The election is over, we see the contours of what lies ahead for the next four years.

[julybaby04]

You can't just sign up to be an american.

Nope.....agreed. It takes effort and work.

That might come as a surprise to some and it also may be why many choose to just be illegal. Why work for something when there is half a country that wants to hand you something for free (won't even get into the voting block here... )

 

[Recidiva]

I do not have a problem with ANYONE becoming a US Citizen legally. A great many have done this over the years. It is when those who come here illegally, expect to benefit from what everyone who is a citizen gets....that is an issue.

If it is such a great country...do it legally.....so very easy!!!!! If someone does not want to do that...there is probably a reason. Could be money, could be family...who knows? But, just because there is a reason, does not mean that it is still not illegal.

I can promise if I did not pay my taxes...just because I did not want to....the US government would be more than happy to track me down and force me to, along with a penalty. If I want to cash a check and just do not want to show my ID, I will not get my money.

There are rules....everyone (except those here illegally) must follow them or are punished. Just become legal. If they can't, then this country could be like Sweden....you don't come in unless you can pay for yourself or you bring something to contribute to the country. They don't allow takers. Their economy can't support it...and neither can ours.

You do not have to agree...I know you do not. But there is a GREAT divide. I do not agree with your view of the country and you do not agree with mine. There are many who agree with me...and many who agree with you. That divide is there.

I don't know how you got the idea that I don't know that people disagree. Trust me, I have noticed.

However, I do listen and I do understand and there are times when I realize I'm not seeing someone else's side and there are times when I see someone else's side and I think they're misguided at best and obstructive or destructive at worst.

I don't know you and I have had a decent conversation with you, so I really don't know where you fall on that scale, or why.

You speak the language of a person who does not believe in government at all and wants it to disappear, while using a computer hooked up to electrical infrastructure and having the spare time to argue about it.

I understand you, I just don't agree with you, nor do I think you're attempting to compromise, you're attempting to get yours. But what you're arguing over is "ours."

 

[Recidiva]

Nope.....agreed. It takes effort and work.

That might come as a surprise to some and it also may be why many choose to just be illegal. Why work for something when there is half a country that wants to hand you something for free (won't even get into the voting block here... )

"Something for free" will never be as good as something you can get for yourself. There are plenty people who do not want the scraps given away as subsistence assistance and work hard.

Let's not pretend the USA provides every person with a hangnail a comfortable living, please.

 

[mercury14]

Nope.....agreed. It takes effort and work.

That might come as a surprise to some and it also may be why many choose to just be illegal. Why work for something when there is half a country that wants to hand you something for free (won't even get into the voting block here... )

It has little to do with work.

 

[Recidiva]

It was a hypothetical. You just seem to want them all welcomed with open arms......

Perhaps those who have gone about becoming US Citizens legally would have a differing opinion than just open up and let them in. It means more to those who had to work for it.....as does most things.

Yes, I would like people with no security risk to be welcomed with open arms.

 

[cjh]

Nope.....agreed. It takes effort and work.

That might come as a surprise to some and it also may be why many choose to just be illegal. Why work for something when there is half a country that wants to hand you something for free (won't even get into the voting block here... )

July, as I read your comments in this thread I am reminded of why I lost my faith in organized religion.

 

[julybaby04]

I don't know how you got the idea that I don't know that people disagree. Trust me, I have noticed.

However, I do listen and I do understand and there are times when I realize I'm not seeing someone else's side and there are times when I see someone else's side and I think they're misguided at best and obstructive or destructive at worst.

I don't know you and I have had a decent conversation with you, so I really don't know where you fall on that scale, or why.

You speak the language of a person who does not believe in government at all and wants it to disappear, while using a computer hooked up to electrical infrastructure and having the spare time to argue about it.

I understand you, I just don't agree with you, nor do I think you're attempting to compromise, you're attempting to get yours. But what you're arguing over is "ours."

I do not want to disappear. I love this country, very much. I just do not want to work so hard for it to be taken away because "others" need it more....or it is just not "fair" that I might have more than someone else.

Life is difficult for most people. Just because there is the perception that they are doing ok....that is not always the truth. I know there are people who are suffering and hurting.....I help them on my own time and where I can.

I do not know you either...and yes, the conversations have been fine. But as you see me a certain way, I see you in a way as well. You speak of a socialistic society where everyone has everything they need, no military, and every lives in peace, holding hands and singing together.

In order to live in the idealistic world...someone has to pay for it. To expect everyone else to give ...just a bit more....is a rather selfish view in my opinion.

