So if Muslims in America started organizing militias...

[Byron In Exile]

Be careful of shot placement though...I killed the last sum bitch who shot me and failed.

That's all any laws are...rules a group of people agree to live by. Kinda like language...a set of symbols that represent an agreed upon meaning within a group. Without that agreement neither have any meaning what so ever.

Only be cause we the people agree that it wont be.

That is the case with all laws and even rights....they only exist because we all agree they do.

Well that is what breeds something we like to call dissension....a natural occurring consequence of when the group cannot come to an agreement.

Won't have much of a choice will I? I either comply or rebel....

No I'm actually very pro liberty....but the reality is my liberty is afforded to me by the community around me, without them I probably wouldn't live long. We are a social species that needs the herd. And in order to have a functioning herd the herd has to agree upon a set of rules that it will live by. Even cave man knew this....why don't you??

As can any other right or law the herd affords the individual.

I guarantee you if 99% of america voted to do away with the bill of right there wouldn't be a fucking thing you could do to stop them from torching it.

What I think should be, wish could be and my perception of what actually is, are all different things....don't confuse them or assume b/c you heard a tidbit of one you know about the other.

I'm pretty sure he asked for clarification, not an acid trip.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Three dead, and the whites didn't take their guns first so that's irrelevant to what's on the billboard.

Look, I'm not discounting that atrocities happened. They certainly did (on both sides) but by the time these massacres and western battles were winding up, the vast majority of Native Americans were already dead from smallpox, cholera, diphtheria, malaria and a host of other diseases to which they'd never before been exposed and for which they therefore had no immunity.

This is a stupid argument. Have a good night, guys.

No, it was interesting. Not sure it qualifies as an argument, though — it takes two sides for that, and you were essentially unopposed.

 

[BotanyBoy]

...you're really not.

The "but" says it all, poser.

Really?

Because I'm not an anarchist suddenly I'm anti liberty?

Tell me again how civilized societies without rule of law are....
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50962000/jpg/_50962882_103366241.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01294/somalia-reuters_1294908c.jpg
http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/660/371/Somalia%20Blast_Leff.jpg?ve=1

So, yet again, I ask you:
^ ???

Why re-hash? It's just disorganized crazy nonsense....why regulate/licence anyone ANYTHING right???

That's correct; the annual tax is for FFLs.

Don't need an FFL to own an item or get an NFA tax stamp.....you get a trust/corporation, get your 200 dollar stamp from the ATF and you go buy your item.

Where? In your dreams?

The ATF says 240,000 registered machine guns, half of which belong to law enforcement. So about 120,000 machine guns are possessed by civilians.

The rest of this is just a lot of disorganized crazy nonsense.

Yea machine guns....what about SBR's,SBS's, DD's, Supressors, HE, Incen....did you add those too? A lot more people can afford 1500 dollar suppessors and short barrel/upper mods than they can a full auto's. Hell even 4,000 dollar 203's aren't bad...but it's a 200$ stamp for each chalk/HEDP round...but the flair/smoke grenades are just the cost of the round b/c they don't esplode.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Why re-hash? It's just disorganized crazy nonsense....

It's not re-hash because you never answered the question.

why regulate/licence anyone ANYTHING right???

Yeah, sure. Ever heard of a "logical fallacy"? You're soaking in it.

Don't need an FFL to own an item or get an NFA tax stamp.....

I know.

you get a trust/corporation, get your 200 dollar stamp from the ATF and you go buy your item.

Or you can buy it yourself.

Yea machine guns....what about SBR's,SBS's, DD's, Supressors, HE, Incen....did you add those too? A lot more people can afford 1500 dollar suppessors and short barrel/upper mods than they can a full auto's. Hell even 4,000 dollar 203's aren't bad...but it's a 200$ stamp for each chalk/HEDP round...but the flair/smoke grenades are just the cost of the round b/c they don't esplode.

What about 'em? "Millions of NFA item owners..." Sure. Link me up with some stats.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It's not re-hash because you never answered the question.

Yeah, sure. Ever heard of a "logical fallacy"? You're soaking in it.

You are absolutely right, we should allow anyone to have possession of any gun they can afford at any time they wish...no exceptions as there is no reason to regulate highly dangerous items like guns.

All bs aside I think it would help in the sense it would draw a clear line for LEO/Prosecutors, the law abiding citizen and those we have deemed as a society unfit to buy/possess a weapon. That is something we don't have right now...does not infringe on the law abiding citizens right to buy/possess a weapon, imo it in fact helps protect it but lets be serious here....the important thing is it's a compromise to keep herd cohesion.

I know.

Or you can buy it yourself.

