The election is over, we see the contours of what lies ahead for the next four years.

[Recidiva]

We give Taliban prisoners medical care... But we shouldn't care for a Mexican in California picking lettuce to feed his family?

Things are fairly simple when you realize that suffering is suffering whatever the source, nationality or language.

Nobody gets critically ill on purpose to game the system. Okay, Munchausen sufferers get critically ill on purpose to game the system...

We see how quickly it gets more complicated when we start categorizing, dehumanizing, classifying and marginalizing people out of their right to geography-based compassion.

I just reject the idea that compassion itself should become a dirty word and a dirty state of being. I know for a fact we have enough money to care for people if we'd stop being dicks about it.

 

[julybaby04]

I would like to be a great nation. If we had succeeded enough to make people want to come here and being treated like a second-class citizen is better than their prospects in their country as a first class citizen, that's a problem of catastrophic success.

It's not a terribly bad problem to have, I just think that a great nation would treat people as people, regardless of nationality, and not turn away someone because of their paperwork.

The reality is that we could trim the defense budget and cover the medical issues, school reform and infrastructure without making that much of a dent.

Again, we have two different schools of thought.

This is why the nation is split in two. Half would see what you propose as making this a great nation. The other half would disagree.

People are people...agreed. But there is no country that can sustain itself when it is required to support people who are here illegally and do not pay anything to help keep this country functioning. If those illegals are taken care of, regardless of paperwork as you suggest, and do not pay any taxes in....then yet again, we are back to those who work, are honest about their work and pay their taxes...are the ones 'forced" to pay for the illegals.

The country cannot support itself that way. If the illegals want to be here...do it legally.....as many many have done before them. There is a way, they just choose to not do it.

 

[julybaby04]

Things are fairly simple when you realize that suffering is suffering whatever the source, nationality or language.

Nobody gets critically ill on purpose to game the system. Okay, Munchausen sufferers get critically ill on purpose to game the system...

We see how quickly it gets more complicated when we start categorizing, dehumanizing, classifying and marginalizing people out of their right to geography-based compassion.

I just reject the idea that compassion itself should become a dirty word and a dirty state of being. I know for a fact we have enough money to care for people if we'd stop being dicks about it.

It has to be PAID for! That is the bottom line. Compassion only goes so far as the money goes.

You want utopia....that does not exist. Just be legal...do it right......contribute to the economy.....benefit from those contributions. That is not unfair....it is just workable and honest.

 

[julybaby04]

We give Taliban prisoners medical care... But we shouldn't care for a Mexican in California picking lettuce to feed his family?

If he is here legally...yes. If illegal...no.

 

[Recidiva]

Again, we have two different schools of thought.

This is why the nation is split in two. Half would see what you propose as making this a great nation. The other half would disagree.

People are people...agreed. But there is no country that can sustain itself when it is required to support people who are here illegally and do not pay anything to help keep this country functioning. If those illegals are taken care of, regardless of paperwork as you suggest, and do not pay any taxes in....then yet again, we are back to those who work, are honest about their work and pay their taxes...are the ones 'forced" to pay for the illegals.

The country cannot support itself that way. If the illegals want to be here...do it legally.....as many many have done before them. There is a way, they just choose to not do it.

We're not as split as all that, because everyone gets sick and dies at some point. It is a universal need. Some people don't know it yet.

We haven't tried. We've certainly managed with them "sapping the system" - how about we admit them, tax them and make them part of the system without the arbitrary quotas?

 

[mercury14]

Again, we have two different schools of thought.

This is why the nation is split in two. Half would see what you propose as making this a great nation. The other half would disagree.

People are people...agreed. But there is no country that can sustain itself when it is required to support people who are here illegally and do not pay anything to help keep this country functioning. If those illegals are taken care of, regardless of paperwork as you suggest, and do not pay any taxes in....then yet again, we are back to those who work, are honest about their work and pay their taxes...are the ones 'forced" to pay for the illegals.

The country cannot support itself that way. If the illegals want to be here...do it legally.....as many many have done before them. There is a way, they just choose to not do it.

Medical facilities will always help sick or injured illegals because they're ethical. How do you propose to change this?

 

[Recidiva]

It has to be PAID for! That is the bottom line. Compassion only goes so far as the money goes.

