Role confusion- frustrated sub

[Alliecat1970]

I am very new to D/s and becoming confused. I have been with a Dom for 2 months, but feel as if I am driving the relationship. He always asks what I want. We have discussed limits, so WTF? When I ask what he wants, his reply is to give me pleasure and that he is doing what he wants. Tried to express that hello, I would like to be dominated, did not go well. We are supposed to discuss again this weekend. Any suggestions on how to approach this? Feel like I am continually topping from wished for bottom.U]

 

[Alliecat1970]

Additional information- he has been involved in D/S 15 years. I did check 2 references, but did not ask about this, more concerned with being hurt than not. His responses to me are various: he's not even sure I am submissive (ever wonder why???); his style of dominance is subtle; if I want someone to beat the hell out of me there plenty who will ( not what I want).

 

[eastern sun]

I am very new to D/s and becoming confused. I have been with a Dom for 2 months, but feel as if I am driving the relationship. He always asks what I want. We have discussed limits, so WTF? When I ask what he wants, his reply is to give me pleasure and that he is doing what he wants. Tried to express that hello, I would like to be dominated, did not go well. We are supposed to discuss again this weekend. Any suggestions on how to approach this? Feel like I am continually topping from wished for bottom.U]

It sounds like he wants to give you pleasure and that he is doing what he wants. He's asking what you want because he wants to know what you want.

Why don't you tell him what you want when he asks you? What do you want? What do you mean when you say "Hello, I would like to be dominated"?

It sounds to me like you don't find him sexually attractive. That you would rather be involved with a man who is going to surprise you sexually. Perhaps that is the problem. It would be ok, when he asks what you want, to say "I want to be surprised."

A lot of people who are new to D/s have a fantasy in their mind, and they're very disappointed when reality doesn't measure up to the fantasy. I've had that experience too.

If you want to experience the reality of D/s, you have to begin with what's actually happening. If this man is the partner you want to stay with, then you have to practice submission, and discover what it really means to submit to the will of another person. He is expressing his will and hoping that you will do what he asks of you.

But perhaps he is not the partner you want to stay with. That's ok. Be kind. Don't make him feel like something's wrong with him. You just haven't made a good match. When you meet another potential partner, you will know more about what you really want in a D/s relationship (i.e. that he won't always ask what you want, that he'll surprise you, overpower you, act without speaking, etc).

Does that make sense?

 

[Alliecat1970]

Thank you, Eastern Sun. I do try to tell him what I want. I think my biggest issue is that it feels like I am in total control of the relationship and any play activities. I was being sarcastic an frustrated with the "hello, being dominated bit. I really like him and would like this to work out, I just feel so confused, frustrated and starting to get angry.

 

[eastern sun]

Thank you, Eastern Sun. I do try to tell him what I want. I think my biggest issue is that it feels like I am in total control of the relationship and any play activities. I was being sarcastic an frustrated with the "hello, being dominated bit. I really like him and would like this to work out, I just feel so confused, frustrated and starting to get angry.

What if you simply adjust your thinking a bit. . . you're probably experiencing the control you have always exercised over your own life. It's just coming into starker relief in this context.

Try practicing submission like a psychological exercise. When you interact with him, just let him be in control. Instead of evaluating whether you like how you feel, focus on simply doing what he asks of you. See what happens.

You may not be giving him a chance to fully take control of the situation because your thoughts are so focussed on what you think is happening.

 

[Alliecat1970]

That is very interesting, I hadn't looked at it that way. So, perhaps by seeking to submit, I am not submitting, or something to that effect?

 

[CutieMouse]

That is very interesting, I hadn't looked at it that way. So, perhaps by seeking to submit, I am not submitting, or something to that effect?

By trying to submit YOUR way, instead of HIS way, yes.

What does submission look like, to you? How is your "vision" of what submission looks like, and the reality of what submission looks like, not matching up?

 

[Alliecat1970]

I guess I expected some indication of what it is that I should do to be pleasing. I try to watch and determine his preferences, but don't know if I am successful. There have been no "rules" established, or any requests or tasks. So I feel a bit at sea. I guess, I expected more clarity and guidance.

 

[MellowTone]

I guess I expected some indication of what it is that I should do to be pleasing. I try to watch and determine his preferences, but don't know if I am successful. There have been no "rules" established, or any requests or tasks. So I feel a bit at sea. I guess, I expected more clarity and guidance.

Personally, having rules, instruction, and feedback is a key component of my satisfaction as a sub. And, personally, I do not believe that as a sub you aren't entitled to seek satisfaction in your D/s relationship. For me, it would be very unfulfilling to simply be told "Do what makes you happy" ALL THE TIME. Its so much sweeter to be told that only rarely.