What about 'em? "Millions of NFA item owners..." Sure. Link me up with some stats.

Buying it yourself is a bigger pain in the dick and usually takes a good deal longer but yes you can do that too.

I read it in a issue of AR15 or one of the other gun mags living on the back of my shitter. They said all NFA items combined are estimated at just over 10 million with over 13mil stamps issued....the vast majority of which are SBS/SBR's/Suppressors. Which really isn't that many when you consider that's nearly 70 years worth of stamp issuing, that also beg's the question how much of that is actually functioning/serviceable 10 was just a stab in the dark but it doesn't sound like an unreasonable estimate at all. Consider most collectors at that level have more than one item and you are looking at about 1% maybe 1.5 if you want to be real generous of the population as owners. Sounds pretty accurate.

I'm not digging up anything...if you want to come over and take a shit you can be my guest it's in there somewhere, it's right after some "the obama is coming for you!!" article I found quite amusing.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Teh Tree of Liberty From Time To Time Must Be Watered With Teh Blood Of Children Too Slow To Duck

But hai, guns make chronic bedwetters like Byron feel IMPORTANT.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Teh Tree of Liberty From Time To Time Must Be Watered With Teh Blood Of Children Too Slow To Duck

But hai, guns make chronic bedwetters like Byron feel IMPORTANT.

"On Tuesday afternoon, a five-year-old boy fatally shot his two-year-old sister in Cumberland County, Kentucky with .22 rifle the five-year-old was given as a gift."

Some tucky' billies dumb enough to give their kids guns to play with lost them...natural selection hard at work...I don't see what the problem is.

Now I'm not saying we should kill people....

I'm just saying we should take the warning labels off of everything for a little bit and let the problem sort itself out yahhh mean??

 

[eyer]

Really?

Because I'm not an anarchist suddenly I'm anti liberty?

Tell me again how civilized societies without rule of law are....

You should really just shut up about issues you have no actual grasp of...

...the Constitution is the rule of law; the 2nd Amendment as currently written is the rule of law.

The natural right to bear arms - just like the natural right to free speech/conscience - was placed above the law; neither the 1st or the 2nd grant either freedom of speech or the right to bear arms...

...they both specifically outlaw any man, any government from assaulting either of those natural rights. Period.

So f off with just more of your bullcrap: you have made it crystal clear that for overt purposes you do not champion upholding and defending a nation of law, for you've surrendered that righteousness to be a just another lemming in a nation of men...

...but even there you're a disingenuous poser, because for all your lemmingese of obeying the law your fellow man lays before you, you still choose to break it for your own illegal delight.

You're the lawbreaker, lemming...

...your arbitrariness in following any law simply blows with the wind your ego produces.

Next time you stick your finger up your azz to assess which way your mind is flowing at that given moment, try stuffing some of your bullcrap back up where it came from.

 

[phrodeau]

"On Tuesday afternoon, a five-year-old boy fatally shot his two-year-old sister in Cumberland County, Kentucky with .22 rifle the five-year-old was given as a gift."

Some tucky' billies dumb enough to give their kids guns to play with lost them...natural selection hard at work...I don't see what the problem is.

Now I'm not saying we should kill people....

I'm just saying we should take the warning labels off of everything for a little bit and let the problem sort itself out yahhh mean??

Good job that it wasn't a machine gun, or he would have mowed down his mother too.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You should really just shut up about issues you have no actual grasp of...

...the Constitution is the rule of law; the 2nd Amendment as currently written is the rule of law.

Uh hua....and what is a law? A rule that we all agree to abide by...it only exist because we as a people say it does.

The natural right to bear arms - just like the natural right to free speech/conscience - was placed above the law; neither the 1st or the 2nd grant either freedom of speech or the right to bear arms...

No it's not...all it takes is enough people to decide they don't want to live under those rules and they are GONE brotha!!

...they both specifically outlaw any man, any government from assaulting either of those natural rights. Period.

I do believe there is a legal process called amending to do just that should we the people decide to take that course of action. Right's just like laws only exist, only have meaning because we say they do...if we all decide it's no longer a right...guess what??? IT'S NOT!!

So f off with just more of your bullcrap: you have made it crystal clear that for overt purposes you do not champion upholding and defending a nation of law, for you've surrendered that righteousness to be a just another lemming in a nation of men...

Like I said you can either abide by the law or rebel...you don't have any other options now do you? But the law's themselves are still just mental constructs of our society.

...but even there you're a disingenuous poser, because for all your lemmingese of obeying the law your fellow man lays before you, you still choose to break it for your own illegal delight.

You're the lawbreaker, lemming...

