Sex in your novel?

[lokiie1984]

You all were so helpful with my last question that i figured i would try with a new one.

As i said in a post before, im working on a book, its always kind of been my dream to be published an write for a living.

So my question is how do you all feel about sex in your novels? I understand this is an erotic story web site but i kind of feel there is a difference between books were sex is the main focus and those where its more of a side thing. (Im asking here mainly because you all seem to be really intelligent and responsive)

My real dilemma is that i would like to include it, but i kind of think if i did i would want it to be as graphic as the rest of the book. At the same time the male character belongs to an anthropomorphic cat race. I fear that graphic sex scenes with him would hamper the book selling more then help it, with all the furry hate these days anyway.

And just show you the type of character im talking about, here is an excerpt of one of his fight scenes.

They are a tribal species, still living in the stone age. In the excerpt the main character Tajaki is being forced to fight his son to the death in accordance with their village religious beliefs.
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As the flaming torch fell to the ground, they were off, charging at each other from across the ring. Dropping down low, with one hand on the ground their spear in the other, their long tails shooting out behind, they leapt at each other. Clashing with all the force they could muster, each trying to stab the other, their claw's digging at their furry shoulders, stomachs and anything else in reach.

Neither seemed to have the upper hand, their weapons were equal, both made of stone and soft but springy wood. Both had the speed gifted to them by the great cats that were their ancestors.

Jumping back they both sized the other up, circling around the arena, they paced, watching. Occasionally, they would clash again, loud snarling and howling thundered out across the village, dulled only by the chanting of the crowds.

Each others blood-lust starting to rise, their clashes became more and more brutal, claw's burrowing in order to find soft flesh under the fur. Each spear swing becoming more precise.

Each of them showing signs of wear and tear, blood flowing from numerous cuts, Tajaki panted; his son was far better than he ever gave him credit for.
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Anyway, thanks for your input. Either way im enjoying the hell out of the concept, its a brutal an savage beauty and the beast, but with that that annoying prince getting in the way at the end.

 

[Sugary_Comfort]

I think you can make the sex scenes just as graphic as the rest of the story and be fine. I think what makes a novel go from being just a regular story to being a work of erotica is where the focus is.

I've read some fairly graphic sex scenes in romance novels. The romance novels I read the focus is on the plot and not really the couple's relationship so though there aren't a lot of scenes (usually two), they're fairly detailed.

But remember, if the sex scenes don't enhance the story, there's not much point in adding them into the story except to make your readers hot and bothered and to me, that just ends up being figured as smut (not in a bad sense, though).

 

[Stella_Omega]

I know so many people who can write hot sex-- and can write compelling plots-- but can't make the sex important to the plot.

believe it or not, I usually end up passing right over the sex scenes after the first two or three of them, in favor of finding out whodunit. Otherwise, I ignore the plot in favor the the very hot sex scenes.

 

[3113]

Just FYI

As i said in a post before, im working on a book, its always kind of been my dream to be published an write for a living.

Quick recommendation: Writing is not like getting a 9-5 job with a guaranteed paycheck at the end of the month. Maybe your stuff will sell and you can live off it. Maybe it won't sell at all. Maybe you'll sell one novel and can live off it for a while, but won't be able to write another before the money runs out. Or maybe the second novel will bring in far less and you won't be able to live off it. I know a couple that lives off their writing and they're barely above the poverty level at any given time.

And this is two people who write novels that sell.

A writer needs to write even if they never make a dime off writing. Like Van Gogh needed to paint, yet never made a penny off his art--because there is no knowing what writing will sell, won't sell, or for how much. Writing is not like working in the stock market, a way of making money. Writing is a way of producing a story which may or may not have the added benefit of making you money.

In other words, it's a very bad idea for a writer to give up their day job, not until and unless they hit it big. And the dream to make a living off writing is not the reason you should write. Or want to be a writer.

 

[lokiie1984]

Oh no worries there, im not expecting to get rich on it. I will prolly never be the next J.K Rowling or tolkien or any other famous writer.

As for not having a day job, well i havnt had one of those in years anyway lol. So any income i get from a book is needed income. Personally i dont see anything wrong with wanting to make a living doing what you enjoy. Even if i wont ever make very much doing it. Well maybe not a living, but making money at least.

