Feminism & Smut

[SevenSquared]

What I have always found interesting and annoying in equal measure is the apparent disconnect between feminism and feminists.

Over the years I have got to know plenty of women who really embody what feminism is supposed to be about - they are strong, confident and independent with good careers. But on the whole these women have been largely uninterested in the subject of feminism. On the other hand, the women I have met that openly support feminism and wear it as part of their identity tend to just be angry, bitter, over-sensitive misandrists. It is this latter group that men (see TE999) often seem to associate with feminism, which probably leads to a lot of unfair criticism of it as a whole.

 

[Kurokami]

To be honest, I grappled with this idea that I'm betraying my equal rights ideals by writing noncon fucking, but I swiftly came to the conclusion that I don't have to care about that any more than I do about whether I'm betraying my ideals by being dominant in the bedroom sometimes. My desires are completely divorced from my politics; what I like in the bedroom need not define how I treat women in my day to day, nor does the content of my prose.

Besides that, I tend to subscribe to the concept that feminist characters can exist even in politically incorrect works, provided that they're interesting and fleshed out, and not just sex dolls. I believe this has been said before in this thread, but I don't even see that as a particularly feminist action: it's my obligation as a writer to write my female characters as fully functional human beings, that's just good characterization. Anything especially feminist- by that definition- that comes out is merely a byproduct of my desire to write characters that are interesting regardless of gender.

So yeah, there are a number of women in my stories that are in submissive positions, sometimes not by choice, but I try to make them all distinct and fleshed out. That's really all I can do.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

What I have always found interesting and annoying in equal measure is the apparent disconnect between feminism and feminists.

Over the years I have got to know plenty of women who really embody what feminism is supposed to be about - they are strong, confident and independent with good careers. But on the whole these women have been largely uninterested in the subject of feminism. On the other hand, the women I have met that openly support feminism and wear it as part of their identity tend to just be angry, bitter, over-sensitive misandrists. It is this latter group that men (see TE999) often seem to associate with feminism, which probably leads to a lot of unfair criticism of it as a whole.

If I hear the phrase "I'm not a feminist, but--" One more time, I'm going to be sick.

I do know exactly one feminist like you describe. She's my cousin. She's just a very cruel person all around, being very rude and cruel to her mother (who is always trying to be nice to her) and being cruel to anyone who doesn't perfectly accept her lifestyle or whatever new rules she's put on us. Now she wants us to call her 'Ro' instead of her real name and she'll beat you into the ground with her tongue if you make a mistake.

Feminists like that make it impossible to move forward. It cheapens us as a whole. It makes people not take us seriously.

You are a feminist if you believe that women should have equal rights. You are a feminist if you dislike the unequal way women are treated in the media, the workforce, etc. You are a feminist simply, if you love women, and want them to excel.

I hate the phrase."I'm not a feminist, but--" If you ever say that, you are a feminist, but you're scared to say that you're one in fear of appearing unfeminine. Or emasculated, if you're a guy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A lot of feminist appear uninterested in the subject of feminism. The problem is explaining the 101 stuff over and over again. It gets tiring. If you really want to discuss feminism with a successful person who happens to be female, it would behove you to do a little self-education for her sake. Google is your textbook.

@cruel2beKind, Why should a woman who is angry and bitter, even a nut-- NOT be a feminist? "Feminist" is not a synonym for saint, diplomat, extra-super-duper wise woman. "feminist" is, simply someone who feels that women are not treated equally in this society. To blame people like her for people not taking seriously is ridiculous. People don't take feminism seriously because they have a vested interest in not doing so. They might point at "cruel" women as their reason but there ALWAYS be something else for them to point at if she wasn't handy.

Also-- celexa seems to help with anger issues...

 

[Cruel2BKind]

A lot of feminist appear uninterested in the subject of feminism. The problem is explaining the 101 stuff over and over again. It gets tiring. If you really want to discuss feminism with a successful person who happens to be female, it would behove you to do a little self-education for her sake. Google is your textbook.

@cruel2beKind, Why should a woman who is angry and bitter, even a nut-- NOT be a feminist? "Feminist" is not a synonym for saint, diplomat, extra-super-duper wise woman. "feminist" is, simply someone who feels that women are not treated equally in this society. To blame people like her for people not taking seriously is ridiculous. People don't take feminism seriously because they have a vested interest in not doing so. They might point at "cruel" women as their reason but there ALWAYS be something else for them to point at if she wasn't handy.

Also-- celexa seems to help with anger issues...

Never said my cousin wasn't a feminist. I said she was a cruel bitch that makes it harder to move forward. And that she is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Never said my cousin wasn't a feminist. I said she was a cruel bitch that makes it harder to move forward. And that she is.

Ah, true, you said "feminists like her." My bad.

 

[Bramblethorn]

On the other hand, the women I have met that openly support feminism and wear it as part of their identity tend to just be angry, bitter, over-sensitive misandrists. It is this latter group that men (see TE999) often seem to associate with feminism, which probably leads to a lot of unfair criticism of it as a whole.

