FAWC You, Two!

[sr71plt]

What, put non-erotic in the tags and lose readers who think a good story needs sex?

Never fear. The readers don't see the tags until after they've read the story--and then only if they read to the end and looked around on the last page.

 

[NaokoSmith]

What, put non-erotic in the tags and lose readers who think a good story needs sex?

I think I personally would have enjoyed the story even more if I'd realised there wasn't going to suddenly be sex in the park, LOL. However I did have a similar dilemma when I wrote FAWC1 in which it gradually becomes apparent that the central characters are older people. That gradual realisation is part of the story so I decided not to tag the story 'mature' even though it is actually a Mature story.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Spilling the Seed

LOL, my turn, my turn!

Naoko's tale stood out, too.

I looked at it, blinked my eyes a few times; its truly a modern art masterpiece. The second time in my life I had that experience.

Well, I am kinda taken aback by JBJ’s kind words. He may just be teasing me! however I am fond of my story myself so I shall say: Thank you so much! and take his compliment for real.

Dampy was kind too about the integrating of my basket ingredients (Anonymous comment #2). I was touched and gladdened as I also felt I’d integrated these well. Not that it was difficult. I had the jammiest basket imaginable. I mean, any erotica writer worth their salt is always writing about recklessness, food, color and acts which are often disapprovingly labelled obnoxious.

I had a bit of a ‘ho hum’ about color, of course, because I wanted to spell it colour but I realised that would immediately reveal that I was writing the story. I thought it would be obvious anyway – and it was to those who know me on the board, LOL. Still, I’m glad I gave people the chance to mistake my writing – yet again! – for Pilot’s.

My story came quite a long way last. It also had fewest votes – only 5 by the end of voting. This is not unusual for my work. One of my stories in a normally high-voting category has been very slow to collect votes at all, and they are: eight 5s, one 4 and a 1! My stories are a love ‘em or hate ‘em thing and often score mid-range because of this. I have had comments on my earlier writing that it’s hard to get into but worth the effort. I think too that people may have skipped reading my story, seeing it had a low score. They inevitably looked to read higher scoring stories ahead of mine.

My FAWC1 story was a break with my usual romantic fantasy genre: a straight off the bat hetero romance with a twist in it. I deliberately wrote it hard and tight in style. For FAWC2 I went back to fantasy and romance and I think because I was rushing the writing, I fell back into some writing errors I’ve always been prone to: run-on sentences and a florid style. I really love my story however when I read some of the ones which had been put into the competition I gulped a bit – there was such a high standard of writing this time round.

When I saw food I thought of the Persephone/Hades myth and the pomegranate seeds. I realise now that you probably do need a classical background to appreciate my story, LOL. The original Persephone myth is of a young innocent maiden who is kidnapped by Hades and carried off to the dark underworld, then consigned to return there for six months of the year because while there she ate six pomegranate seeds. When I watched the film Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief, I was delighted to see a young African-American actress chosen for Persephone – then annoyed to find she had been re-characterised as a slut in cleavage-clenching basque (yah, in a children's film!) who cheats on Hades all the time with lots of lovers. I had wanted to re-write her for a while and now I had the perfect opportunity.

Food: Maybe one of my ‘tell’s is that I love to do twists in the tale and I could see the germ of an idea in ‘seed’. I changed the seed from pomegranate seeds to Hades’ seed – his sperm; I made Hades and Zeus collude to save Persephone from embarrassment and pretend that they thought she meant pomegranate seeds. So then I had the opportunity to make six sexy moments in the story: six times Persephone could get the seed from Hades. When I write for FAWC, I have to find more inventive ways of doing the sex scenes as the minute a unicorn insists that the centaur wears a condom, people go: Hey! It’s a Naoko Smith! Guys, I’ve found a Naoko story! Six moments of non-penetrative more inventive sex seemed like both a way to evade that, and to write something sexy and fun. (I’m glad one commentator asked for more sexy detail and I might take the story down for an edit and provide it.)

Food also figured in my story as the harvest, the crops which Persephone’s mother Demeter and she were responsible for growing.

Color. I gave Persephone vividly colourful robes and splashed lots of colour round wherever I could: flowers appearing in the desert, alpine meadow. I contrasted Persephone (NB a woman of colour) with Hades. He was a graphic figure: black with slashes of red and a white face. Hell too was a place that was dark in contrast to the colours and sunshine habitual to Persephone.

