Finishing stories by others

[soflabbwlvr]

The whole discussion of using plotlines and characters in relationship to copyright is off, I think. Copyright is about word passages, not characters and plotlines. Trademark is about characters and plotlines--and there's very little that is trademarked.

Beyond that, as PennLady noted, it's pretty much "so what?" in Literotica terms on talking copyright at all on this issue. You have no leverage on copyright in the states (where this Web site is registered) without holding a formal copyright, and I snort at the suggestion that Literotica writers are filing for formal copyright. So, as far as I'm concerned, bringing copyright into this discussion is irrelevant.

I'll stick with what makes me think is sleazy practice.

Context. I was responding directly to JBJ's post regarding sequels and parody, and the practice of other authors producing them. I was not addressing the original post. In any event, copyright protects a bundle of rights including the right to create derivative works based upon the original work. That includes the right to produce sequels.

The example you gave did not apply because the copyright on the original work expired in the 1800s, but the sequel wasn't published until 2011.

 

[FinishTheDamnStory]

That's not the way it works, chum. It's your job to get the permissions unless you just want to be sleazy and parasitic.

What? No imagination of your own?

Uh, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it 'works'. I've got four posted stories and several more submitted that prove that.

As for being called sleazy and parasitic, I don't mind. I'm sure I'll be called worse. Has the name calling bothered you too much, chum?

What part of "ABANDONED" do you not understand? Writer's leave and abandon stories all the time. Disappear, after readers have invested their time and effort getting involved in a story that is left incomplete. I try to get permission, and if the author does not reply, and the story gets posted, they still have the option to request me to pull it.

You needn't worry. Your stories seem to be completed. More power to you.

 

[lovecraft68]

Seeing this is a free site I would find it flattering if someone wanted to do something with my characters.

With the caveat that they did ask permission. It would be interesting to see another writer's take on it.

But all my stuff is done unless you count the endless requests for 2nd chapters on my one shots.

To Finishthedamnedstory: Are you including in an opening author's note that you tried contacting authors and got permission or never heard back? It might help

Which brings me to my next point. Be prepared for heavy trolling and name calling in your stories. Some people are very protective of their favorite authors.

 

[sr71plt]

Uh, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it 'works'. I've got four posted stories and several more submitted that prove that.

Yep, I'm quite sure that you "think"--because it's what's convenient for you--that that's how it works. Did I mention sleazy and parasitic?

 

[FinishTheDamnStory]

Context. I was responding directly to JBJ's post regarding sequels and parody, and the practice of other authors producing them. I was not addressing the original post. In any event, copyright protects a bundle of rights including the right to create derivative works based upon the original work. That includes the right to produce sequels.

The example you gave did not apply because the copyright on the original work expired in the 1800s, but the sequel wasn't published until 2011.

I believe you have a point. There is no copyright infringement. There is no plagiarism. I give credit to the original work in every case.

The issue of Derivative works is a sound one, for US Copyright. These stories are derivative. The amount of copyright protection required by the original work, the right to fair use, and the transformative nature of the sequels, make this a non-issue, in this case.

 

[oggbashan]

It might have made the discussion more relevant if you had put in the original post this quote from your bio:

I don't want to step on too many toes, and hijacking an author's work is not what I'm intending. It's just that so many authors start up and then disappear. They do comeback, so I'm not going to jump on a story after a few months of inactivity. So here's what I've made as my own criteria for completing an abandoned story.

1) Writer has not submitted anything in over 2 years

2) The story has not been added to in at least 3 years

3) Attempts to contact the author have been unsuccessful

4) Story comments indicating a desire for the story to continue

5) Interesting enough premise to make it worth while to continue

I have several incomplete stories that might fit criteria 2, 4 and 5, but I wouldn't meet 1 nor 3.

I would not be concerned if you met ALL 5 criteria before 'completing' an abandoned story. I'm not sure item 4 is necessary. I would be worried if only some of the other 4 were met.

 

[FinishTheDamnStory]

It might have made the discussion more relevant if you had put in the original post this quote from your bio:

I don't want to step on too many toes, and hijacking an author's work is not what I'm intending. It's just that so many authors start up and then disappear. They do comeback, so I'm not going to jump on a story after a few months of inactivity. So here's what I've made as my own criteria for completing an abandoned story.

1) Writer has not submitted anything in over 2 years

2) The story has not been added to in at least 3 years

3) Attempts to contact the author have been unsuccessful

4) Story comments indicating a desire for the story to continue

5) Interesting enough premise to make it worth while to continue

I have several incomplete stories that might fit criteria 2, 4 and 5, but I wouldn't meet 1 nor 3.

I would not be concerned if you met ALL 5 criteria before 'completing' an abandoned story. I'm not sure item 4 is necessary. I would be worried if only some of the other 4 were met.

Perhaps you're correct. I could have made this clearer.

I agree, your stories would not be eligible. If one did drive me crazy enough to feel a desire to continue it, I would simply contact you. Because you are active, if you did not give me explicit permission to continue, I would not.

 

[driphoney]

I thought the poster was frustrated over uncompleted stories, but the first one I opened up, he actually comments that the original author did complete the story ... just not to his liking. He essentially re-wrote the ending.

Why the arbitrary three year and two year cut off? Why not five and ten? Confirmed death? Confirmed approval? Too inconvenient?