Why not let those who choose to work, live as they wish...pay their required taxes to support the things we all use....ie, roads, police, fire, hospitals..etc....but not keep asking for more. Everyone needs to contribute.

 

[julybaby04]

July, as I read your comments in this thread I am reminded of why I lost my faith in organized religion.

That is between you and God......

 

[Ishmael]

Uninsured people using emergency rooms as primary care is the absolute stupidest, most expensive, least efficient way to run a health care system. The new way is better.

OK.

Are we going to run the illegals out of the country or insure them?

Ishmael

 

[julybaby04]

"Something for free" will never be as good as something you can get for yourself. There are plenty people who do not want the scraps given away as subsistence assistance and work hard.

Let's not pretend the USA provides every person with a hangnail a comfortable living, please.

Let's also not pretend that people in the US voted for Obama because they thought there were freebies to be had.

There are many who care nothing about working for something......don't fool yourself.

 

[julybaby04]

Yes, I would like people with no security risk to be welcomed with open arms.

And you will no there is no risk...how?

 

[Recidiva]

I do not want to disappear. I love this country, very much. I just do not want to work so hard for it to be taken away because "others" need it more....or it is just not "fair" that I might have more than someone else.

Life is difficult for most people. Just because there is the perception that they are doing ok....that is not always the truth. I know there are people who are suffering and hurting.....I help them on my own time and where I can.

I do not know you either...and yes, the conversations have been fine. But as you see me a certain way, I see you in a way as well. You speak of a socialistic society where everyone has everything they need, no military, and every lives in peace, holding hands and singing together.

In order to live in the idealistic world...someone has to pay for it. To expect everyone else to give ...just a bit more....is a rather selfish view in my opinion.

Why not let those who choose to work, live as they wish...pay their required taxes to support the things we all use....ie, roads, police, fire, hospitals..etc....but not keep asking for more. Everyone needs to contribute.

I don't understand what you mean when you say you don't want to disappear. It seems like you're hitting some sort of metaphor that I don't want to discount but I won't pretend to understand.

I would just encourage you to not make your choices out of fear. Your tax money is not your soul or your essence. Yes, that may be Un-American, but it's really true. There's so much more to people than their bank account, and money can be replaced. Be generous of spirit and make more than you need and give back what you can. Work harder than you think you should have to. That's the essence of parenting, that's the essence of being a citizen.

Life is much harder than most people give credit, mostly due to the huge amounts of denial required to continue to draw breath in a world of so much suffering.

I speak of what I believe will work if we take the fear and the selfishness out of the equation and open up that wall of denial to what it means to be human and to suffer.

It's the way I raise my children, the way I work for my company, the way I want to lead my life.

It's what I strive to do in a day, because it's important. I don't choose out of fear.

Except for sharks. Fuck that. I am not going body surfing.

Not everyone can contribute. But my kids shouldn't be strangled to death because they don't contribute to society yet. (Not that I haven't wanted to at times...) Some people will never be able to give back, but those are the people who should make the healthy realize how lucky they have it and how low the price is to pay in cash instead of pain. What really matters is that you stop contracting out of the fear of "I just can't do it" and spread your wings a bit more.

 

[Recidiva]

And you will no there is no risk...how?

Right now the system is so snarled and ridiculously

Check criminal records. We will miss some. But we grow criminals here anyway. It's not like Americans are born ideal. We have prisons here too.

"Have you blown stuff up lately? No? Good. Let me check your records of your home country. No record. Good. Welcome to America!"

I'm sure there will be a few forms and documentation, but really, the system we have now is choked with obstructive dumb that doesn't serve anyone's interests except isolationists.

 

[Exquisition]

I do not want to disappear. I love this country, very much. I just do not want to work so hard for it to be taken away because "others" need it more....or it is just not "fair" that I might have more than someone else.

Life is difficult for most people. Just because there is the perception that they are doing ok....that is not always the truth. I know there are people who are suffering and hurting.....I help them on my own time and where I can.

I do not know you either...and yes, the conversations have been fine. But as you see me a certain way, I see you in a way as well. You speak of a socialistic society where everyone has everything they need, no military, and every lives in peace, holding hands and singing together.

In order to live in the idealistic world...someone has to pay for it. To expect everyone else to give ...just a bit more....is a rather selfish view in my opinion.

Why not let those who choose to work, live as they wish...pay their required taxes to support the things we all use....ie, roads, police, fire, hospitals..etc....but not keep asking for more. Everyone needs to contribute.