Recklessness. Here I put in another twist. It seems that Hades is reckless, he kidnaps this delicate maiden – daughter to the most powerful of the Gods. However I gradually revealed that it was the ordinarily demure Persephone who had suddenly given way to a reckless impulse. She flirted with someone she knew was a darker, more dangerous and more exciting person than the demigods and satyrs she was accustomed to partying with. It’s their mutual recognition of a reckless, or perhaps we can call it playful, streak in each other that leads the two of them into a serious affair.

Obnoxious. For many people in the sunlit realms, sex is a depraved, dark and dirty activity which ought not to be publicly discussed for fear of frightening the horses, LOL. But we are usually secretly fascinated as much as we are repelled by acts of sex which are not clinically aimed at conception. So although for many Hades is an obnoxious bad boy, I suggested that for Persephone he offers a chance to play down and dirty and FUN! I suggested that it’s the superficial and selfish Satyrs who are really obnoxious, with their wish to penetrate and get their moment of ecstasy as quickly as they can. Persephone liked to play. I wrote too about a Hell that was obnoxious and noxious (smelly), LOL.

I like my story; it feels like a little gem on a pinky ring. Whereas most of my stories are bloody long chains that go on and on and on! LOL. Now that it’s known to be written by me, so presumably people who like my style are reading it, it has picked up an extra vote – a 4!

I’m not sure how chain stories exactly work but while doing FAWC2 I discovered there is a whole Greek Gods set! Are you allowed to just contribute to that? Perhaps I can do a nice little number on Paris, the apple and the three Goddesses ... (Where will he put it?)

 

[damppanties]

ColorI gave Persephone vividly colourful robes and splashed lots of colour round wherever I could: flowers appearing in the desert, alpine meadow. I contrasted Persephone (NB a woman of colour) with Hades. He was a graphic figure: black with slashes of red and a white face. Hell too was a place that was dark in contrast to the colours and sunshine habitual to Persephone.

I didn't realize Persephone was a non-white woman. Nor did I feel the colors with Hades. The colors aspect from what I could determine were Persephone's robes.

Hmm. I might have to go back and re-read.

Obnoxious. For many people in the sunlit realms, sex is a depraved, dark and dirty activity which ought not to be publicly discussed for fear of frightening the horses, LOL. But we are usually secretly fascinated as much as we are repelled by acts of sex which are not clinically aimed at conception. So although for many Hades is an obnoxious bad boy, I suggested that for Persephone he offers a chance to play down and dirty and FUN! I suggested that it’s the superficial and selfish Satyrs who are really obnoxious, with their wish to penetrate and get their moment of ecstasy as quickly as they can. Persephone liked to play. I wrote too about a Hell that was obnoxious and noxious (smelly), LOL.

And I had an entirely different read on obnoxious too. I thought Zeus' wives were the most obnoxious things ever.

 

[NaokoSmith]

The Golden Ring

This was my favourite story and these were my original quickly dashed off comments:

The background world of Indie Wrestling is very well depicted. There’s a great human pull in too, with the way the people who are working in it are struggling. That sense of being good at the art, and pushed out by people who look shiny on tv cameras; not being bitter about it but wishing it were a meritocratic world is lightly yet firmly sketched. Erica is a fab character. Her physical strength and fitness are depicted as so sexy. The way she even struggles to get a match is another human bit of realism.

LOL, I had to think a bit about ‘affectation’. Then I realised that it’s so much part of the wrestling world that one commentator even thought you didn’t use it. The way you twisted ‘envy’ and made a storyline out of it that says, Make the best of what you have, while continuing to strive for better, was absolutely brilliant.

(You might enjoy Roland Barthes’ famous essay on the semiotics of wrestling, if you haven’t read it already.)

Aside from the lousy typos, this was a top dollar story and very very sexy.

No that was not a tear, just a bit of dust in my eye at the end. I live in a very dusty house, y’know cuz I am a slut .

Comments on further consideration:
I love this story because it has human interest: central character who is not getting younger and is trying to come to terms with the possibility that he is mediocre although he operates in a world of glamour and sex appeal.
- It has dynamic movement: he is overcoming his envy.
- It has a satisfying resolution with a moral message: He accepts that he will not make it BIG, and yet he gets a small satisfying reward because he has made clear his lack of satisfaction with the small and the lack of progress in his career.
- It has a moment when we are invited to see something clearly. BIG success doesn't always come because of merit, sometimes it's because of something more superficial. To make it BIG in the wrestling world you have to be televisually appealing, not good at wrestling.

(I kinda would have liked a bit more maybe on the threesome sex, la la la, y'know just as uh, a bit of background information on uh, caravans. )

ETA: this is a crap translation of Barthes's essay. Maybe I can find a better one somewhere when I am back from Über Stepford.

