GOP pushes back on raising minimum wage

[mercury14]

That depends where you live. I know in my area 7.25/hr wouldn't be even close to covering basic needs, which is probably why my state's minimum wage is over $2 higher than that.

I live in all-Republican Ohio. Republican governor and Republican super-majorities in the House and Senate. Ohio raised its minimum wage again for 2013 and has now raised it three out of the last four years. It hasn't impacted Ohio jobs-wise in the least and the unemployment rate is significantly better than the national average. In fact you could argue that raising minimum wage has actually increased jobs in Ohio by giving families a little more money to spend on Ohio businesses.

 

[mercury14]

State/city problem....if CA/NY/HI want to keep their min wage workers asking if they want fries with that. But the other 95% of the nation 7.25/hr will get you covered. If not maybe they should look somewhere other than Malibu or Martha's fucking vineyard to live...

No it will not. I already told you why it will not and you had no response.

What if a minimum wage worker needs medical care for something common like their kid having diabetes? There's no possible way you can say that the expense for that is affordable at 7.25/hr.

 

[John Doe]

State/city problem....if CA/NY/HI want to keep their min wage workers asking if they want fries with that. But the other 95% of the nation 7.25/hr will get you covered. If not maybe they should look somewhere other than Malibu or Martha's fucking vineyard to live...

I don't live in any of those three states. Care to guess again?

I live in all-Republican Ohio. Republican governor and Republican super-majorities in the House and Senate. Ohio raised its minimum wage again for 2013 and has now raised it three out of the last four years. It hasn't impacted Ohio jobs-wise in the least and the unemployment rate is significantly better than the national average. In fact you could argue that raising minimum wage has actually increased jobs in Ohio by giving families a little more money to spend on Ohio businesses.

Ohio isn't normal. Your Republicans vote like Democrats and your Democrats vote like schizophrenics.

 

[BotanyBoy]

They live in poverty. Working full time.

And their babies and children live in poverty and grown up in poverty. Want to have a chat about how much child poverty costs society?

And another min wage washout will save everyone the cost of that fucking morons decision to breed while barely able to take care of themselves how?

In 6mo to a year when 9/hr is every bit as fucking worthless and poor as 7.25 is now, and 5.50 was before that, and on and on and on..what cost will be saved?

And they're saving nothing for retirement.

And they don't get medical care other than expensive ER care that they can't pay for.

And they can't pay for unexpected costs such as medicine or medicine for their children.

They don't pay for it now dumb shit...and extra 1.75 isn't going to change the fact that 40,000 dollar ER visit bill is going in the trash as soon as they get it. WE ALREADY COVER THAT COST, using as justification to inc min wage is about as fucking retarded as it gets.

And if they get laid off they're extremely vulnerable to being evicted and becoming homeless.



That's your vision of America? A place where our people work full time and end up living like that?

I suggest they get a new job then!! FIND A WAY TO MAKE MONEY JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Not really that complicated.

That IS america...sink or swim bitch...you are not ENTITLED to life's luxuries without earning them...it's not a right, never has been and never will be.

People in the US don't even know wtf poverty is....
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyeRFnLSD47bazAU5cT-S2KX740_YfZQi9YQOq3yVIrj90oYeE5g

 

[mercury14]

Ohio isn't normal. Your Republicans vote like Democrats and your Democrats vote like schizophrenics.

Our Republican governor and legislature vote like republicans and many of them are pretty far right. The elected officials in this state are way to the right of their constituents though and regularly get their policies stomped out by voter referendums.

The Democrats in this state vote like mainstream-to-moderate Dems but are completely incapable of generating a decent candidate for anything. We've got Sherrod Brown and pretty much that's it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And now you're backpedaling. You said there were "plenty of places for$300-500 in every city".

How do they afford to move on minimum wage?

Did I not find shelter for 500 or less in NYC arguably one of the more expensive places in Murikuh to live?

Uhaul...29.99 all fucking day long...seriously.

No it will not. I already told you why it will not and you had no response.

What if a minimum wage worker needs medical care for something common like their kid having diabetes? There's no possible way you can say that the expense for that is affordable at 7.25/hr.

Yes it will...

Why the fuck are minimum wage morons having kids they can't afford and why is it my responsibility to take care of their poor poor life decisions?

I already said...we already pay for the medical care bro. No ER in this country will turn you away.

