sr71plt
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Posts
- 51,872
Feminism & Smut
- Thread starter bashfullyshameless
- Start date
mikey2much
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2006
- Posts
- 1,457
Let me start off by saying, I'm hopelessly PC challenged
This thread reminds me of a story about a group of hounds who were talking about food one day and were joined by a group of rabbits. Surprisingly the rabbits weren't frightened and the hounds were polite. They began to respect each other, began to see common interest. Both groups had seen their friends killed on the highways, they cursed the fleas together and bridges were being built.
And then someone mentioned their favorite receipt, rabbit stew.
One of the rabbits replied, "I'm a rabbittist, and I am against all forms of rabbit stew."
Which prompts one of the hounds to proclaim, "I know rabbits that enjoy being stewed."
"Those that like being stewed aren't 'real' rabbits, they are only symbolic bunnies, they don't have the backbone to be real rabbits." One of the younger rabbits exclaimed.
Older heads stepped in and changed the subject, but all the hounds now couldn't get the thought of hot rabbit stew out of their minds, even as they talked together about other things.
The rabbits were backing toward the door as they were talking because they sensed a change in the hounds While both groups said nice things about the other, so much divided them that understanding each other might be impossible. Maybe the best they can hope for is to watch which subjects come up when they are together.
This thread reminds me of a story about a group of hounds who were talking about food one day and were joined by a group of rabbits. Surprisingly the rabbits weren't frightened and the hounds were polite. They began to respect each other, began to see common interest. Both groups had seen their friends killed on the highways, they cursed the fleas together and bridges were being built.
And then someone mentioned their favorite receipt, rabbit stew.
One of the rabbits replied, "I'm a rabbittist, and I am against all forms of rabbit stew."
Which prompts one of the hounds to proclaim, "I know rabbits that enjoy being stewed."
"Those that like being stewed aren't 'real' rabbits, they are only symbolic bunnies, they don't have the backbone to be real rabbits." One of the younger rabbits exclaimed.
Older heads stepped in and changed the subject, but all the hounds now couldn't get the thought of hot rabbit stew out of their minds, even as they talked together about other things.
The rabbits were backing toward the door as they were talking because they sensed a change in the hounds While both groups said nice things about the other, so much divided them that understanding each other might be impossible. Maybe the best they can hope for is to watch which subjects come up when they are together.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Isn't it nice to realise that we are human beings and not rabbits and dogs?
Cute version of the story, though.
Cute version of the story, though.
Cruel2BKind
Not Quite Here
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Posts
- 2,996
Since I write a bunch of Lesbian Sex stories, I routinely put women in roles featuring their strength, ingenuity, sensibility and agility. I'm all in favor of this in RL as well.
OTOH, I equate 'Feminisim' with a bunch of disgruntled, dissatisfied, homely broads going floppy-tit braless in Hello Kitty T-shirts, exercise shorts and Birkenstocks while protesting some real or frequently imagined slight to their 'femininity' in public places and generally making pests of themselves.
http://p.twimg.com/A0y927uCEAACxtY.jpg:large
Fuckin repub.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Aww, TE was just trying to make a funny, guys.
You can tell because he put a wink in it.
You can tell because he put a wink in it.
HeyAll
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Posts
- 5,318
None- A fantasy is a fantasy.
I've never really thought about whether my female characters are sexist or degrading before. But I've never made them that way. I've always kept them smart and well aware. It definitely makes for a more interesting story.
Even if the female character gets 'slutty' or offers herself, it's just a fantasy. Contrast is always arousing.
I've never really thought about whether my female characters are sexist or degrading before. But I've never made them that way. I've always kept them smart and well aware. It definitely makes for a more interesting story.
Even if the female character gets 'slutty' or offers herself, it's just a fantasy. Contrast is always arousing.
CWatson
Not in a band.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Posts
- 1,653
I think this is a difficult question to answer because feminism is such a diverse movement.
Let's just start with one little nuance of feminism, which is a united movement the same way Christianity is a united religion. Some feminists believe that while men should support feminism, they should not describe themselves as feminist, because feminism is a movement where women solve their own problems, by themselves and for themselves--as opposed to getting men to do it for them, which would just be an enforcement of the patriarchy. This is not an invalid viewpoint, and men who agree with it describe themselves as "pro-feminist" instead.
Now, let's apply this very briefly to pr0n--or, if we're feeling very sassy, to sex itself.
Let's say that I, a man, am having sex with a woman. While we are doing it, I use my fingers to help her get off--breasts, clit, whichever she likes. She has an orgasm, followed by me, and we collapse in a throbbing, sweaty pile together to enjoy the afterglow.
Was this sex feminist or misogynistic?