JulyBaby, is this what your pastor preaches in your wonderful church these days?

Guess they do say that religion is the last resort of the weak?

Where's the charity? The Good Samaritan? The Good you're supposed to suck up from the great book and preach to anyone who'll listen?

If you were an ad for Christianity, I'd be thinking it was a cultish belief predicated on hatred for your fellow man, false economics and xenophobia.

 

[mercury14]

OK.

Are we going to run the illegals out of the country or insure them?

Ishmael

No we're not going to run too many out. We're not going to insure them in the short term but we'll pay for their care whether they're insured or not.

 

[SBroadB9]

I do not want to disappear. I love this country, very much. I just do not want to work so hard for it to be taken away because "others" need it more....or it is just not "fair" that I might have more than someone else.

Life is difficult for most people. Just because there is the perception that they are doing ok....that is not always the truth. I know there are people who are suffering and hurting.....I help them on my own time and where I can.

I do not know you either...and yes, the conversations have been fine. But as you see me a certain way, I see you in a way as well. You speak of a socialistic society where everyone has everything they need, no military, and every lives in peace, holding hands and singing together.

In order to live in the idealistic world...someone has to pay for it. To expect everyone else to give ...just a bit more....is a rather selfish view in my opinion.

Why not let those who choose to work, live as they wish...pay their required taxes to support the things we all use....ie, roads, police, fire, hospitals..etc....but not keep asking for more. Everyone needs to contribute.

Breaking my rule a bit here. We've lost. The good, hardworking people of this country seem to be in the minority now, only if by a little. But, demographics are against us.

All this talk about "fairness" is just pie in the sky wishful thinking. I suppose "Animal Farm" is no longer required reading, huh?

All we can do is hide away as manyof our assets as possible. They are coming after the IRAs, and the 401(k)s, for sure. But, what they don't know we have, they can't get. And, of course we can take steps to protect our physical assets, while the Second Amendment is still in force.

 

[mercury14]

Let's also not pretend that people in the US voted for Obama because they thought there were freebies to be had.

There are many who care nothing about working for something......don't fool yourself.

What freebies? The freebies are the same now as in the Bush years.

 

[julybaby04]

I don't understand what you mean when you say you don't want to disappear. It seems like you're hitting some sort of metaphor that I don't want to discount but I won't pretend to understand.

I would just encourage you to not make your choices out of fear. Your tax money is not your soul or your essence. Yes, that may be Un-American, but it's really true. There's so much more to people than their bank account, and money can be replaced. Be generous of spirit and make more than you need and give back what you can. Work harder than you think you should have to. That's the essence of parenting, that's the essence of being a citizen.

Life is much harder than most people give credit, mostly due to the huge amounts of denial required to continue to draw breath in a world of so much suffering.

I speak of what I believe will work if we take the fear and the selfishness out of the equation and open up that wall of denial to what it means to be human and to suffer.

It's the way I raise my children, the way I work for my company, the way I want to lead my life.

It's what I strive to do in a day, because it's important. I don't choose out of fear.

Except for sharks. Fuck that. I am not going body surfing.

Not everyone can contribute. But my kids shouldn't be strangled to death because they don't contribute to society yet. (Not that I haven't wanted to at times...) Some people will never be able to give back, but those are the people who should make the healthy realize how lucky they have it and how low the price is to pay in cash instead of pain. What really matters is that you stop contracting out of the fear of "I just can't do it" and spread your wings a bit more.

Sorry...I read what you spoke about disappearing wrong. You were speaking of the government and I thought you were speaking of me. (that is where the comment came from).

As far as most of what you said, you truly do no know me. If you did, the words about what is important to me would have not echoed what you wrote. I do not lay out my life on here, as most just make fun of it because I am conservative...and even worse...a follower of Christ. I know very well what is important. I know that money comes and goes and the value of hard work. I know what matters here and what will matter in eternity. I know who my God is and I can guarantee it is not money.

Money, however, is needed to live on this earth. My concern and opposing views that you have center around the fact that government is not all-knowing and all-benefitting everyone in the US. The party that is in "charge" rules as their values dictate. The ruling party has no where near the values that mirror mine. In that, the things the government does that impacts my life in a bad way will be met with resentment.

My life goes on with what is important and truly matters to me. I have a family to raise and I have things I want to do and things I want to give my time to. I post here (while doing the things that I need to do) as a voice that is not in resounding "amen" with the liberal voices on here. There is another opinion...whether people like it or not.