 

[NaokoSmith]

And I had an entirely different read on obnoxious too. I thought Zeus' wives were the most obnoxious things ever.

Ha ha ha! they are hilarious, aren't they? Hera is really like that. She is always being described as 'ox-eyed' in The Iliad.

Your turn.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Virtuoso

Good job. Well worked basket ingredients and excellent background on both music and Chinese culture. This is well depicted ‘Tiger Mom’ territory.

The relationship between the heroine and her new lover was pleasurably depicted. That she had finally found someone who didn’t know her fame yet could appreciate her music because he enjoys more contemporary music was a nice touch. The balance and inter-play between their two characters was great too.

The transfer of the violin pattern to her back was so sensuous and sexy.

The first page was a bit clunky, and the second made up for that.

 

[damppanties]

Your turn.

*shivers*

Edit: What is 'Tiger Mom' category?

 

[NaokoSmith]

TXTallTales - I am so sorry I didn't quite manage to read your story. I kinda feel you have a devoted fan base so you don't need my feedback? but if you would like it I will of course read your story asap.


I am off to Über Stepford tomorrow, where I have to do some sorting out of Outlaw Mom's effects (my Outlaw Mom passed away a few months ago and I have been trying to get this task on the go for a while), so I won't be able to come on the board as much in the next few days but I will try to pop in.

I have so much enjoyed reading and thinking through the stories, as well as writing my own - and thank you so much Dampy, JBJ and Anonymice for the valued feedback.

If anyone can comment as to whether the more formal style of my writing in the narrative compared to the slang-y chat of the dialogue makes the story less easy to read (as one Anonymouse mentioned), I would be very grateful.

 

[NaokoSmith]

*shivers*

Edit: What is 'Tiger Mom' category?

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. By Amy Chua. She is a Prof of Law and she wrote this book with her tongue in her cheek, about the strict upbringing of Chinese children - very focussed on academic achievement.

Some people adored it and slavishly tried to consider if they could refuse their children sleepovers and make them practice the violin for hours on end. (No, no! there is no soundproof room in the house, for Gawd's sake, Piglet, not Handel's Menuet again! .)

Others castigated such a system of parenting.

Amy Chua had written the book with what she thought was a light tone and was taken aback by its success and the humour failure of many of its readers.


(I am a Noodle Mom! Not a Tiger Mom. Mmm, slurp-y noodles .)

 

[damppanties]

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. By Amy Chua. She is a Prof of Law and she wrote this book with her tongue in her cheek, about the strict upbringing of Chinese children - very focussed on academic achievement.

Some people adored it and slavishly tried to consider if they could refuse their children sleepovers and make them practice the violin for hours on end. (No, no! there is no soundproof room in the house, for Gawd's sake, Piglet, not Handel's Menuet again! .)

Others castigated such a system of parenting.

Amy Chua had written the book with what she thought was a light tone and was taken aback by its success and the humour failure of many of its readers.


(I am a Noodle Mom! Not a Tiger Mom. Mmm, slurp-y noodles .)

Ah, nice! Yes, the whole academic achievement thing is the same in Indian culture. If you aren't a doctor or an engineer, you're nothing.

My story suffered from lack of time as I mentioned. I intend on pulling it and doing a fair bit of addition to it.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Ah, nice! Yes, the whole academic achievement thing is the same in Indian culture. If you aren't a doctor or an engineer, you're nothing.

My story suffered from lack of time as I mentioned. I intend on pulling it and doing a fair bit of addition to it.

Great! it's a lovely story and I think would benefit from a brush and comb and a wash of its face. Don't do too much to it - it's very pretty already.

 

[PennLady]

I do have one question. In my story, the one element that I gather people thought I could have handled better was "intellect," defined as "one of the characters is very smart." I don't entirely disagree, but I would like to know -- what would have been a better way to handle it?

"Very smart" can range of course; a person can be book smart or street smart or insightful into other people or what have you. Some have a knack for seeing patterns, or seeing things through to their consequences. Others are deep thinkers, philospher types. But how -- especially if you are not smart in those ways -- do you show this?

In my story, this character had a PhD, although the field wasn't stated specifically. It would have been some bio-chem thing, though, as I gave his job as "biomedical researcher" (which I made up, at least in the sense that I didn't look to see if such a position existed, but it seemed reasonable). To me, you can't be dumb and get to that level in any field; you might be socially inept, and not so smart in other areas, but you're not stupid.