As for the sex, i know at some point it would add to the story, but at the same time i dont know if it "needs" it. Guess i will just have to figure it out when the time comes. On the bright side it does have its fair share nudity, hell due to the circumstances of their meeting the girl spends at least the first three chapters pretty much naked (she has a flap in the front, oh and a collar, the remains of her out fit)

 

[SamScribble]

Call me old fashioned, but I think if you really want to be a writer – and write for a living – you might want to start by taking a little more care with your writing. Your post has more than a few typos. And while I realise that there are people out there who think that contractions don’t really need apostrophes, few (if any) of those people are successful working writers.

And to answer your question: sex in novels is fine – if it fits, if it’s there for a writerly reason. In that sense, it’s rather like eating in novels – or swimming – or playing Frisbee.

 

[lokiie1984]

Call me old fashioned, but I think if you really want to be a writer – and write for a living – you might want to start by taking a little more care with your writing. Your post has more than a few typos. And while I realise that there are people out there who think that contractions don’t really need apostrophes, few (if any) of those people are successful working writers.

I dont want to start an argument or anything but thats just the stupidest thing i have ever heard. First of all a forum in most cases is non formal. I like to think of it like the difference between a coloring book page you stick to your fridge vs a painting that you spend thousands of dollars on to hang above your fire place.

I mean a novel (or short story, poem, what ever) is something you put your pride into. A forum post on the other hand, is just your thoughts on the screen, as long as things spelled correctly an you get your point across thats all that matters.

And besides that its late, im tired, and i honestly dont care whether i use an apostrophe in my contractions, even in my writing i dont use them. Thats what spell checks are for, same for grammar, there is a wonderful program called WhiteSmoke that will actually check your grammar, punctuation an word usage.

So again no offense to you or anything but perfection is just not needed on a forum.

 

[Stella_Omega]

On the bright side it does have its fair share nudity, hell due to the circumstances of their meeting the girl spends at least the first three chapters pretty much naked (she has a flap in the front, oh and a collar, the remains of her out fit)

Wow-- that's edgy!


Bless your heart kid, but the day I see a female character in one of these fanboy thud-and-blunder novels show up in decent clothes that belong to her-- I'll dance the Snoopy dance. And if she owns serious armour that isn't a steel bikini, and her own sword -- I'll roll up my eyes and faint.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

I'm sure it depends on where you plan to offer and market your book (also, really, what you want your book to be, or how you identify what you're writing). Are you planning to submit to publishers? Self publish? Will you be submitting to 'erotica' publishers? If self-pubbing, do you plan to identify your book as erotica / containing adult material?

I write literary stories, but ones that don't shy away from or euphemise the sexual aspects of the story. The point isn't the sex or erotic material, but rather the characters and their development, plot, thematic elements, and other literary aspects. Still, the sex - ranging from romantic to kinky - is there. In publishing I identify my books under the category 'literary erotica', with the hope that readers looking for real stories will give them a read. But I assume that my readers are also looking for, and won't be put off by, sexual and erotic content.

So perhaps you might want to seriously consider what you want your stories to be, and let the result of that contemplation be your guide.

 

[SamScribble]

I dont want to start an argument or anything but thats just the stupidest thing i have ever heard.

And besides that its late, im tired, and i honestly dont care whether i use an apostrophe in my contractions, even in my writing i dont use them. Thats what spell checks are for, same for grammar, there is a wonderful program called WhiteSmoke that will actually check your grammar, punctuation an word usage.

So again no offense to you or anything but perfection is just not needed on a forum.

No offence taken, Lokiie. But maybe you'd like to run WhiteSmoke on your posts. There's casual and there's casual. And this is called Authors' Hangout.

Cheers, Sam

 

[YDB95]

I do have a few sex scenes in my novel, but they're less graphic than the ones in my stories here. If I made them as graphic as in my Lit stories, they wouldn't really fit in with the overall tone of the novel.

 

[lokiie1984]

Wow-- that's edgy!