You could make the argument that we were promoting feminism because she had an orgasm. In stereotypical Victorian sex (as previously noted), the woman's role is to be passive, and her enjoyment is not important. By making sure she was an equal partner in the sex act, we are fighting The Man.
You could also make the argument that I was promoting patriarchy by helping her out at all. A woman's orgasm is her business, not mine, and by aiding her I am asserting that men should be involved in it to any extent whatsoever, which is not true. Women don't need men to get off properly, and I am oppressing her by trying to exert control, however well-meaning, over her sexuality in this way.
Speaking only for myself, I think this second argument is a bit silly. If I'm going to be with someone, I want her to have fun; I'm a romantic, but to my mind, her enjoyment and her orgasm are actually more important than my own. But it is, nonetheless, a valid viewpoint, one that has merits and needs to be considered rationally. If I met a woman who felt that way, I would respect her views (though we'd probably go our separate ways in the end). There are many ways to look at anything--sex, feminism, whatever--and the "feminist" value of any given thing often depends on where you stand.
So, to answer your original question: No, I don't worry about whether my stories are feminist any more than I do about whether my stories are conservative. I just write. I have characters who like to be dominated and I have characters who like to be in charge. Some of them are men and some of them are women. People are people, and if I write them as people, and don't try to chain them to whatever values any given viewpoint is pushing--be it The Man ("All women must stay in the kitchen!"), feminism ("Bra-burning! ...Wait, did we ever actually do that, or was it simply conflated with the Vietnam War protests?") or even smut itself ("All women must like anal!")--then I will be able to tell a good story.
Let's just start with one little nuance of feminism, which is a united movement the same way Christianity is a united religion. Some feminists believe that while men should support feminism, they should not describe themselves as feminist, because feminism is a movement where women solve their own problems, by themselves and for themselves--as opposed to getting men to do it for them, which would just be an enforcement of the patriarchy. This is not an invalid viewpoint, and men who agree with it describe themselves as "pro-feminist" instead.
Now, let's apply this very briefly to pr0n--or, if we're feeling very sassy, to sex itself.
Let's say that I, a man, am having sex with a woman. While we are doing it, I use my fingers to help her get off--breasts, clit, whichever she likes. She has an orgasm, followed by me, and we collapse in a throbbing, sweaty pile together to enjoy the afterglow.
Was this sex feminist or misogynistic?
You could make the argument that we were promoting feminism because she had an orgasm. In stereotypical Victorian sex (as previously noted), the woman's role is to be passive, and her enjoyment is not important. By making sure she was an equal partner in the sex act, we are fighting The Man.
You could also make the argument that I was promoting patriarchy by helping her out at all. A woman's orgasm is her business, not mine, and by aiding her I am asserting that men should be involved in it to any extent whatsoever, which is not true. Women don't need men to get off properly, and I am oppressing her by trying to exert control, however well-meaning, over her sexuality in this way.
Speaking only for myself, I think this second argument is a bit silly. If I'm going to be with someone, I want her to have fun; I'm a romantic, but to my mind, her enjoyment and her orgasm are actually more important than my own. But it is, nonetheless, a valid viewpoint, one that has merits and needs to be considered rationally. If I met a woman who felt that way, I would respect her views (though we'd probably go our separate ways in the end). There are many ways to look at anything--sex, feminism, whatever--and the "feminist" value of any given thing often depends on where you stand.
So, to answer your original question: No, I don't worry about whether my stories are feminist any more than I do about whether my stories are conservative. I just write. I have characters who like to be dominated and I have characters who like to be in charge. Some of them are men and some of them are women. People are people, and if I write them as people, and don't try to chain them to whatever values any given viewpoint is pushing--be it The Man ("All women must stay in the kitchen!"), feminism ("Bra-burning! ...Wait, did we ever actually do that, or was it simply conflated with the Vietnam War protests?") or even smut itself ("All women must like anal!")--then I will be able to tell a good story.
Last edited:
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Females believe that cuz they cage lions and feed them theyve altered the nature of lions. Nothing is more untrue. Lions accept what is and rip your ass off your body the first moment you forget who they are.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
he is jimmy, see him roar. 
Good thought process, CWatson.
You spent, IMO, a little extra energy in building and knocking down a couple of straw men, but then-- they are hugely common straw men, after all.
How about this one-- If I, as a butch dyke, call my bedmate "Princess," am I being a bad feminist?
Good thought process, CWatson.
You spent, IMO, a little extra energy in building and knocking down a couple of straw men, but then-- they are hugely common straw men, after all. How about this one-- If I, as a butch dyke, call my bedmate "Princess," am I being a bad feminist?
TE999
How 'bout a kiss, baby
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Posts
- 30,088
Shhh. Let's just let that be a secret from them.
You Lefty whiners never miss a chance to bring politics into the conversation, do ya? You wouldn't know satire if it bit you on the ass. Waitaminnit, SR might like it.