...your arbitrariness in following any law simply blows with the wind your ego produces.

That's my risk to take and thus responsibility to bear....but good point, notice even the cannabis laws are shifting...because as with all laws it's only if we the people say it is. I'm just going with the crowd here in my state in giving the feds the finger on this one....democracy is a real bitch when it doesn't go your way isn't it? And the war on cannabis is NOT going well for the gubbmint...because the people don't support it.

Next time you stick your finger up your azz to assess which way your mind is flowing at that given moment, try stuffing some of your bullcrap back up where it came from.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21954003.jpg

 

[Byron In Exile]

You are absolutely right, we should allow anyone to have possession of any gun they can afford at any time they wish...no exceptions as there is no reason to regulate highly dangerous items like guns.

All bs aside I think it would help in the sense it would draw a clear line for LEO/Prosecutors, the law abiding citizen and those we have deemed as a society unfit to buy/possess a weapon. That is something we don't have right now...does not infringe on the law abiding citizens right to buy/possess a weapon, imo it in fact helps protect it but lets be serious here....the important thing is it's a compromise to keep herd cohesion.

So how would "regulation" (I assume that means NFA-style fingerprinting/license/tax) keep guns "out of the wrong hands"?

Criminals won't give a rip.

 

[cjh]

A universal licensing requirement would violate the 2nd Amendment.

How do you know that?

Marriage is a fundamental right, yet you still have to be licensed to get married.

 

[Byron In Exile]

http://gawker.com/2-year-old-girl-shot-to-death-by-5-year-old-brother-486174051

So what are you sayin'?

But hai, guns make chronic bedwetters like Byron feel IMPORTANT.

What, no penis references?

You gun-o-phobes have been recycling the same insults for years. Would a new schtick be too much to ask for?

Have a cheeseburger and brainstorm (or light braindrizzle, in your case) about it.

 

[koalabear]

The vast majority of NFA-style fingerprinting/license/taxes are for sound suppressors, not weapons.

 

[RobDownSouth]

So what are you sayin'?

Little children die for your gun fetish.

What, no penis references?

If you want someone to talk about your penis, I suggest you contact Vetteman. He'll be more than happy to oblige.

You gun-o-phobes have been recycling the same insults for years. Would a new schtick be too much to ask for?

You're not worthy of my "A" material.

Have a cheeseburger and brainstorm (or light braindrizzle, in your case) about it.

I suspect you heard that quite often in your homeskool.

 

[Byron In Exile]

The vast majority of NFA-style fingerprinting/license/taxes are for sound suppressors, not weapons.

Rather hard to gauge how successful "regulation" has been regarding sound suppressors, isn't it?

The point was that people are rarely shot with NFA weapons. Those would be machine guns and 50 cal BMGs.

But fully automatic rifles are about 0.04% of the guns out there, and an automatic AR-15 will run you $10,000 or more. Not many criminals have that kind of change in their piggy bank.

 

[koalabear]

Rather hard to gauge how successful "regulation" has been regarding sound suppressors, isn't it?

The point was that people are rarely shot with NFA weapons. Those would be machine guns and 50 cal BMGs.

But fully automatic rifles are about 0.04% of the guns out there, and an automatic AR-15 will run you $10,000 or more. Not many criminals have that kind of change in their piggy bank.

About the only thing full auto is good for is burning up ammo.

 

[Byron In Exile]

How do you know that?

Marriage is a fundamental right, yet you still have to be licensed to get married.

If you have to be licensed, then it's a privilege.

License is from licet, licere: "it is permitted."

There was a time when the state granted permission for two people to marry, back when black/white marriages were not permitted in many States, but today the "license" isn't denied and isn't revoked, so it's lost the function of a license even though it retains the name.

Some jurisdictions don't issue marriage licenses, but marriage certificates, and many recognize Common Law marriages.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Little children die for your gun fetish.

Tell them "thank you" for me, won't you?

If you want someone to talk about your penis, I suggest you contact Vetteman. He'll be more than happy to oblige.

It's really more SeanH's thing. When he looks at a gun, he sees a penis.

You're not worthy of my "A" material.

Buahaha...! Right... you have "A" material! A secret weapon of wit so devastating you've hidden it for eleven years, just waiting for the right moment to astonish us all.

I suspect you heard that quite often in your homeskool.

What are you talking about?

 

[cjh]

If you have to be licensed, then it's a privilege.

License is from licet, licere: "it is permitted."

There was a time when the state granted permission for two people to marry, back when black/white marriages were not permitted in many States, but today the "license" isn't denied and isn't revoked, so it's lost the function of a license even though it retains the name.