Bless your heart kid, but the day I see a female character in one of these fanboy thud-and-blunder novels show up in decent clothes that belong to her-- I'll dance the Snoopy dance. And if she owns serious armour that isn't a steel bikini, and her own sword -- I'll roll up my eyes and faint.

Its not like she fell down a hill and had her clothes fly off, it all fits the theme. Also he is actually going to spend the book far more naked, he wears a loincloth; neither wears any armor though.

I'm sure it depends on where you plan to offer and market your book (also, really, what you want your book to be, or how you identify what you're writing). Are you planning to submit to publishers? Self publish? Will you be submitting to 'erotica' publishers? If self-pubbing, do you plan to identify your book as erotica / containing adult material?

That is a good point, originally i had planned to call it Adult Fantasy but that made every think i was writing a fantasy themed porn. So then i started looking into what makes a book qualify to be listed as adult, and it seems there isnt much. So i think i ended up with "action fantasy, with romance being a sub genre"

As for publishing it, i do plan to send it into a company, no idea who yet though. Or talking to an agent or something, one of those that wont be paid unless it sells type of deals. If they dont take it, i might consider self publishing. I know there are quite a few authors that start out with self publishing and then later go back an redo parts or what ever an get it published later through who ever they go through. I of course would have no idea where to even begin on that.

I would actually like to talk to an agent, just for research sake if nothing else. But sadly i dont know where to find a list, and i wouldnt trust any local ones from where i live.

Anyway thanks again for all the responses.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Quick recommendation: Writing is not like getting a 9-5 job with a guaranteed paycheck at the end of the month. Maybe your stuff will sell and you can live off it. Maybe it won't sell at all. Maybe you'll sell one novel and can live off it for a while, but won't be able to write another before the money runs out. Or maybe the second novel will bring in far less and you won't be able to live off it. I know a couple that lives off their writing and they're barely above the poverty level at any given time.

And this is two people who write novels that sell.

A writer needs to write even if they never make a dime off writing. Like Van Gogh needed to paint, yet never made a penny off his art--because there is no knowing what writing will sell, won't sell, or for how much. Writing is not like working in the stock market, a way of making money. Writing is a way of producing a story which may or may not have the added benefit of making you money.

In other words, it's a very bad idea for a writer to give up their day job, not until and unless they hit it big. And the dream to make a living off writing is not the reason you should write. Or want to be a writer.

Dear Reader

The above is 24 karat bullshit cuz 99% of the professional writing is 9-5 toil with a regular paycheck. Our Fag Hag limits the writing scope of work to fiction though most writing are reports and assessments and manuals and textbooks. I mean, what in Hell does she imagine a reporter/journalist is?

 

[TxRad]

And maybe a certain old fart (JBJ) didn't notice but the topic under discussion is fiction and not reporting/journalism. Please keep up JB.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

If you treat sex as an expression of inner character and feeling, there's no reason why you can't incorporate it into almost any novel where it's appropriate. If you just throw in some gratuitous humping, then it's probably going to be pretty obvious, and end up embarrassing your story.

"Appropriate" means it fits your story and audience expectations. You probably wouldn't want to read a hot sex scene between two hobbits, for example. But novels featuring sex with werewolves and other animal shape-shifters are pretty common.

I have to agree with Sam, too. This might be an informal forum, but it seems to me that if you think of yourself as a serious writer sharing your work with other serious writers, it only makes sense to present the best and most polished copy you can. Either that or tell them right off the bat that it's a very preliminary and rough draft, because people are going to judge. And as it is, the excerpt isn't encouraging. It reads like a description of someone fighting with their mirror image.

I remember reading a SciFi story years ago that involved a race of humanoid felines. The thing I remember best is that these cat-people had no qualms about having very public and casual sex, but always ate alone and in strict privacy. It was a nice touch.

 

[autoplot]

I dont want to start an argument or anything but thats just the stupidest thing i have ever heard. First of all a forum in most cases is non formal. I like to think of it like the difference between a coloring book page you stick to your fridge vs a painting that you spend thousands of dollars on to hang above your fire place.