I don't live in any of those three states. Care to guess again?

Name your state I'll find a cheap as fuck place to live in there and link it.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Many of those millions are also getting food stamps, housing vouchers, WIC, EIC tax credits, Medicaid, etc.

What if the person has a kid? Can they still get by on min wage?

why would anyone making min wage have a fucking kid? The answer is they have to make a different choice.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Did I not find shelter for 500 or less in NYC arguably one of the more expensive places in Murikuh to live?

You did not.

 

[neci]

So? I never said it would be nice or comfy...I said you could shelter yourself. It proves my point exactly. You can live and provide basic needs on min wage....I did it for two fucking years bro. Ate lots of ramen/microwaveable meals, took a lot of bus rides and wore lots of uncool 2nd hand clothes....but they served me and I got out of it.



Pretty much...but even then you go to an ER? you will be taken care of and I have never lived in a town with a population over 3000 that didn't have some form of public trans.

around here, public transort is complete shit, and it's $1-2 a trip. then, you have to be ready to go 3-4 hours before you need to be somewhere, because they drive around to bumfuck and back picking people up at their houses. there aren't fixed stops. you have to call in the day before to get onto the schedule. lately there have been some efforts to improve things, but it's no where near efficient. vouchers are like gold, because there aren't a lot and are carefully doled out by chosen people who receive limited amounts. anyways. and don't get me started on the ER as a primary care facility.

i knew a girl once who was offered a free bike, so she could get a job and start fixing her life. she refused to take it, because she "couldn't" /didn't / wouldn't /want to learn/ to ride the bike.

 

[mercury14]

In 6mo to a year when 9/hr is every bit as fucking worthless and poor as 7.25 is now, and 5.50 was before that, and on and on and on..what cost will be saved?

And that's why we need to attach minimum wage to inflation or the CPI.

They don't pay for it now dumb shit...and extra 1.75 isn't going to change the fact that 40,000 dollar ER visit bill is going in the trash as soon as they get it.

You're backpedaling big time. First you said $7.25 was enough to get by, now you say it's enough to get by if you don't pay for the things you bought. You've just conceded your entire argument.

I suggest they get a new job then!! FIND A WAY TO MAKE MONEY JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Not really that complicated.

This argument isn't even rational. Maybe an individual person can get a better job but that doesn't change the problem at all. All you're doing is distorting by focusing on the individual when the problem spans many millions of jobs. Those jobs don't get better or more livable because of the actions of a particular person. People aren't working low-wage jobs when there are decent paying ones waiting for them just around the corner. They work low-wage jobs because that's what the economy offers.

 

[neci]

And that's why we need to attach minimum wage to inflation or the CPI.

pretty much. the cost of food is rising.

 

[mercury14]

why would anyone making min wage have a fucking kid? The answer is they have to make a different choice.

Maybe they made a bad choice seven years ago. Maybe they were married and had a kid and then got a divorce. Maybe they've taken in their niece because her mom is mentally ill or dead.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And that's why we need to attach minimum wage to inflation or the CPI.




You're backpedaling big time. First you said $7.25 was enough to get by, now you say it's enough to get by if you don't pay for the things you need. You've just conceded your entire argument.

I'm not backpedaling at all...I said 7.25 was enough to provide food/shelter/clothing. The basic needs....and it is. EVERY fucking thing else you have brought up? Luxury item...they should be thankful they have a fucking ER to go to and such kind people to provide that for them....luxury..not necessity.

Those jobs don't get better or more livable because of the actions of a particular person.

No fucking shit moron....so accept the 7.25 and live in your shit shack eating ramen or get of the fuckin' fail boat and find a way to make more god damn money bro. It's not complicated....work smarter, work harder or enjoy poverty.

Maybe they made a bad choice seven years ago. Maybe they were married and had a kid and then got a divorce. Maybe they've taken in their niece because her mom is mentally ill or dead.

Any why in the fuck is any of that my responsibility? Looks like they need to do exactly what everyone else does....FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

HUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR LOLOLOLOL

 

[mercury14]

I have an idea! Let's add the VAT-style flat tax into the mix!

Now the $7.25/hr worker has to pay more for everything they buy and when their tax rate is decreased to compensate, well they were paying a 0% effective rate to begin with so they're not compensated at all.

