What thinly-veiled hate, epitomized in one quote, looks like

[RoryN]

I am assuming this is the quote you are referring to "They can buy my stuff," said Klein. "I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine."

So explain how that equals hate?

Go study the history of Jim Crow America. It will become self-explanatory afterwards.

 

[muffguy]

I see.

May I request that you go find a different forum, then. Perhaps Stormfront?



I suggest you examine the law that I've already posted twice.

because I don't agree with you? Let's face it .....thats what you really want in the end...... I'm saying it's wrong to take anyway peoples choices. the gays get their choice, the shop owner also get to choose without having the government hold a knife to their throat.

 

[RoryN]

because I don't agree with you?

Why not? Simply go elsewhere.

That's your suggestion for the lesbians; why wouldn't it apply to you?

I'm saying it's wrong to take anyway peoples choices. the gays get their choice

Their choice was to buy a cake without being told they couldn't because they were lesbians. Did that happen?

What if they had been denied because they were men in the military? What if they'd been a heterosexual couple? Would you be complaining? Yes.

 

[blulilacgrl]

Go study the history of Jim Crow America. It will become self-explanatory afterwards.

No I am asking you to explain. Don't fob this off on me to understand your view without you specifically stating it. I am not going to assume what you mean. I want you to state it outright.

Is your contention that choosing not to work with someone constitutes hate. Not douchebaggery or stupidity but real honest to goodness hate

I happen to believe that you can make a choice on a political issue without hating the person on the other side.

Please explain how your thinking differs.

 

[RoryN]

No I am asking you to explain.

It's already been explained. Refusing to do business with someone because of their race / gender / sexual orientation goes beyond "making a choice on a political issue". It's a discriminatory action, and that is an indication of hate.

The statement "They can buy my stuff...I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine" is obvious contempt. If you can't see that, and how contempt = hate, then I can't help you, except to suggest that you study Jim Crow America and the very similar statements and actions of people in that time who openly hated minorities.

*shrug*

 

[IrezumiKiss]

No I am asking you to explain. Don't fob this off on me to understand your view without you specifically stating it. I am not going to assume what you mean. I want you to state it outright.

Is your contention that choosing not to work with someone constitutes hate. Not douchebaggery or stupidity but real honest to goodness hate

I happen to believe that you can make a choice on a political issue without hating the person on the other side.

Please explain how your thinking differs.

You don't call it hate when someone else denies you the rights and respect to be as fully human as they themselves are?

When only my money is perfectly good enough for everything you serve in that public shop except for one tiny exception that is offered up without thought to everyone else who isn't me?

That's not hate to you? Especially that

Enough with the excuses.

Discrimination is hate.

It is not just being a douche or an asshole or any other euphemism we use to describe a person and not the actualization of their beliefs.

What I think you are has zilch to do with the verity of what you actually do.

 

[muffguy]

Why not? Simply go elsewhere.

That's your suggestion for the lesbians; why wouldn't it apply to you?



Their choice was to buy a cake without being told they couldn't because they were lesbians. Did that happen?

What if they had been denied because they were men in the military? What if they'd been a heterosexual couple? Would you be complaining? Yes.

no I'm not self rightous, I just believe people should be able to make choices. If this shop owner goes out of business because word gets around ,so be it. And yes I could go elsewhere, my choice......until someone makes a law that says I can't ........

 

[muffguy]

no one has a right to a cake

 

[RjThoughts]

not saying i'm against gays getting married but why is it this shop owner has to bow to a segment of the population with whom he (or she) disagrees ? What happened to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" ? If that segment of the population does not like it don't patronize the business, not call the government to come beat the shop owner down. The government will never,ever be able to make everyone "equal"..... thats a pipe dream.

It's akin to refusing to sell wedding cakes to a BLACK couple, or a MIXED RACE couple. Both are NOT allowed in the Bible, which the owner used as his reasoning behind his refusal.

 

[RoryN]

I just believe people should be able to make choices.

The lesbian couple wasn't able to. But you're okay with that.

no one has a right to a cake

You're really not familiar with law, are you?

 

[RobDownSouth]

no I'm not self rightous, I just believe people should be able to make choices. If this shop owner goes out of business because word gets around ,so be it. And yes I could go elsewhere, my choice......until someone makes a law that says I can't ........

You can't discriminate against protected classes, jackwagon. No matter how much you really really really want to.

 

[blulilacgrl]

You don't call it hate when someone else denies you the rights and respect to be as fully human as they themselves are?

When only my money is perfectly good enough for everything you serve in that public shop except for one tiny exception that is offered up without thought to everyone else who isn't me?

That's not hate to you? Especially that

Enough with the excuses.

Discrimination is hate.

It is not just being a douche or an asshole or any other euphemism we use to describe a person and not the actualization of their beliefs.

What I think you are has zilch to do with the verity of what you actually do.

So not supporting gay marriage equals hating homosexuals?

 

[RjThoughts]

So not supporting gay marriage equals hating homosexuals?

Discriminating AGAINST the couple equates hating them.

 

[blulilacgrl]

Discriminating AGAINST the couple equates hating them.

So he can sell birthday cakes, graduation cakes, any type of cake to homosexuals, but because he refuses to make a wedding cake, he hates them. Maybe I misread the article or the quote. But I took that to mean that he chooses not to make wedding cakes for homosexuals, not that he refused all service.