I'm sure many will echo the advice that you talk to your Dom about it. I will add my voice to that chorus. Explain that you don't really feel that you are pleasing him like this, or that you're afraid he isn't giving you the chance to prove yourself, or HOWEER it is that you're feeling. Hopefully he will either reassure you that he asks for what he wants, you give it to him, and he is pleased, or it opens a discussion of pushing limits and exploring new territory. I wish you good luck!

 

[CutieMouse]

I guess I expected some indication of what it is that I should do to be pleasing. I try to watch and determine his preferences, but don't know if I am successful. There have been no "rules" established, or any requests or tasks. So I feel a bit at sea. I guess, I expected more clarity and guidance.

Then explain that you're needing more clarity and/or guidance. Ask if he's interested in offering more clarity and/or guidance. And be prepared to offer examples of what you mean by "clarity and/or guidance".

For example, the only "rules" from the men in my life are:

1) own my own shit
2) protect myself [when necessary]
3) any additional relationships have to be good for me

My "rules" [for the men in my life] are:

1) let me take care of you
2) no drama
3) be honest with me, even if you think it will hurt


I'm just as likely to say "Do you have any time free next week?" or "May I come clean/make dinner/visit?" as he is. I can't think of the last time I had a "task"... I offered to research something for him once, that he didn't have time to look into.

Luckily, that's a style that works for us; it may not be a style that works for you.

 

[the captians wench]

I had this same issue with Jounar when we first met. I was new, and excited, and had in my mind these visions that are probably very similar to what is known as "micro management"...Jounar is very much not into micro management. He gave me way more freedom than I expected to have. He didn't have very many rules and the ones he did have seemed to be set up as an excuse to "punish" me. I am very service oriented, so the idea of being punished upset me.

It's been a long journey, but now he uses the word "torture" instead of "punish" when he wants to hurt me (which I enjoy and freely give myself to) and he gives me tasks from time to time to fill that service need. Neither of which would have happened if I hadn't talked to him about the issues I was feeling.

I also some where in this time experienced a relationship that was more micro managed and realized that I didn't like it as much as I thought I would.


*since I haven't spoken with you before, I will note that Jounar and I are long distance. I do have experience face to face, but Jounar has always been "primary" in my heart and mind, and there for our interactions have greatly shaped my views on the type of D/s that works for me.

 

[the captians wench]

Then explain that you're needing more clarity and/or guidance. Ask if he's interested in offering more clarity and/or guidance. And be prepared to offer examples of what you mean by "clarity and/or guidance".

For example, the only "rules" from the men in my life are:

1) own my own shit
2) protect myself [when necessary]
3) any additional relationships have to be good for me

My "rules" [for the men in my life] are:

1) let me take care of you
2) no drama
3) be honest with me, even if you think it will hurt


I'm just as likely to say "Do you have any time free next week?" or "May I come clean/make dinner/visit?" as he is. I can't think of the last time I had a "task"... I offered to research something for him once, that he didn't have time to look into.

Luckily, that's a style that works for us; it may not be a style that works for you.

And the longer I'm around BDSMers the more I find that this style is a whole lot more common than what is projected to be "true BDSM"

 

[Stella_Omega]

I am very new to D/s and becoming confused. I have been with a Dom for 2 months, but feel as if I am driving the relationship. He always asks what I want. We have discussed limits, so WTF? When I ask what he wants, his reply is to give me pleasure and that he is doing what he wants. Tried to express that hello, I would like to be dominated, did not go well. We are supposed to discuss again this weekend. Any suggestions on how to approach this? Feel like I am continually topping from wished for bottom.U]

When you say 'dominated,' what does that mean to you?

You want to be grabbed by the hair and shoved down over his cock? You want to know that you are just a toy for his pleasure? Denied orgasms? told when and how to take a piss?
Beyond limits, you guys need to talk about the details of the unlimits, so to speak.

Your guy sounds like he is one of the thousands of people in the hundreds of communities who don't know that there's any other terms beyond "Dom/sub." I'm going to say that he is a service top, and he's been that for fifteen years (Although that does not preclude being dominant in certain ways, as I am learning, just to confuse things)

 

[CamRew]

Respectfully, I agree with Stella__Omega ... what does dominated mean to you?

You state that you are new to this ... but obviously you have something in mind as to what you expect. You are agressive in your written word, are you the same in your retorts to him?

Write it out. Figure out what exactly what you want/expect/desire. It's amazing how much clearer things are in black and white.