I did two other things in attempt to show it. First, he quickly picked up on the rules and strategies of soccer. Not because he is a guy and predisposed to it, but because he explored it and then wanted to see if what he observed fit what he'd studied, and he could see it all coming together. Second, he had a work project in the back of his mind and something clicked and then he started writing it down. Maybe this is because I would be impressed by someone who could do that, but I thought this showed some knowledge, at least, or talent.

Anyway, there's my question, long-winded though it may be -- how would you show/display intellect?

 

[patientlee]

This was my favourite story and these were my original quickly dashed off comments:

The background world of Indie Wrestling is very well depicted. There’s a great human pull in too, with the way the people who are working in it are struggling. That sense of being good at the art, and pushed out by people who look shiny on tv cameras; not being bitter about it but wishing it were a meritocratic world is lightly yet firmly sketched. Erica is a fab character. Her physical strength and fitness are depicted as so sexy. The way she even struggles to get a match is another human bit of realism.

LOL, I had to think a bit about ‘affectation’. Then I realised that it’s so much part of the wrestling world that one commentator even thought you didn’t use it. The way you twisted ‘envy’ and made a storyline out of it that says, Make the best of what you have, while continuing to strive for better, was absolutely brilliant.

(You might enjoy Roland Barthes’ famous essay on the semiotics of wrestling, if you haven’t read it already.)

Aside from the lousy typos, this was a top dollar story and very very sexy.

No that was not a tear, just a bit of dust in my eye at the end. I live in a very dusty house, y’know cuz I am a slut .

Comments on further consideration:
I love this story because it has human interest: central character who is not getting younger and is trying to come to terms with the possibility that he is mediocre although he operates in a world of glamour and sex appeal.
- It has dynamic movement: he is overcoming his envy.
- It has a satisfying resolution with a moral message: He accepts that he will not make it BIG, and yet he gets a small satisfying reward because he has made clear his lack of satisfaction with the small and the lack of progress in his career.
- It has a moment when we are invited to see something clearly. BIG success doesn't always come because of merit, sometimes it's because of something more superficial. To make it BIG in the wrestling world you have to be televisually appealing, not good at wrestling.

(I kinda would have liked a bit more maybe on the threesome sex, la la la, y'know just as uh, a bit of background information on uh, caravans. )

ETA: this is a crap translation of Barthes's essay. Maybe I can find a better one somewhere when I am back from Über Stepford.

That was my comment about affectation. I had affectation as well, and I guess I understood it differently.

This story has stuck with me. I just keep thinking about it. It's a good one.

 

[damppanties]

Anyway, there's my question, long-winded though it may be -- how would you show/display intellect?

Lovely question for discussion.

I know people might have been a little confused by fawcker's little tags to the ingredients, but in my mind being intellectual is more a life of the mind. People who are smart might not be intellectual. Smart is a much more common thing. 'Intellectual' to me is a much more kind of bookish, almost geeky kind of a thing. You made a nice distinction with street smart vs. philosophical or deep thinkers.

Coming to how I might have worked with it, I think a little more exposition of his work if I had chosen to make him a biomedical researcher (and given him a title that sounded a little important as is due his PhD status - Director of Research at so-and-so rather than just researcher perhaps). Maybe throw in a conversation about his work where he explains what he does / is doing. Perhaps the female protag being a little intimidated/impressed by his home 'study' area. Perhaps mention a lot of books in his house. In the party at the end, some intellectual conversation that the female protag is not a part of so she feels totally out of the loop. Trying to make the distinction between the two protags a little sharper, perhaps in terms of a little difference in personality or some quirks that might have been more sharply defined.

 

[sr71plt]

I think the best way would be to have the character demonstrate a very broad and deep capability to converse in several different worlds (e.g., art, music, literature, various sciences, philosophy). Intellect would be something demonstrated, not possession of a piece of paper. Also, smart would be having the ability; intellect would be demonstration that the character not only had, but also exercised the ability. Again, the piece of paper is a certificate of knowledge once answered back to certification testing; it's not a demonstration of the ability to use the knowledge now--and in more than a narrow-band of knowledge.

Hillary Clinton is smart. Thomas Jefferson was intellectual.

 

[PennLady]

I know people might have been a little confused by fawcker's little tags to the ingredients, but in my mind being intellectual is more a life of the mind. People who are smart might not be intellectual. Smart is a much more common thing. 'Intellectual' to me is a much more kind of bookish, almost geeky kind of a thing. You made a nice distinction with street smart vs. philosophical or deep thinkers.

Thank you. And you're right, I think I took the instructions a bit too literally, which I am wont to do in general and probably especially when on a deadline.

