God

[Tryharder62]

yeah, a few members on here don't like me because i post too much basically.. which i don't get, because forums are meant to post freely. feel me?

I'm assuming feel me is just an expression? Or are you really wanting me too.

 

[fair_warning]

Scientifically, if there is no God, it would be impossible to have matter and energy in existance right now.

What?
I am just gobsmacked that you chose to use 'some'aspects of science to try and prove that God exists but by the same token, completely ignore the fact that science also strongly indicates that the Bible should never be taken literally (ie: the earth was made on Wednesday afternoon...about 4500 years ago)
How do you rationalise this 'pick n mix' approach?

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

I'm assuming feel me is just an expression? Or are you really wanting me too.

feel me like saying "you know what i mean"

but yeah, you can also feel on me


MMMMmMmmm turning me on this morning *stick tongue out*

 

[Tryharder62]

What?
I am just gobsmacked that you chose to use 'some'aspects of science to try and prove that God exists but by the same token, completely ignore the fact that science also strongly indicates that the Bible should never be taken literally (ie: the earth was made on Wednesday afternoon...about 4500 years ago)
How do you rationalise this 'pick n mix' approach?

To be honest I think it is you that pick and choose some aspects of science to try to prove that God doesn't exist. When I bring up the Scientific law of thermodynamics I get quickly dismissed with "Science is still working on the time/energy 'thingy" That is my total point with all I have said. Science is still working on it. Carbon dating all the other points we brought up on the Creationism thread is still being worked on by Science. They are not 100% like people want to say they are. I love Science. The more information we have the better. With all the Science there is out there I can't find one shred of evidence that proves there is not a God either.

It's good to talk to you again by the way.

 

[fair_warning]

To be honest I think it is you that pick and choose some aspects of science to try to prove that God doesn't exist. When I bring up the Scientific law of thermodynamics I get quickly dismissed with "Science is still working on the time/energy 'thingy" That is my total point with all I have said. Science is still working on it. Carbon dating all the other points we brought up on the Creationism thread is still being worked on by Science. They are not 100% like people want to say they are. I love Science. The more information we have the better. With all the Science there is out there I can't find one shred of evidence that proves there is not a God either.

It's good to talk to you again by the way.

Ok, well try and see it from my perspective...I don't EVER use any part of the Bible to try and support my position. On the other hand, you use the Bible and any titbits of science you think might be useful to support your belief/faith...

 

[Tryharder62]

Ok, well try and see it from my perspective...I don't EVER use any part of the Bible to try and support my position. On the other hand, you use the Bible and any titbits of science you think might be useful to support your belief/faith...

Send all the science you want at me. I like it. I can debate on science alone. I use all the information available to me that is true. Whether you believe in Jesus or the God of the bible no archeological find has ever contradicted the bible. Even if you want to only take it as literature and not the inspired word of God. No other book has been as thoroughly studied as the bible. It has withstood the test of time. I don't think I even referenced the Bible in this discussion of if there was a God. I don't use tidbits of science. I just don't believe Science has everything figured out 100% like people want to think it is. It is almost like Science is the "God."

 

[fair_warning]

Send all the science you want at me. I like it. I can debate on science alone. I use all the information available to me that is true. Whether you believe in Jesus or the God of the bible no archeological find has ever contradicted the bible. Even if you want to only take it as literature and not the inspired word of God. No other book has been as thoroughly studied as the bible. It has withstood the test of time. I don't think I even referenced the Bible in this discussion of if there was a God. I don't use tidbits of science. I just don't believe Science has everything figured out 100% like people want to think it is. It is almost like Science is the "God."

You don't need to reference the Bible - it's a given. And yes, you choose to use some science and reject the parts that don't support your position.
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that science has the answer for everything. What I am saying is that taking the Bible literally ie: the earth was made on Wednesday afternoon about 4500 years ago is just plain...ok...an act of faith. No proof, nothing - just faith.

 

[Tryharder62]

You don't need to reference the Bible - it's a given. And yes, you choose to use some science and reject the parts that don't support your position.
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that science has the answer for everything. What I am saying is that taking the Bible literally ie: the earth was made on Wednesday afternoon about 4500 years ago is just plain...ok...an act of faith. No proof, nothing - just faith.

Wow! I did not know I didn't need to reference the bible. Am I bible woman or what? LOL

No what you don't like me saying is that part of Science is fact and part of Science is not. It is a work in progress.

Did you know the Potassium Argon K-AR radiometric dating method used to date the Earth as billions of years old also dates the 1980 Mt. St. Helen eruption to have occured 2.8 million years ago. (Houston, we have a problem!)