Then to be fair (to both of you), find out if the two of you are on the same page. It's a minimal investment of time and thought to make sure the two of you are right for each other.

I wish you luck.

 

[subwannabe]

I say he is not as much of a dom as he says he is. I'll probably get blasted for this but I say leave him and find another. You've been with him for only two months and he's not doing what you want. This is not a LTR so why do you have to use your time to train someone (especially when it looks like he's not trainable)? Why do women always think they can make something out of nothing? Two months is within the timeframe where you throw your small fish back in the water and try and catch another.

 

[CamRew]

I say he is not as much of a dom as he says he is. I'll probably get blasted for this but I say leave him and find another. You've been with him for only two months and he's not doing what you want. This is not a LTR so why do you have to use your time to train someone (especially when it looks like he's not trainable)? Why do women always think they can make something out of nothing? Two months is within the timeframe where you throw your small fish back in the water and try and catch another.

Well said ...

an unhappy subbie is a bad subbie ... figure out what you want ...

 

[DVS]

I don't think he's a service top. He might just be a caring person who wants his partner to enjoy what he does. He could be open to suggestions and willing to give you what you want as well as receive what he wants.

It is possible that he isn't getting any vibe from you telling him you're enjoying the relationship. So, if he's always asking you what you want, maybe that's just what he wants to know. If that bugs you, maybe you should tell him what you like, even give him a list. Once he has that list, he should stop bugging you with that question.

Talk to him, as has already been suggested. Let him know what you like and find out what he likes. Once you both know what you have in common, maybe you can settle down to some good domination and submission. Once everything is out in the open and you both know enough about each other to make the relationship work, it either works or it doesn't.

But don't assume something without communication. Talking is easy. Finding a new guy worth a shit isn't that easy.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Additional information- he has been involved in D/S 15 years. I did check 2 references, but did not ask about this, more concerned with being hurt than not. His responses to me are various: he's not even sure I am submissive (ever wonder why???); his style of dominance is subtle; if I want someone to beat the hell out of me there plenty who will ( not what I want).

I guess I expected some indication of what it is that I should do to be pleasing. I try to watch and determine his preferences, but don't know if I am successful. There have been no "rules" established, or any requests or tasks. So I feel a bit at sea. I guess, I expected more clarity and guidance.

Have you been really clear about what it is you want, like in the second quote above and gotten answers like in the first quote?
If so, you might have to think long and hard about how much you are willing to compromise when it comes to what you want in a relationship.
On the other hand, do make sure that you are not comparing him to some fantasy idea about life in a D/s relationship and thereby to an impossibly high standard.

 

[DVS]

Additional information- he has been involved in D/S 15 years. I did check 2 references, but did not ask about this, more concerned with being hurt than not. His responses to me are various: he's not even sure I am submissive (ever wonder why???); his style of dominance is subtle; if I want someone to beat the hell out of me there plenty who will ( not what I want).

You checked references and they didn't tell you anything bad about him? They didn't say "he's no dominant, don't waste your time"? It seems to me, even if you didn't ask about that, they would tell you if they experienced any non-dominant behavior. And if he's been doing this for about 15 years, he's surely a dominant of some sort.

It sounds like his style is similar to mine, in some respects. I'm not going to beat the shit out of a woman, either. In fact, I am very precise with my strikes as well as where and why I hit. And I accent that with mental domination. I like to call it finesse. Physical action alone pales as does mental alone. But together, they work quite well. Not all dominants are out there to beat a woman into submission.

I still say you need to communicate and be sure you both know what the other is looking for. He might be timid because you aren't reacting like a submissive. You might not be reacting like a submissive because you don't understand his way of dominating. It could be as simple as that. And for sure, don't hold this guy up against something you've maybe read in a story or heard about how doms "should" be. There is no "should". Everybody has their own way of doing things.

 

[Alliecat1970]

Thank you to everyone for your very thought provoking posts. It has really given me much to consider, the different perspectives are incredibly useful.

DVS, thank you for the suggestion that I may not be reacting as a sub, I need to look at that. For work I do manage people and may be automatically trying to fill a perceived leadership vacuum, which would not be good. Crap, that is possible.

Stella, I have wondered about the service top issue since reading your post on that topic. By domination, I mainly mean not having to be/feel like the decision maker all of the time and feel like I have no idea if I am meeting his needs or expectations.

Definitely agree with all on the need to communicate clearly on this issue, we plan to discuss this weekend. I obviously have a lot to think about prior to this discussion.

 

[DVS]

Thank you to everyone for your very thought provoking posts. It has really given me much to consider, the different perspectives are incredibly useful.