 

[FinishTheDamnStory]

I thought the poster was frustrated over uncompleted stories, but the first one I opened up, he actually comments that the original author did complete the story ... just not to his liking. He essentially re-wrote the ending.

Why the arbitrary three year and two year cut off? Why not five and ten? Confirmed death? Confirmed approval? Too inconvenient?

I believe there are two type of unfinished stories.

1) The author writes chapter X, claims more will come, and it ends. The obvious ones.

2) The author stops a story, with several incomplete plot lines, or some kind of cliffhanger, leaving the reader clamoring for more.

I will write sequels for both types. I beg to differ on re-writing the ending. I do not change the original in any way, I write a possible alternative conclusion, mostly based on behavior exhibited in the first part. I have confessed, I will give a protagonist a spine if one appears missing.

In the case of TheCelt's Rules of Marriage, which I would guess you're talking about, he specifically, in the comments to the first chapter, made it clear the first three chapters were the story, and you could come up with your own conclusion. That's where I started. He later added a chapter 4, stating it was his resolution of an open ending, after pressed by his readers to give an ending. Yes, my resolution was different than his.


Yes, my 3/2 year cut-off is arbitrary. I'm not aware of any 'official' cut off date to determine an author is inactive, and chose what I considered a reasonable one. If you have a valid argument for a different one, I'd be happy to discuss it. It's not written in stone.

Why not 5 and 10? That would eliminate 90%+ of the abandoned stories. You're suggesting only stories written in 03 and before?

Confirmed death? Right, this is too ridiculous to address in a reasonable discussion.

Confirmed approval? Again, what part of 'abandoned' do you not understand?

Too inconvenient? I believe I am going out of my way to explain my rationale, to attempt to contact the writers, and to provide methods of removing material. If I was concerned about convenience, I'd just finish anything I wanted to, as many other authors have done. Literotica does not seem to have an issue with that.

 

[RoyceConnors]

I'm of the mind to say, leave other's stories alone and write your own. If it isn't finished, so what? It's not your place to finish it, no matter what you conceive as an ending. The writer created something and it's his/hers to do what they want with it, finished or not.

I understand the frustration of unfinished stories, but if it isn't, don't read it if it bothers you.

 

[FinishTheDamnStory]

I understand the frustration of unfinished stories, but if it isn't, don't read it if it bothers you.

I like your attitude. Don't read it if it bothers you.

 

[SecondCircle]

Sure. Let it fly I guess. As long as he's working under the parameters he's given, then it shouldn't really trample anyone's efforts.

Still, there is logic to what others have said to you, though the comments may have been a bit aggressive. You're obviously one of the passionate readers that doesn't like it when a good author leaves a good story hanging. And you're doing a questionable but tactfully tasteful service to others that share your view. A lot of readers will be overjoyed to at least get some finished version of their favorite series.

At the same time, however, it does come off as a bit obsessive and parasitic. Authors SHOULD have the respect enough for their readers to finish a story. (I have different opinions than most on the difference in a "chapter" and a "sequel" really are where it pertains to a short story.) Even so, to take someone's brain child, with or without permission, is a little uncreative and lazy in its own way, flattering as it may be.

If a story ain't finished, be a grown folk, raise hell about it, and then... move on. Find a new story for Pete's sake. That withering pile of gold belongs to that author. Start your own series, a great one, and command the attention of the masses with your tale of bellowed sex cries and splattering orgasmic nectar.

Then end it. End it well my friend. Receive red H in the lobby and delete trollish comments at will.

... and there's my confusing two sided take on finishing someone else's story. I think I'll head to the parlor for some white cake.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not being aggressive. I'm not coming after him or anything. The question was what did we think of such a person/practice. My opinion is that such a person is sleazy and a parasite. Obviously he doesn't care. I have just answered the opinion question asked.

 

[SecondCircle]

I'm not being aggressive. I'm not coming after him or anything. The question was what did we think of such a person/practice. My opinion is that such a person is sleazy and a parasite. Obviously he doesn't care. I have just answered the opinion question asked.

Aggressive isn't a negative thing. It just meant you had a more forward opinion than simply saying "I don't like it". Not a bad thing at all. OP has the opinions now I guess. FTDS is gonna do what he wants. And we'll still think sleazy of it.

 

[jdnunyer]

I was asked once by someone who is a fan of both my work and an abandoned series whether I'd finish that series. It's several years old, the author has disappeared, at last word had serious health issues, etc. Meets all of FTDS' criteria. The main reasons I haven't, and won't, are 1) I still have my own series to finish, and 2) I don't think I can finish that author's series, not without doing it grave injustice. But if I could, and if I had the time, I would, if only to send to this fan privately.

The idea of someone coming along and writing the next installment of my series while I'm still working on it bothers me. Or rewriting my endings, or whatever. But given the very reasonable criteria FTDS has laid out, I really don't see the problem.

This is different for obvious reasons, but if GRRM dies before finishing aSoIaF, I sure hope his wife and editor find someone else to finish the series, the way Sanderson finished WoT. When fans really get invested in a series, I think they deserve closure. No, I don't think anyone is as attached to anything here as millions were WoT and are aSoIaF, but I still couldn't help thinking of those series while reading this thread.