 

[phrodeau]

In science there is a Law of Physics called the 1st law of Thermodynamics. The "closed system" is a scientific term that refers to a system or an "area" that has no outside influence, like the universe. To those who believe there is no God the universe would be a closed system without outside influence (God).

The first law of thermodynamics states that you can never have an increase or decrease of energy/matter in a closed system, which means that matter/energy can not be created from nothingness. How did we get all the matter and energy in the universe? If science is all there is and there is no God, then the 1st Law of Thermodynamics reigns supreme and therefore it would be impossible to have matter and energy in existence right now. Simply put, when you open your eyes and see matter and experience energy, what you see is impossible according to the the known Laws of Science if, in fact, there is not God. Therefore, Science itself proves there must be a god.

What is this "nothingness" you speak of? Does science tell you that there was "nothingness" before the Big Bang?

The Big Bang is a wall in time, beyond which we have no clue. You can assume that God can be found there if you like, and nobody can counter the argument. However, that means God has been on the job for fourteen billion years before He got around to making people.

What was He up to all that time? He sure doesn't have much to say about it.

 

[Tryharder62]

What is this "nothingness" you speak of? Does science tell you that there was "nothingness" before the Big Bang?

The Big Bang is a wall in time, beyond which we have no clue. You can assume that God can be found there if you like, and nobody can counter the argument. However, that means God has been on the job for fourteen billion years before He got around to making people.

What was He up to all that time? He sure doesn't have much to say about it.

I do not speak of nothingness the law of thermodynamics does. It states also you can never have an increase of decrease of energy/matter.

You and I disagree about that amount of time. I think there are issues with radioactive dating that are in my previous post.

 

[phrodeau]

Wow! I did not know I didn't need to reference the bible. Am I bible woman or what? LOL

No what you don't like me saying is that part of Science is fact and part of Science is not. It is a work in progress.

Did you know the Potassium Argon K-AR radiometric dating method used to date the Earth as billions of years old also dates the 1980 Mt. St. Helen eruption to have occured 2.8 million years ago. (Houston, we have a problem!)

No it doesn't. You don't date an eruption by the age of the lava flow. You date it by the age of the soil beneath it.

 

[phrodeau]

I do not speak of nothingness the law of thermodynamics does. It states also you can never have an increase of decrease of energy/matter.

You and I disagree about that amount of time. I think there are issues with radioactive dating that are in my previous post.

The Big Bang is a wall in time, beyond which we have no clue. You can assume that God can be found there if you like, and nobody can counter the argument. I can assume that there was matter and energy before the Big Bang, and nobody can counter that argument either.

 

[redheadedtxn]

I will believe in a god when over 15 THOUSAND children a day don't die of hunger. What, do they not pray right? If a god made them, why does he let them be just human waste? If there was a god, I would be very pissed at him.

 

[Tryharder62]

The Big Bang is a wall in time, beyond which we have no clue. You can assume that God can be found there if you like, and nobody can counter the argument. I can assume that there was matter and energy before the Big Bang, and nobody can counter that argument either.

I just wish that people could agree and respect each other for it. I agree with you. Neither of us can counter the arguements above. But when a person chooses to look at the evidence and finds God there they are no more stupid or intelligent as someone who chooses to assume there was matter and energy before the big bang.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

In science there is a Law of Physics called the 1st law of Thermodynamics. The "closed system" is a scientific term that refers to a system or an "area" that has no outside influence, like the universe. To those who believe there is no God the universe would be a closed system without outside influence (God).

The first law of thermodynamics states that you can never have an increase or decrease of energy/matter in a closed system, which means that matter/energy can not be created from nothingness. How did we get all the matter and energy in the universe? If science is all there is and there is no God, then the 1st Law of Thermodynamics reigns supreme and therefore it would be impossible to have matter and energy in existence right now. Simply put, when you open your eyes and see matter and experience energy, what you see is impossible according to the the known Laws of Science if, in fact, there is not God. Therefore, Science itself proves there must be a god.

An oldie that's been answered, and answered, and answered, answered...

Jesus. Here you go:

1. The Big Bang has entropy S.
2. A hypothetical god is either orderly or chaotic.

a) Hypothetical gods have a personhood.​

b) Personhood implies orderliness.​

c) A hypothetical god is orderly, and thus has low entropy.​

3. In order for god to directly cause the Big Bang, he must have a lower entropy (S-a, where a is positive, real number).
4. The probability of the Big Bang coming from a higher state of entropy (S+b, where b is a positive, real number) approaches P=1, normalizing over the condition of many opportunities for the Big Bang to happen.
5. The probability of the Big Bang coming from an even lower state of entropy (god) approaches Q=0 (since Q=1-P).
6. The difference in probability is thus the limit of 1 divided by the limit of 0, which of course approaches infinity.
7. There is an infinitely greater chance that the Big Bang is the result of randomness than the result of even more order.