DVS, thank you for the suggestion that I may not be reacting as a sub, I need to look at that. For work I do manage people and may be automatically trying to fill a perceived leadership vacuum, which would not be good. Crap, that is possible.

Stella, I have wondered about the service top issue since reading your post on that topic. By domination, I mainly mean not having to be/feel like the decision maker all of the time and feel like I have no idea if I am meeting his needs or expectations.

Definitely agree with all on the need to communicate clearly on this issue, we plan to discuss this weekend. I obviously have a lot to think about prior to this discussion.

It's common for someone in a leadership position during the day to prefer submitting in their sex life. In some people, it's how the subconscious mind works, to equal out the stresses of life. I've met several such women in my life. Many men are the same way. Company CEOs can be submissive in their sex lives, too. Well, only if they are in tune with their sex lives. Some are more in tune with their businesses.

There are degrees to everything in life and there are degrees in submission and in dominance. People seek out the partner that fits their needs. And there are no real rules. You just go with how you feel. If you need to put a label on it, at least figure out what you like, before you try to label it.

This guy seems like a nice enough guy and worth keeping around. Personally, I think the less demanding doms have more going on inside than it seems. Maybe it's because they don't have that heavy handed approach that some assume a confident dom would have. In the old days, there was this old adage that mothers always told their daughters to watch out for the silent ones. I was one of those guys. In fact, I still am.

I don't go around proclaiming I'm anything special or profound. I just do what I do and if someone likes it, fine. I was a wall flower when I was young, and everybody looked past me. And when I matured, I didn't change that much, I just gained confidence. My dominating style is calm and easy going. No yelling, no heavy forcing, I just do my own thing. But, because I don't seem to act like a dom until I'm into a scene, some have thought of me as a submissive, but surely not a dom. They don't think I correctly act a part.

Now, I don't know anything about this guy, but I just wanted to tell you how I am to let you know that he could be doing his own thing, too. And if his head is in a unique spot, it might not work for you. But, once you understand him better, you might be surprised. Don't count him out before you know where his head is.

 

[Joe6pack]

I see this a little differently. Why is he asking you what you want? That hands the power over to you - which is apparently not what you want. Doesn't seem very dominant. He should really go into it with the mindset that he can do whatever he wants as long as it is within the limits you've set forth. Of course you can discuss things afterward, but he should be writing the script.

I guess the bottom line for me is that he should be doing what he wants, not asking what you want. No wonder you don't feel very submissive.

 

[Daxaeha]

I skimmed a bit so apologies if answered already, yadda yadda.


I'd like to jump in with a question of my own.

I see a lot of advice directed at new subs about what the fantasy in their heads is and how that's what reality isn't living up to.

How do I lower the expectations!? Years of extremely intense porn and stories have skewed my perception of what's happening to me. It's like being disappointed because romance novels have made your partner seem like a sniveling child and I understand that, but how do I turn that off, reset the standards?

 

[DVS]

I skimmed a bit so apologies if answered already, yadda yadda.


I'd like to jump in with a question of my own.

I see a lot of advice directed at new subs about what the fantasy in their heads is and how that's what reality isn't living up to.

How do I lower the expectations!? Years of extremely intense porn and stories have skewed my perception of what's happening to me. It's like being disappointed because romance novels have made your partner seem like a sniveling child and I understand that, but how do I turn that off, reset the standards?

Do you believe all of the commercials you see on TV? How about the products that say they are "new and improved"? What was wrong with the previous version that you were buying? How about magazine ads. Do you really think the sandwiches in magazine ads look like what you get from the drive in window? How about the politicians? Do you seriously think they are worth what we pay them...for life?

In all honesty, when I talk to a woman on the phone for the first time, she gets an impression of me from my voice that gives her goose bumps and chills, I'm sure. Then, when we meet, that impression is all lost in the dust. And I'm new and improved from a few years ago!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Daxaeha-- doesn't that just suck? I went through the same thing. I don't know what got me past it-- maybe the fact that I was taking matters into my own hands, and that I've found a niche that makes me feel pretty fulfilled.

But that damn Great House mythos-- yeah, i wanted SO MUCH to be young and beautiful and infinitely flexible, able to jet off to put myself up for auction knowing that I would be bought by the best of all possible masters and spend my contract time as a sex slave... Meh. I've never seen a porn star body that moved me. And here in LA-- I've seen a lot of porn star bodies.

I'm starting to holler at my novel-writing friends, asking them to write more realistic D/s relationships instead of these perfect magical-read-sub's-mind type doms. Because that doesn't help much either.