Republicans insist this isn't class warfare though.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I'm not backpedaling at all...I said 7.25 was enough to provide food/shelter/clothing. The basic needs....and it is. EVERY fucking thing else you have brought up? Luxury item...they should be thankful they have a fucking ER to go to and such kind people to provide that for them....luxury..not necessity.




No fucking shit moron....so accept the 7.25 and live in your shit shack eating ramen or get of the fuckin' fail boat and find a way to make more god damn money bro. It's not complicated....work smarter, work harder or enjoy poverty.



Any why in the fuck is any of that my responsibility? Looks like they need to do exactly what everyone else does....FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

HUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR LOLOLOLOL

Medical care is a luxury?

No one ever said it was your responsibility to figure out. Looks like multiple people are simply saying your math does not come close to making sense and you're going off on unrelated rants.

Merc brought up a great point. Why would anyone work min wage when there is a higher paying job around the corner?

 

[KingOrfeo]

$9/hr for a 40-hour week for 52 weeks comes out to $18,720/yr. Do you really believe there's any state in the Union where you could support yourself on less?

 

[BotanyBoy]

I have an idea! Let's add the VAT-style flat tax into the mix!

Now the $7.25/hr worker has to pay more for everything they buy and when their tax rate is decreased to compensate, well they were paying a 0% effective rate to begin with so they're not compensated at all.

Republicans insist this isn't class warfare though.

Let's pull some flat tax bullshit to prop up more bleeding heart bullshit about how min wage workers CANT EVER AFFORD AN I PHONEE!!! BOOOOOOOOOO MOTHERFUKIN HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'll weep for them as I txt via Galaxy S3......

You did not.

http://hotpads.com/search#lat=40.78...ricing=false&loan=30,0.04,0&resultsPerQuad=32

I looked again...there are numerous places for people to live on that map...

even picked a spot just random click of the map...Louisville Ky

http://hotpads.com/rentals/118-28-1...0&includeVaguePricing=false&resultsPerQuad=24

Wouldn't you know there is a whole fucking SHITLOAD of them as is often the case. Like I said...you can find a shit shack for rent damn near anywhere....

 

[KingOrfeo]

RationalWiki sez:

The effects of the minimum wage, a legally-mandated lower limit on (usually hourly) pay rates, are the subject of some controversy. Introductory microeconomics would suggest that the setting of a price floor would prevent an equilibrium between price and quantity from being reached, thereby creating a surplus of the resource or product in question.

However, if the labor market is, as sometimes theorized,[1] a monopsonistic oligopoly, the market for labor fails, as firms under-pay workers (due to the transaction costs in switching jobs). As such, depending on the level, a minimum wage might actually decrease unemployment.

Empirical evidence is mixed. David Card and Alan Krueger found that a wage increase in New Jersey increased employment in New Jersey fast food restaurants along the border of Pennsylvania (where the introductory treatment would have expected employment losses).[2] On the other hand, David Neumark and William Wascher found "[statistically] insignificant—although almost always negative" employment effects from the same hike.[3]

United States

The current federal minimum wage in the U.S. is $7.25 per hour,[4] though it is higher in some states. Minimum wages in the U.S. have never been sufficient to raise a family out of poverty, if only one member of the family works. The minimum wage has varied from a maximum of 90% of the poverty level in 1968 and has averaged two thirds of the poverty level since 1959, when the poverty level was established.[5]

Footnotes

1.↑ Oligopsony appears to occur mostly in certain agricultural markets such as tomatoes, tobacco, and cocoa. Economists note that oligopsony is "scarcely mentioned" by industrial organization organization economists because "they don't think it's very important" and "don't believe it presents any unique modeling issues relative to seller market power" (Rogers, Richard T. and Sexton, Richard J., Assessing the Importance of Oligopsony Power in Agricultural Markets, Am. J. Agr. Econ. (1994) 76 (5): 1143-1150. doi: 10.2307/1243407); and that "One of the most difficult problems facing economists is to determine from market data whether or not market power is being exercised" (Richard E. Just and Wen S. Chern, Tomatoes, Technology, and Oligopsony, The Bell Journal of Economics, Vol. 11, No. 2 (Autumn, 1980), pp. 584-602). Since oligopsony is all about a few buyers exercising market power, if it is difficult to tell whether market power is being exercised, then it is difficult to determine oligopsony's existence and influence, and thus the idea that it is "widely held" that the labor market is an oligopsony is dubious.
2.↑ David Card and Alan B. Krueger, "Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania," American Economic Review, Volume 84, no. 4 (September 1994), pp. 774-775.
3.↑ Neumark & Wascher, American Economic Review, Volume 90 No. 5.
4.↑ http://www.dol.gov/whd/minimumwage.htm
5.↑ http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html/

 

[neci]

I'm not backpedaling at all...I said 7.25 was enough to provide food/shelter/clothing. The basic needs....and it is. EVERY fucking thing else you have brought up? Luxury item...they should be thankful they have a fucking ER to go to and such kind people to provide that for them....luxury..not necessity.




