in fact a World War and we didn't even join in until some Japan crossed another line in a sand, much less ephemeral than this one.

Well, you should probably read some holy books, I'll wait. Moses did not part the Danube.

 

[koalabear]

And yet, at the end of WW2, we were the ones that placed a Jewish state right in the middle of a hotly contested religious zone.

We fanned those flames of conflict, either by accident, or on purpose... although I happen to believe it was the latter.

The entire problem could have been easily averted by placing Israel in Germany. So why didn't that happen? If anyone owed it to the Jewish people, it was Germany.

You suppose Germany wasn't the Jewish homeland, stupid lil fag chihuahua.

 

[unregistered]

 

[richard_daily]

Yes, on hindsight it was a bad idea. It was a romantic idea to give a land to people who had been nearly slaughtered, and also rub our enemies' nose in the fact that we could.

It wasn't just us, it was in fact a World War and we didn't even join in until some Japan crossed another line in a sand, much less ephemeral than this one.

Well, you should probably read some holy books, I'll wait. Moses did not part the Danube.

But it didn't rub Germany's nose in it, it rubbed the entire middle east's nose in it, many of who fought with the allies in WW2.

 

[koalabear]

Obama should have kept his mouth shut and not drawn the line. We have no strategic interest in the outcome of their civil war. I suspect the outcome, even if Assad us deposed, will result in the very same kind of oppression and chaos that have been the case before both he and his father came to power. With Hagel making massive cuts in our military and the fact that we are broke, our military mission simply must be diminished. I think Obama should make his case to the American people and authorization from Congress.

Obama's only legal basis for action is in the Constitution, not the international community. This is about saving Obama's face, not about our national interests. What happens after the bombing? Does he know?

Al Qaeda gets the gas.

 

[richard_daily]

You suppose Germany wasn't the Jewish homeland, stupid lil fag chihuahua.

So how much land are we giving back to the American Indians then?

 

[koalabear]

So how much land are we giving back to the American Indians then?

All they want.

 

[Recidiva]

Obama should have kept his mouth shut and not drawn the line. We have no strategic interest in the outcome of their civil war. I suspect the outcome, even if Assad us deposed, will result in the very same kind of oppression and chaos that have been the case before both he and his father came to power. With Hagel making massive cuts in our military and the fact that we are broke, our military mission simply must be diminished. I think Obama should make his case to the American people and authorization from Congress.

Obama's only legal basis for action is in the Constitution, not the international community. This is about saving Obama's face, not about our national interests. What happens after the bombing? Does he know?

I think it was deliberate and I'm inclined to agree with you on that.

I think we do have a humanitarian interest. Strategic is fluid. We went into Iraq and although some people had visions of oil plums dancing in their heads, I know the reality...conquered nations are not usually prone to welcome their conquerors. We'd lose strategic ground there. Same with Afghanistan. Regardless of the ultimate economic outcome (which is always, America loses blood and treasure and everybody hates us for it) there is a humanitarian and idealistic concern.

I think if we just say "Look, I know we said the chemical weapons thing, but on further revision of the figures, we can't afford it."

That'd be great. Nobody would find fault with that, I'm sure.

I don't know and I don't think anybody could possibly know. I would rather not get involved but if we are involved, I would prefer we handled it...not like idiots.

 

[richard_daily]

All they want.

Let's start with your house.

 

[koalabear]

Let's start with your house.

I already have a sign in the yard, no takers yet lil fag chihuahua.

 

[richard_daily]

I already have a sign in the yard, no takers yet lil fag chihuahua.

That's because no one wants to live in a trailer park.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Recidiva]

But it didn't rub Germany's nose in it, it rubbed the entire middle east's nose in it, many of who fought with the allies in WW2.

I believe my point would be that the placement of Israel makes sense and America didn't make the decision alone, nor did we go to war to create Israel and then have to defend it for however long.

The reality is that we joined with the Allies, not the Axis. We fought for idealistic and humanitarian reasons (eventually) and I don't think the conspiracy theories that America is an evil villain with crushed bodies in one hand and an oil barrel in the other is fair.

We didn't say "Hey, Germany and Japan seem to be kicking ass, let's get in on that."

 

[Recidiva]

So how much land are we giving back to the American Indians then?

No defense there, that whole thing was bullshit. That was evil.

Giving land back is problematic now because there are extant deeds.

We should give them back Yosemite and kick Curry Company the hell out. I mean, wait until the fire's out, but yeah.