Some things are worth being angry about. Anger is an entirely appropriate response to something like death of Savita Halappanavar; it's what drives people to stand up and fight for change. Unfortunately, it's seen as "unwomanly" - righteous anger in a man is bitterness and oversensitivity in a woman.

(And yeah, there are also genuinely bitter and over-sensitive feminists, because feminism doesn't perfect people, and because some experiences would make ANYBODY bitter and prickly.)

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Polarized against your Leftist tripe, fuckin-A right I am. Say hi to the opposition party. Nancy.



Ohhh, someone with a different point of view than yours? Well, shut him right up. You and your ilk are a bunch of fucking hypocrites. Free speech is ok as long as you agree with it. Go trim your nails and take a horse trank, sparky.

And we're right back to the GOP playbook.

Step 1: Say something offensive.

Step 2: Disavow offensive statement.

Step 3: Say something even more offensive while explaining away the "intent" behind the first offensive statement.

No wonder they have become the party of old angry white men.

 

[TE999]

And we're right back to the GOP playbook.

Step 1: Say something offensive.

Step 2: Disavow offensive statement.

Step 3: Say something even more offensive while explaining away the "intent" behind the first offensive statement.

No wonder they have become the party of old angry white men.

Allow me to state a few things one more time so even someone of your limited cognitive abilities can understand it:

I am a Libertarian, not a Republican, so stop designating me as one. It makes you seem more ignorant than you probably are.

I am a fiscal Conservative and a Social moderate.

I believe in Capitalism and Free Markets, not Socialism and the Nanny State.

I don't suffer fools gladly and I despise hypocrisy which all you Liberals seem to possess in abundance. You'll hear from me if I see it in action.

Too bad if you don't like old White males; maybe you should move to some garden spot like Uganda or Newark, there aren't any of of us there.

Opposition parties like the GOP are a part of America's two party system, so get used to it. If you prefer a dictatorship of course, feel free to move to countries with that form of government. Don't be surprised if you're thrown in jail or shot the first time you run your mouth, though. Dictatorships are like that.

I call 'em as I see 'em and I love scathing satire; especially where do-gooder, bleeding heart, Guilty White Liberals are concerned with all their self-loathing comments on all things American.

I'll be around awhile, keeping an eye on you candy asses and calling you out if I'm in the mood; any attack on my opinions will result in a counter attack which you may not like, I don't care.

Have an ordinary day.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Allow me to state a few things one more time so even someone of your limited cognitive abilities can understand it:

I am a Libertarian, not a Republican, so stop designating me as one. It makes you seem more ignorant than you probably are.

I am a fiscal Conservative and a Social moderate.

I believe in Capitalism and Free Markets, not Socialism and the Nanny State.

I don't suffer fools gladly and I despise hypocrisy which all you Liberals seem to possess in abundance. You'll hear from me if I see it in action.

Too bad if you don't like old White males; maybe you should move to some garden spot like Uganda or Newark, there aren't any of of us there.

Opposition parties like the GOP are a part of America's two party system, so get used to it. If you prefer a dictatorship of course, feel free to move to countries with that form of government. Don't be surprised if you're thrown in jail or shot the first time you run your mouth, though. Dictatorships are like that.

I call 'em as I see 'em and I love scathing satire; especially where do-gooder, bleeding heart, Guilty White Liberals are concerned with all their self-loathing comments on all things American.

I'll be around awhile, keeping an eye on you candy asses and calling you out if I'm in the mood; any attack on my opinions will result in a counter attack which you may not like, I don't care.

Have an ordinary day.

A walking, talking cliche'.

 

[sr71plt]

And he posts about other people being angry and/or annoyed.

 

[Arlan]

To be honest, I grappled with this idea that I'm betraying my equal rights ideals by writing noncon fucking, but I swiftly came to the conclusion that I don't have to care about that any more than I do about whether I'm betraying my ideals by being dominant in the bedroom sometimes. My desires are completely divorced from my politics; what I like in the bedroom need not define how I treat women in my day to day, nor does the content of my prose.

Right. Wanting something because you are the unique person that you are is way different from thinking that other people necessarily are, or ought to be, a certain way because they're a man or a woman.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Feminist Erotica

Is it just me, or does anyone else here give significant thought to whether or not you're being a decent feminist (or, by flipside, worry that you're being sexist) with the stuff you write on literotica?

I realize this question may seem like troll bait, but hopefully anyone with a thoughtful answer will be able to recognize & ignore any trollish responses they get.

This is something I think about a lot. I'd love to hear what sort of thoughts other writers have on it.

I think this is so significant that I set up a blog called Feminist Erotica to review erotica and consider the matter. (I haven't been on it for a bit as me and my family are having one of those times when as John Lennon put it, 'life is what happens when you're making other plans', I plan to go back to it this week along with my other writing.)

I think sexuality is the arena in which more than any other we work at who we are so it's important that we are enabled to do it in a way that builds us as well pleasured women and men (and cross gender identities) who are secure in who we are. Feminism to me is an ethos which supports our human development whether as women or men. It's just as important for men to be enabled to be equal and not have to try to live up to some unreal expectation that they must always be aggressively successful, never shed a tear (unless they are a famous sporting star), stay long hours in the office and never see their kids or enjoy cooking a good omelette.