Coming to how I might have worked with it, I think a little more exposition of his work if I had chosen to make him a biomedical researcher (and given him a title that sounded a little important as is due his PhD status - Director of Research at so-and-so rather than just researcher perhaps).

This again was a result of the time crunch -- more time spent researching is less time for writing.

I think the best way would be to have the character demonstrate a very broad and deep capability to converse in several different worlds (e.g., art, music, literature, various sciences, philosophy). Intellect would be something demonstrated, not possession of a piece of paper. Also, smart would be having the ability; intellect would be demonstration that the character not only had, but also exercised the ability. Again, the piece of paper is a certificate of knowledge once answered back to certification testing; it's not a demonstration of the ability to use the knowledge now--and in more than a narrow-band of knowledge.

Both of these are good suggestions and I think I will try to work them into a revised version. What I worry about, though, is that *I* don't know much about these subjects, and so I'm leery of getting too deep into them in a story. You can only fake so much. You can certain *tell* such a thing, and nearly everything is a mix of show-and-tell.

I tried to show/tell this ability with my story by describing how he processes things but I'm not sure it worked well.

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

TXTallTales - I am so sorry I didn't quite manage to read your story. I kinda feel you have a devoted fan base so you don't need my feedback? but if you would like it I will of course read your story asap.

Thanks Naoko - I understand mine is a bit of a long read, and not everyone's cup of tea. Still not certain if I'll leave it as is, in the Chain Story category. Thanks for the offer to read it, I'm sure I'll be getting feedback in the future, once the regulars find it

If anyone can comment as to whether the more formal style of my writing in the narrative compared to the slang-y chat of the dialogue makes the story less easy to read (as one Anonymouse mentioned), I would be very grateful.

I actually liked that a lot. I prefer dialog to be more natural, while keeping the narrative in a more proper voice.

Good luck with your adventure.

 

[damppanties]

This again was a result of the time crunch -- more time spent researching is less time for writing.

Oh, believe me, I know. My story had the same issue.

 

[sr71plt]

Both of these are good suggestions and I think I will try to work them into a revised version. What I worry about, though, is that *I* don't know much about these subjects, and so I'm leery of getting too deep into them in a story. You can only fake so much. You can certain *tell* such a thing, and nearly everything is a mix of show-and-tell.

I tried to show/tell this ability with my story by describing how he processes things but I'm not sure it worked well.

I think it's true that "intellectual" proved to be one of the more difficult elements in the exercise. In your story setup, maybe having him converse on a more complex plain than she does on common topics. (And maybe you did that). The hook of the Rizoli and Isles TV show is that, exactly, I think.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Anyway, there's my question, long-winded though it may be -- how would you show/display intellect?

SMART: GETTING THE OUTCOME YOU WANT REGARDLESS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES OR CONDITIONS OF THE ENDEAVOR.

INTELLECTUAL: FAMILIARITY WITH THE WHOLE FUND OF KNOWLEDGE THATS APPLICABLE TO YOUR ENDEAVOR.

Therefore a library is the haunt of the intellectual.

 

[PennLady]

I think it's true that "intellectual" proved to be one of the more difficult elements in the exercise. In your story setup, maybe having him converse on a more complex plain than she does on common topics. (And maybe you did that). The hook of the Rizoli and Isles TV show is that, exactly, I think.

I didn't, really, although I implied it, or tried to, in a couple of spots. That's not as good as showing or telling, though.

 

[slyc_willie]

I didn't go into too much specificity on the basket ingredients mainly because I know there are a lot of interpretations for just about all of them. How an author sees "intellectual" isn't necessarily how the readers will see it. As has been pointed out, an intellectual isn't the same for everyone.

Personally, when I think intellectual, I think someone who has a large amount of knowledge across a broad number of fields. Not a bookworm who can simply regurgitate endless facts, figures, dates, and so forth, but someone who can assimilate the knowledge and use it correctly.

Ben Franklin was an intellectual. Albert Einstein was an intellectual. Isaac Asimov was an intellectual. They were well-read, but were also inventive. They could apply what they learned and read in new and different ways.

At the same time, in the context of a story, an intellectual could just be a physics professor. Intelligence is implied for someone in such a field, and that's usually enough for most readers.

 

[sr71plt]

Perhaps the more significant consideration would be how it was integrated into the story as a story element no matter how it was defined as a characteristic.

 

[slyc_willie]

Perhaps the more significant consideration would be how it was integrated into the story as a story element no matter how it was defined as a characteristic.

In a roundabout way, that was kind of what I was getting at, though I admit I lost myself in my own explanation.

The point is, as long as it was used and conveyed, then it was successful.