And let us be clear. I am not agreeing with him or his beliefs. I am just saying that refusing to bake a wedding cake (not a refusal to sell any of his cakes, but just a wedding cake) because he doesn't believe in gay marriage is a shaky foundation for the idea that he hates homosexuals.

 

[RjThoughts]

So he can sell birthday cakes, graduation cakes, any type of cake to homosexuals, but because he refuses to make a wedding cake, he hates them. Maybe I misread the article or the quote. But I took that to mean that he chooses not to make wedding cakes for homosexuals, not that he refused all service.

And let us be clear. I am not agreeing with him or his beliefs. I am just saying that refusing to bake a wedding cake (not a refusal to sell any of his cakes, but just a wedding cake) because he doesn't believe in gay marriage is a shaky foundation for the idea that he hates homosexuals.

He discriminated. He did not provide a service, which he was going to do, until he learned it was for a same sex couple. When he did so, he broke a law.

People use the excuse, "I can't do it, because it's in the Bible," to HATE people. He did it.

 

[Cade Is Here]

where do you see HATE?

The OP is a well known racist here. He sees racism where no one else can. Plus he is still hurt over his last relationship where 1BiGuy dumped him.

 

[blulilacgrl]

He discriminated. He did not provide a service, which he was going to do, until he learned it was for a same sex couple. When he did so, he broke a law.

People use the excuse, "I can't do it, because it's in the Bible," to HATE people. He did it.

Wait...so if I believe that something is wrong because of a religious upbringing, then it follows that I hate people who participate in those activities?

It is obvious that he broke the law. Fine, fact. He refuses to sell a wedding cake (again any other cake he will sell, but a wedding cake he refuses because he feels it goes against his thoughts on a political issue) fine. But does it follow that he hates homosexuals? I just don't know if I agree.

Again I will agree that he's an idiot, that he should rethink the whole thing, but the idea that he hates? I just don't know.

 

[RoryN]

Wait...so if I believe that something is wrong because of a religious upbringing, then it follows that I hate people who participate in those activities?

It is obvious that he broke the law. Fine, fact. He refuses to sell a wedding cake (again any other cake he will sell, but a wedding cake he refuses because he feels it goes against his thoughts on a political issue) fine. But does it follow that he hates homosexuals? I just don't know if I agree.

Again I will agree that he's an idiot, that he should rethink the whole thing, but the idea that he hates? I just don't know.

Saying that he "hates" indicates that he's a bad person.

And he obviously is.

 

[RjThoughts]

Wait...so if I believe that something is wrong because of a religious upbringing, then it follows that I hate people who participate in those activities?

It is obvious that he broke the law. Fine, fact. He refuses to sell a wedding cake (again any other cake he will sell, but a wedding cake he refuses because he feels it goes against his thoughts on a political issue) fine. But does it follow that he hates homosexuals? I just don't know if I agree.

Again I will agree that he's an idiot, that he should rethink the whole thing, but the idea that he hates? I just don't know.

I see it as veiled hatred. I've seen it personally, with a cousin marrying her spouse last year, how some caterers were ALL for their business UNTIL the caterer discovered the couple were BOTH BRIDES. Attitudes changed. I sat in on one meeting and saw the disgust in this person's eyes.

They might not see it but it's hate nonetheless.

 

[gagginforit]

I think that's fair enough. I don't see why he should have to face charges. If he doesn't want to make something because he believes it violates his beliefs that's his business. And he was polite about it. It's not like he hurled abuse at them.

 

[RjThoughts]

I think that's fair enough. I don't see why he should have to face charges. If he doesn't want to make something because he believes it violates his beliefs that's his business. And he was polite about it. It's not like he hurled abuse at them.

Hiding behind religious beliefs is becoming tiresome. If you don't believe in same sex marriage because the Bible says so, then you best believe in having slaves, beating your daughters and wives, etc. Don't pick and choose what you believe in.

 

[phrodeau]

With a little imagination they could easily have tricked him into making their cake. They could just say that they need a lesbian wedding cake for an independent film that they're producing. He might have given them a discount in exchange for screen credit.

 

[KingOrfeo]

What happened to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" ?

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, I think.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Democracy is two wolves and a rabbit voting on what to have for lunch. Democracy is two wolves and a rabbit voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed rabbit preventing the vote from being enforced.

Actually, democracy is two rabbits and a wolf voting on what to have for lunch; because in real life, the rabbits outnumber the wolves, and that fact plus democracy, not small arms, is the only practical defense they've got. (Hint: The wolves, or "looters" if you prefer, are found mostly at the top of the socioeconomic pyramid, not the bottom; you might have been confused on that point as well.)

 

[Ham Murabi]

Really? I mean really? That's what you took from what I said? Where did I say they were the same? Okay for those of you who can't understand an argument... No I am not saying that depicting a group of white supremacists is the same as a gay couple.

I am trying to make the point that as a business owner, you have the right to decide who you will do business with. And you can choose to do this without hating the person. I don't hate anybody, but I certainly disagree with many and think they are misguided and pathetic.

Your point has been that a business owner has to accept any job no matter who is funding it. Or did I misunderstand your point?

You are making way too much sense.