Thus, god does not exist.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

There is a weird irony to you using the science based first law of theromdynamics to attempt to prove a God exists.

That's the other answer.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

God -- a sentient superior being who created the universe, created humans, is aware of their daily movements, has moral and ethical rules for them to follow, and provides an afterlife for the dead.

Not a mist of energy. Not the good feeling you get in your tummy when you eat ice cream on a hot summer day. Not our collective unconscious. An actual manifest force that made us, knows who we are, has rules, and can make us live after death.

This is an astonishing claim. If you espouse it, you really should be able to back that shit up.

Prove God exists.

First of all, I’m not going to try to prove that god exists. I believe that god is a sentient being who created the universe, including humans for a purpose. I believe in an afterlife but not in moral or ethical rules. I don’t believe in a vengeful, jealous god. I believe that god is the purest form of infinite life force energy.

Like you, I don’t give a fat rat’s ass what anyone else believes. Whenever the god topic comes up, I listen to hear of the dynamic god like experiences people have had. I mostly hear arguments based on scripture. I’ve read the Bible, Gita, the Book of the Dead and hundreds of other books. But I’ve also had experiences that have put me beyond faith. I’ve experienced perfect peace and bliss.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

I will believe in a god when over 15 THOUSAND children a day don't die of hunger. What, do they not pray right? If a god made them, why does he let them be just human waste? If there was a god, I would be very pissed at him.

Tex, I thought you were a Buddhist?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

The professor of a University challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, He did."

The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question?" "Of course" answered the professor.

The young student stood up and asked: "Professor does cold exist?"

The pofessor answered, "What kind of a question is that? of course cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered. "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absense of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."

"And does Dark exist?" He continued. The professor answered "of course". This time the student responded, " Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness cannot. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tares the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there is lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist? The professor replied. "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous case, evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."

After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

The young student's name was ALBERT EINSTEIN.

Yeah, this story never happened.

Almost every post you've made has been some old theist chestnut of an argument that was kicked in the teeth 50 years ago. Buy some new books if you want to be taken seriously. And stop reading shit on the Internet.

And, for fuck's sake, check in with Snopes every now and then.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

First of all, I’m not going to try to prove that god exists. I believe that god is a sentient being who created the universe, including humans for a purpose. I believe in an afterlife but not in moral or ethical rules. I don’t believe in a vengeful, jealous god. I believe that god is the purest form of infinite life force energy.

Like you, I don’t give a fat rat’s ass what anyone else believes. Whenever the god topic comes up, I listen to hear of the dynamic god like experiences people have had. I mostly hear arguments based on scripture. I’ve read the Bible, Gita, the Book of the Dead and hundreds of other books. But I’ve also had experiences that have put me beyond faith. I’ve experienced perfect peace and bliss.

Nobody cares about your bliss. Prove God exists. Or let me tax your church.

 

[CHNOPS]

Yeah, this story never happened.

Almost every post you've made has been some old theist chestnut of an argument that was kicked in the teeth 50 years ago. Buy some new books if you want to be taken seriously. And stop reading shit on the Internet.

And, for fuck's sake, check in with Snopes every now and then.

Snopes does not exist. It is simply the absence of non-Snopes on the Internet.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Nobody cares about your bliss. Prove God exists. Or let me tax your church.

man, I ain't got no church.


pay me.


which brings me back to my original point that god has to be experienced.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I will believe in a god when over 15 THOUSAND children a day don't die of hunger. What, do they not pray right? If a god made them, why does he let them be just human waste? If there was a god, I would be very pissed at him.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

— Epicurus

 

[redheadedtxn]

Tex, I thought you were a Buddhist?

I do believe in some of the buddhist practices, but it isn't realy a religion that believes in some "god". I absolutely am an atheist, the idea of some magical god is ridiculous to me

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

man, I ain't got no church.

pay me.

The great mistake is thinking that only the extreme religious nuts in temples are the problem. Moderates like you are the problem. Your dumbing down of God into a mystical energy cloud of Love makes the concept of a supreme being as easy to swallow as a cotton candy smoothie, and gives cover to the church going nutjobs with backpack bombs. If you want to say "I believe in God and that belief doesn't hurt anybody" you're kidding yourself. You moderates with your Rankin-Bass versions of theology create the Zeitgeist that allows the people who take the Bible and the Koran's calls to murder and intolerance dead seriously.

Also, you've never once given me a donut.