Aww, TE was just trying to make a funny, guys.
You can tell because he put a wink in it.
Stella got it.
sr71plt
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Posts
- 51,872
You Lefty whiners never miss a chance to bring politics into the conversation, do ya? You wouldn't know satire if it bit you on the ass. Waitaminnit, SR might like it.
Well, getting back to what this website is really about, I should have a satire posting to the Winter Holiday contest tomorrow, so you can check that out and see whether you still think you're right about not know what satire is.
Also, you've established yourself as such a polarized political wingnut that it's really hard to determine whether you are engaging in satire or just being wildly crazy again.
soflabbwlvr
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Posts
- 4,622
When you parrot Rush Limbaugh, what do you expect?You Lefty whiners never miss a chance to bring politics into the conversation, do ya? You wouldn't know satire if it bit you on the ass. Waitaminnit, SR might like it.
Stella got it.
TE999
How 'bout a kiss, baby
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Posts
- 30,088
Also, you've established yourself as such a polarized political wingnut that it's really hard to determine whether you are engaging in satire or just being wildly crazy again.
Polarized against your Leftist tripe, fuckin-A right I am. Say hi to the opposition party. Nancy.
Ohhh, someone with a different point of view than yours? Well, shut him right up. You and your ilk are a bunch of fucking hypocrites. Free speech is ok as long as you agree with it. Go trim your nails and take a horse trank, sparky.
Cruel2BKind
Not Quite Here
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Posts
- 2,996
You Lefty whiners never miss a chance to bring politics into the conversation, do ya? You wouldn't know satire if it bit you on the ass. Waitaminnit, SR might like it.
Stella got it.
That's the problem.
http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws....sure-if-onion-headline-or-republican-said.png
TE999
How 'bout a kiss, baby
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Posts
- 30,088
What is the problem, BTW? That someone disagrees with you? Tough noogies.
I do enjoy the 'Onion' and 'Futurama'. They're also evenhanded in their political and social satires, as is 'South Park'.
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Yeah.. I am proud of AH that we managed to not host this kind of garbage board speech for this entire year.
TE999
How 'bout a kiss, baby
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Posts
- 30,088
Yeah, I like South Park pricking every bubble in sight too. I think they'd have a ball with you.
Ummm ... I think they'd have a ball with you too. Come to think of it, they already have. Remember the episode called 'Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride'?
Here's a link in case you missed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Gay_Al's_Big_Gay_Boat_Ride
TE999
How 'bout a kiss, baby
- Joined
- May 4, 2006
- Posts
- 30,088
Yeah.. I am proud of AH that we managed to not host this kind of garbage board speech for this entire year.
I agree. I'm bored. Back to porn.
sr71plt
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Posts
- 51,872
Ummm ... I think they'd have a ball with you too. Come to think of it, they already have. Remember the episode called 'Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride'?
Here's a link in case you missed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Gay_Al's_Big_Gay_Boat_Ride
Yeah, I think they would have a ball with me. And I'd laugh right along with them. I think that's part of the point I was trying to make to you and you are going lalalalala over so you don't have to have your prejudices challenged. (which I think trumps you pointing out I played the "this is a porn board" card--especially since you then used the card yourself.)
Didn't take you long to get around to gay bashing, did it? You must be pretty upset to be dropping into the sewer like that. (And talk about trying to change the subject.
)Bet you thought I would just fold by turning on the gay bashing, didn't you? That goes with you being wrong with your fringe stereotyping. I've had tons of experience with wingnuts like you.
Last edited:
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
See you later.I agree. I'm bored. Back to porn.
CWatson
Not in a band.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Posts
- 1,653
Dunno. Or, more accurately, don't care.
Feminism is, in my mind, like faith: it's something that's hugely personal. If your bedmate thinks it's offensive, then I guess it's offensive, but (to my knowledge) I'm not her, so who cares what I think. ;D
Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Good answer!Dunno. Or, more accurately, don't care.
Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 18,459
Since I write a bunch of Lesbian Sex stories, I routinely put women in roles featuring their strength, ingenuity, sensibility and agility. I'm all in favor of this in RL as well.
OTOH, I equate 'Feminisim' with a bunch of disgruntled, dissatisfied, homely broads going floppy-tit braless in Hello Kitty T-shirts, exercise shorts and Birkenstocks while protesting some real or frequently imagined slight to their 'femininity' in public places and generally making pests of themselves.
Now that's a revealing response: the way to discredit a woman's ideas is to accuse her of being unfuckable.
Care to show us pics of yourself, so we can figure out whether you're handsome enough to be taken seriously?
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Feminism is like belonging to MENSA. It impresses no one but other MENSA members, and adds nuthin to your resume.