You want utopia....that does not exist. Just be legal...do it right......contribute to the economy.....benefit from those contributions. That is not unfair....it is just workable and honest.

So be realistic about it. Allow more people into the country. Quit with the fear and alienation and horror about "furriners" and let them into the system. The country has thrived on the basis of hard work and new blood coming into the country from other traditions and ambitions.

I don't want utopia, I just don't want to be a xenophobic fuckup.

 

[Recidiva]

Medical facilities will always help sick or injured illegals because they're ethical. How do you propose to change this?

"First, do no harm."

I'm afraid that yes, turning away a person who just had their leg ripped off by a combine harvester because he has a funny last name is...in fact...harm.

 

[zipman]

Compassion only goes so far as the money goes.

I'm sure all the people who volunteer their services for those less fortunate would disagree with you.

Strongly.

 

[mercury14]

If he is here legally...yes. If illegal...no.

So going back to my example, when an illegal brings her 8 year old daughter into an emergency room in after being raped, bleeding and in excruciating pain, needing surgery, you'd have her removed from the hospital without care?

 

[Exquisition]

Things are fairly simple when you realize that suffering is suffering whatever the source, nationality or language.

Nobody gets critically ill on purpose to game the system. Okay, Munchausen sufferers get critically ill on purpose to game the system...

We see how quickly it gets more complicated when we start categorizing, dehumanizing, classifying and marginalizing people out of their right to geography-based compassion.

I just reject the idea that compassion itself should become a dirty word and a dirty state of being. I know for a fact we have enough money to care for people if we'd stop being dicks about it.

Pure gold. You get an A+ for wisdom.

 

[Recidiva]

So going back to my example, when an illegal brings her 8 year old daughter into an emergency room in after being raped, bleeding and in excruciating pain, needing surgery, you'd have her removed from the hospital without care?

*buzzer* Harm! Definitely harm!

 

[julybaby04]

Medical facilities will always help sick or injured illegals because they're ethical. How do you propose to change this?

Make them legal.....

...how about this hypothetical.......

If an illegal comes in for treatment, make them fill out the papers at the hospital. If nothing else, the process has begun.

I know, ...I know.... I am sure some bad things could happen, etc....but at least it is an idea. If they become legal, they stay here, start paying taxes....start helping.

...just a thought.

 

[Recidiva]

Pure gold. You get an A+ for wisdom.

Thank you. Those freaking Munchausen people mess up the curve and my metaphor though.

Bastards.

 

[julybaby04]

I'm sure all the people who volunteer their services for those less fortunate would disagree with you.

Strongly.

...was not talking about work being done. We were talking about healthcare....that requires money.

 

[Exquisition]

So be realistic about it. Allow more people into the country. Quit with the fear and alienation and horror about "furriners" and let them into the system. The country has thrived on the basis of hard work and new blood coming into the country from other traditions and ambitions.

I don't want utopia, I just don't want to be a xenophobic fuckup.

Shge wouldn't get the irony that's she's from immgrant stock, Recidiva. I wouldn't go there or bother tbh.

The power of irony tends to diminish the further under the 100 IQ point barrier you go.

 

[Recidiva]

Make them legal.....

...how about this hypothetical.......

If an illegal comes in for treatment, make them fill out the papers at the hospital. If nothing else, the process has begun.

I know, ...I know.... I am sure some bad things could happen, etc....but at least it is an idea. If they become legal, they stay here, start paying taxes....start helping.

...just a thought.

Which process? "Hey, this illegal guy was dumb enough to fill out papers and leave their address."

First...make it easier to enter the country.

Then they can fill out papers at the border and hopefully not get a job where they're treated like animals and have no recourse to law or medicine.

 

[mercury14]

Make them legal.....

...how about this hypothetical.......

If an illegal comes in for treatment, make them fill out the papers at the hospital. If nothing else, the process has begun.

I know, ...I know.... I am sure some bad things could happen, etc....but at least it is an idea. If they become legal, they stay here, start paying taxes....start helping.

...just a thought.