No fucking shit moron....so accept the 7.25 and live in your shit shack eating ramen or get of the fuckin' fail boat and find a way to make more god damn money bro. It's not complicated....work smarter, work harder or enjoy poverty.



Any why in the fuck is any of that my responsibility? Looks like they need to do exactly what everyone else does....FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

HUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR LOLOLOLOL

Article 25.

 

[mercury14]

I'm not backpedaling at all...I said 7.25 was enough to provide food/shelter/clothing. The basic needs....and it is. EVERY fucking thing else you have brought up? Luxury item...they should be thankful they have a fucking ER to go to and such kind people to provide that for them....luxury..not necessity.

So in your opinion, medicine is a luxury. You realize that when people go to the ER or a clinic they're quite often prescribed medication right? And especially if they're diagnosed with something long term (ie diabetes) that treatment is needed beyond their ER visit, right?

You're just floundering now. Medical care for oneself or one's child isn't a luxury. It's basic a basic need along with the other three things you listed. Because if you have an untreated illness you can't work to get food/clothing/shelter in the first place.

No fucking shit moron....so accept the 7.25 and live in your shit shack eating ramen or get of the fuckin' fail boat and find a way to make more god damn money bro. It's not complicated....work smarter, work harder or enjoy poverty.

You're engaging in the exact same distortion I just called you on. You just rephrased your comment and clicked 'Submit Reply' like nothing ever happened.

 

[KingOrfeo]

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

HUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR LOLOLOLOL

Don't sample your product before posting, Boy.

 

[mercury14]

Let's pull some flat tax bullshit to prop up more bleeding heart bullshit about how min wage workers CANT EVER AFFORD AN I PHONEE!!! BOOOOOOOOOO MOTHERFUKIN HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'll weep for them as I txt via Galaxy S3......

You're ascribing me positions I'm not taking. Positions that nobody is taking.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FxwsMB3UU8o/TT84QkbAQ3I/AAAAAAAAApk/u90y14VPqFw/s1600/StrawManI.jpg

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Let's pull some flat tax bullshit to prop up more bleeding heart bullshit about how min wage workers CANT EVER AFFORD AN I PHONEE!!! BOOOOOOOOOO MOTHERFUKIN HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'll weep for them as I txt via Galaxy S3......



http://hotpads.com/search#lat=40.78...ricing=false&loan=30,0.04,0&resultsPerQuad=32

I looked again...there are numerous places for people to live on that map...

even picked a spot just random click of the map...Louisville Ky

http://hotpads.com/rentals/118-28-1...0&includeVaguePricing=false&resultsPerQuad=24

Wouldn't you know there is a whole fucking SHITLOAD of them as is often the case. Like I said...you can find a shit shack for rent damn near anywhere....

And you're backpedaling even further.

Have you actually clicked on the link? If you did you would have found exactly what I told you 30 minutes ago. None of these are actual apartments. It's a closet, or a single room you share with 3 other people, or it is only available until Friday (literally, one of these ads expires on Friday). You also said there were "plenty of places", your link shows 4 places in NYC for the hundreds of thousands of people in NYC on min wage. That doesn't come anywhere close to proving your point.

 

[Squibbs]

We don't have that problem here in the US....7.25/ hr WILL feed/cloth/ shelter you.

What about a single mother or father?

Impossible.

 

[John Doe]

Our Republican governor and legislature vote like republicans and many of them are pretty far right. The elected officials in this state are way to the right of their constituents though and regularly get their policies stomped out by voter referendums.

The Democrats in this state vote like mainstream-to-moderate Dems but are completely incapable of generating a decent candidate for anything. We've got Sherrod Brown and pretty much that's it.

Horsefuck. There's a reason the rest of the country laughs at you during presidential elections.