Some jurisdictions don't issue marriage licenses, but marriage certificates, and many recognize Common Law marriages.

So? You still have to have a license in some states.

Sometimes you have to have a license to exercise your First Amendment rights.

The analysis would focus on the extent of the restriction, the burden imposed, and the governmental purpose served.

A cheap license that can only be acquired if you have not been convicted of a felony, for example, might survive constitutional muster.

Dunno about one that requires a safety class.

 

[koalabear]

States that Require Firearm Safety Training or a Safety Exam Prior to Issuance of a License or Permit
California (handguns only)
Connecticut (handguns only)
Hawaii (handguns only)
Massachusetts
Michigan (handguns only)
Rhode Island (handguns only)

States Requiring Safety Training or a Safety Exam Prior to Issuance of a License or Permit:32 Massachusetts requires safety training of all applicants for a Firearm Identification (FID) card, Class A or Class B license, or permit to purchase a handgun. Applicants must submit a basic firearms safety certificate issued following a course that includes instruction on: (1) the safe use, handling and storage of firearms; (2) methods for securing and childproofing firearms; (3) the applicable laws relating to the possession, transportation and storage of firearms; and (4) knowledge of operation, potential dangers and basic competency in the ownership and usage of firearms.

California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Michigan and Rhode Island require safety training or a safety exam prior to issuance of a handgun license or permit.

California requires anyone purchasing a handgun to obtain a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) prior to purchase. To obtain a HSC, the applicant must pass a written safety test. In addition, subject to limited exceptions, all handgun purchasers are required to perform a safe handling demonstration with the handgun being purchased in the presence of a certified instructor. California law specifies various safe handling tasks the prospective purchaser must perform based on the type of handgun to be purchased.

In Connecticut, applicants for a handgun eligibility certificate must successfully complete an approved course in the safety and use of handguns. Hawaii requires handgun permit applicants to complete an approved course that focuses on: (1) the safe use, handling and storage of firearms and firearms safety in the home; and (2) state firearms laws. Permit applicants in Michigan must pass a basic pistol safety review questionnaire. In Rhode Island, anyone wishing to purchase a handgun who does not have a concealed handgun license and is not a member of law enforcement must complete a basic two-hour handgun safety course

 

[RobDownSouth]

Tell them "thank you" for me, won't you?

You don't have kids of your own, do you?

It's really more SeanH's thing. When he looks at a gun, he sees a penis.

It's basic Freud. You might have learned that had you attended an accredited college.

Buahaha...! Right... you have "A" material! A secret weapon of wit so devastating you've hidden it for eleven years, just waiting for the right moment to astonish us all.

A "Three Stooges" guys like you will undoubtedly be waiting a long time. Life without Cliff Notes is hard, isn't it?

What are you talking about?

Yet another phrase I suspect you heard quite often in homeskool.

 

[Byron In Exile]

So? You still have to have a license in some states.

So? As I said, it's a license in name only.

Sometimes you have to have a license to exercise your First Amendment rights.

When?

The analysis would focus on the extent of the restriction, the burden imposed, and the governmental purpose served.

Whose analysis?

A cheap license that can only be acquired if you have not been convicted of a felony, for example, might survive constitutional muster.

It's already illegal for convicted felons to possess firearms. What would be the point?

Dunno about one that requires a safety class.

Is it revokable?

 

[BotanyBoy]

So how would "regulation" (I assume that means NFA-style fingerprinting/license/tax) keep guns "out of the wrong hands"?

Criminals won't give a rip.

I'm not even for the tax part...just regulatory licencing/training.

No criminals won't give a rip....but the criminals won't have a licence either meaning if they get caught with guns without a licence they lose their shit and go to jail. Allowing LE to bring the hammer down on those non law abiding citizens in possession of weapons.

But if you are a law abiding citizen, have behaved and demonstrate competency with a firearm you get a licence and if questioned you just show your licence and go on about your merry way.

The only other two options are continue the free for all semi grey half ass regulated failure we currently have until enough bad shit happens the left get's their way. Or go with the dumb shit's on the left for more idiotic assault weapons bans...and we all know what a brilliant success those are.

So we can all work together and try to accomplish something productive, or continue the all or nothing partisan pissing contest until one side wins and we are back to square one.......which is the most likely outcome anyhow but hey...doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Byron In Exile]

You don't have kids of your own, do you?

I did, but I shot them all.

It's basic Freud. You might have learned that had you attended an accredited college.
A "Three Stooges" guys like you will undoubtedly be waiting a long time. Life without Cliff Notes is hard, isn't it?
Yet another phrase I suspect you heard quite often in homeskool.

*yawn*