Not sure where to begin with this absurdity.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I just reject the idea that compassion itself should become a dirty word and a dirty state of being. I know for a fact we have enough money to care for people if we'd stop being dicks about it.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgt24tAoO1r1p36d.gif

So be realistic about it. Allow more people into the country. Quit with the fear and alienation and horror about "furriners" and let them into the system. The country has thrived on the basis of hard work and new blood coming into the country from other traditions and ambitions.

I don't want utopia, I just don't want to be a xenophobic fuckup.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meski5a9T61qg1lsq.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meukt1vBx61r0dbsj.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m85bw9fGtf1rqfhi2o1_500.gif

Eternally shipping this. So glad you're posting here again, for however long you'll be staying.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_metyebH3kg1qzzm3z.gif

 

[julybaby04]

So be realistic about it. Allow more people into the country. Quit with the fear and alienation and horror about "furriners" and let them into the system. The country has thrived on the basis of hard work and new blood coming into the country from other traditions and ambitions.

I don't want utopia, I just don't want to be a xenophobic fuckup.

I do not have a problem with ANYONE becoming a US Citizen legally. A great many have done this over the years. It is when those who come here illegally, expect to benefit from what everyone who is a citizen gets....that is an issue.

If it is such a great country...do it legally.....so very easy!!!!! If someone does not want to do that...there is probably a reason. Could be money, could be family...who knows? But, just because there is a reason, does not mean that it is still not illegal.

I can promise if I did not pay my taxes...just because I did not want to....the US government would be more than happy to track me down and force me to, along with a penalty. If I want to cash a check and just do not want to show my ID, I will not get my money.

There are rules....everyone (except those here illegally) must follow them or are punished. Just become legal. If they can't, then this country could be like Sweden....you don't come in unless you can pay for yourself or you bring something to contribute to the country. They don't allow takers. Their economy can't support it...and neither can ours.

You do not have to agree...I know you do not. But there is a GREAT divide. I do not agree with your view of the country and you do not agree with mine. There are many who agree with me...and many who agree with you. That divide is there.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Compassion only goes so far as the money goes.

Is that what you learn in church every Sunday?

So going back to my example, when an illegal brings her 8 year old daughter into an emergency room in after being raped, bleeding and in excruciating pain, needing surgery, you'd have her removed from the hospital without care?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5fcyhGkT51r3zat8.gif

Stop giving her examples based on logic and verity that's she's not ready to deal with yet, Merc. That's so not compassionate of you.

 

[julybaby04]

Which process? "Hey, this illegal guy was dumb enough to fill out papers and leave their address."

First...make it easier to enter the country.

Then they can fill out papers at the border and hopefully not get a job where they're treated like animals and have no recourse to law or medicine.

It was a hypothetical. You just seem to want them all welcomed with open arms......

Perhaps those who have gone about becoming US Citizens legally would have a differing opinion than just open up and let them in. It means more to those who had to work for it.....as does most things.

 

[Recidiva]

Eternally shipping this. So glad you're posting here again, for however long you'll be staying.

Thank you! Hopefully my life won't undergo the biggest upheaval in 15 years. Hopefully. If I can just get past the Maya thing tomorrow, smooth sailing!

Good to see you!

 

[julybaby04]

Not sure where to begin with this absurdity.

It was a hypothetical.......

It was an idea....nothing more than that.

What would your idea be?

 

[mercury14]

I do not have a problem with ANYONE becoming a US Citizen legally. A great many have done this over the years. It is when those who come here illegally, expect to benefit from what everyone who is a citizen gets....that is an issue.

If it is such a great country...do it legally.....so very easy!!!!! If someone does not want to do that...there is probably a reason. Could be money, could be family...who knows? But, just because there is a reason, does not mean that it is still not illegal.

I can promise if I did not pay my taxes...just because I did not want to....the US government would be more than happy to track me down and force me to, along with a penalty. If I want to cash a check and just do not want to show my ID, I will not get my money.

There are rules....everyone (except those here illegally) must follow them or are punished. Just become legal. If they can't, then this country could be like Sweden....you don't come in unless you can pay for yourself or you bring something to contribute to the country. They don't allow takers. Their economy can't support it...and neither can ours.

You do not have to agree...I know you do not. But there is a GREAT divide. I do not agree with your view of the country and you do not agree with mine. There are many who agree with me...and many who agree with you. That divide is there.

You can't just sign up to be an american.