I appreciate that you have found the way that works for you and that you are passionate about what matters in your life. We are all different. I will support that which matters to me and will argue and dislike that which does not.

 

[julybaby04]

Breaking my rule a bit here. We've lost. The good, hardworking people of this country seem to be in the minority now, only if by a little. But, demographics are against us.

All this talk about "fairness" is just pie in the sky wishful thinking. I suppose "Animal Farm" is no longer required reading, huh?

All we can do is hide away as manyof our assets as possible. They are coming after the IRAs, and the 401(k)s, for sure. But, what they don't know we have, they can't get. And, of course we can take steps to protect our physical assets, while the Second Amendment is still in force.

Agreed.

 

[julybaby04]

Right now the system is so snarled and ridiculously

Check criminal records. We will miss some. But we grow criminals here anyway. It's not like Americans are born ideal. We have prisons here too.

"Have you blown stuff up lately? No? Good. Let me check your records of your home country. No record. Good. Welcome to America!"

I'm sure there will be a few forms and documentation, but really, the system we have now is choked with obstructive dumb that doesn't serve anyone's interests except isolationists.

I suppose that is one way......

 

[julybaby04]

JulyBaby, is this what your pastor preaches in your wonderful church these days?

Guess they do say that religion is the last resort of the weak?

Where's the charity? The Good Samaritan? The Good you're supposed to suck up from the great book and preach to anyone who'll listen?

If you were an ad for Christianity, I'd be thinking it was a cultish belief predicated on hatred for your fellow man, false economics and xenophobia.

...and you do not know me.....nor will you ever.

There is no need to know about me as you have your own liberal colored glasses which can only see that which agrees with you.

I do feel so very sorry for you. It must be hard to live with such anger and hatred toward people who you truly do not know.

Praying for you!

 

[Recidiva]

Sorry...I read what you spoke about disappearing wrong. You were speaking of the government and I thought you were speaking of me. (that is where the comment came from).

As far as most of what you said, you truly do no know me. If you did, the words about what is important to me would have not echoed what you wrote. I do not lay out my life on here, as most just make fun of it because I am conservative...and even worse...a follower of Christ. I know very well what is important. I know that money comes and goes and the value of hard work. I know what matters here and what will matter in eternity. I know who my God is and I can guarantee it is not money.

Money, however, is needed to live on this earth. My concern and opposing views that you have center around the fact that government is not all-knowing and all-benefitting everyone in the US. The party that is in "charge" rules as their values dictate. The ruling party has no where near the values that mirror mine. In that, the things the government does that impacts my life in a bad way will be met with resentment.

My life goes on with what is important and truly matters to me. I have a family to raise and I have things I want to do and things I want to give my time to. I post here (while doing the things that I need to do) as a voice that is not in resounding "amen" with the liberal voices on here. There is another opinion...whether people like it or not.

I appreciate that you have found the way that works for you and that you are passionate about what matters in your life. We are all different. I will support that which matters to me and will argue and dislike that which does not.

Aha. Okay, mystery solved. Glad I didn't do any analysis on a misunderstanding. That's always embarrassing.

Cool. I just made pasta with excellent tomatoes and mozzerella and a fresh batch of iced tea. I don't take too much time out of my day to argue. I have video games to play and TV to watch and I'm done with working, I don't have a migraine and that makes a good day. I just got through a hurricane, having electricity and spare time and not worrying is something I should enjoy.

 

[julybaby04]

No we're not going to run too many out. We're not going to insure them in the short term but we'll pay for their care whether they're insured or not.

...as we do with any person who needs medical care...insured or not (unless it is a private hospital....I guess they can choose who they see....is that right?)

 

[Exquisition]

...and you do not know me.....nor will you ever.

There is no need to know about me as you have your own liberal colored glasses which can only see that which agrees with you.

I do feel so very sorry for you. It must be hard to live with such anger and hatred toward people who you truly do not know.

Praying for you!

I have absolutely no desire to know you. Just making an observation on your callousness as a Christian.

You are actually an atheist convert's dream

 

[julybaby04]

Aha. Okay, mystery solved. Glad I didn't do any analysis on a misunderstanding. That's always embarrassing.

Cool. I just made pasta with excellent tomatoes and mozzerella and a fresh batch of iced tea. I don't take too much time out of my day to argue. I have video games to play and TV to watch and I'm done with working, I don't have a migraine and that makes a good day. I just got through a hurricane, having electricity and spare time and not worrying is something I should enjoy.

Glad you feel good and you are safe!