You were posting an example of your fiction, which is full of typos and grammatical errors. If you really think that no one should hold you to any sort of standard and praise sloppy, garbage writing merely because it's on a forum (and have this kind of childish reaction to criticism on top of it), you're nowhere near ready to be a professional. Sharing unedited, typo-ridden prose as an example of what you're capable of is a bad habit to get into.

Anyway, to answer your question -- as for sex scenes in books, I don't care one way or the other as long as it reveals character or story in some way. If it's sheer gratuity, I'm likely to gloss over it. The only time I actively dislike sex scenes in books is when the author clearly derails his own story in order to indulge his fetishes (see: Terry Goodkind.)

 

[lokiie1984]

You were posting an example of your fiction, which is full of typos and grammatical errors. If you really think that no one should hold you to any sort of standard and praise sloppy, garbage writing merely because it's on a forum (and have this kind of childish reaction to criticism on top of it), you're nowhere near ready to be a professional. Sharing unedited, typo-ridden prose as an example of what you're capable of is a bad habit to get into.

To be fair Sam never said anything about my excerpt, only my "post." Now if he/she was talking about the excerpt thats fine and i just misunderstood. However just saying it has errors does no one any good.

If you see a problem with it, and feel the need to bring it up, pointing it will be far better then just saying its full of grammatical errors. I will be the first the to admit i dont know whole lot about the rules of writing.

As for it being unedited, i have done all i can short of hiring a real editor to tear into it. Which i will probably do once i feel its done.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

That is a good point, originally i had planned to call it Adult Fantasy but that made every think i was writing a fantasy themed porn. So then i started looking into what makes a book qualify to be listed as adult, and it seems there isnt much. So i think i ended up with "action fantasy, with romance being a sub genre"

As for publishing it, i do plan to send it into a company, no idea who yet though. Or talking to an agent or something, one of those that wont be paid unless it sells type of deals. If they dont take it, i might consider self publishing. I know there are quite a few authors that start out with self publishing and then later go back an redo parts or what ever an get it published later through who ever they go through. I of course would have no idea where to even begin on that.

I would actually like to talk to an agent, just for research sake if nothing else. But sadly i dont know where to find a list, and i wouldnt trust any local ones from where i live.

Anyway thanks again for all the responses.

I usually try to encourage writers in the direction of self-publishing.

Your ideas for your story (and I don't want to characterize them as good or bad just because what I think isn't at all important, and I don't have an affinity for erotica/fantasy writing) are quite original. I mean, a race of anthropomorphic cat people? It's a fine idea and I hope you are able to carry it off well. But based on my experience, I think the idea is just too original for conventional erotica editors/publishers.

Erotica editors and publishers are much like movie studios: the last people you want to go to with original ideas. That's not to say that there isn't fantasy in published erotica. But it has to be very narrowly channeled and identified fantasy. The big fantasy genres in erotica are 'shape-shifters' (whatever they are - again, I really don't have an interest in fantasy erotica), werewolves, vampires, and the like. Outside of those very narrow definitions I don't know that you'd find interest in erotica fantasy that has different sorts of creatures or that is defined in a different way.

Again, erotica editors and publishers have great difficulties with original ideas and are monumentally unimagiative and incapable of processing original materials.

I think it likely that were you to submit a manuscript of this nature to the average erotica publisher or editor you'd get back a response like "we really love your story and would love to publish it. But couldn't you make it __________________ instead?" And fill in the blank with "shape-shifters", "gay male werewolves", "lesbian vampires", "shape-shifting gay male werewolves", "shape-shifting lesbian vampires", "lesbian vampires who shape-shift into gay male werewolves", "gay male werewolves who shape-shift into lesbian vampirs", etc. - you get the idea - into some predictable and unimaginative formula).

Getting conventionally published in erotica is really a matter of how unimaginative a writer is, or how much he/she is willing to abandon original ideas to alter their creative output to produce writing channeled into very narrowly-defined formulas.

Any, best wishes.

 

[lokiie1984]

The thing is, i dont think im going to go the erotic rout. Later on down the line i think it could be a fun thing to do but at least for this book, its going to be action focused with the two characters growing together through out. I just wanted it to be something thats different, and even so i feel like im "borrowing" from other things i have seen or read growing up.

But i do understand what your saying, and i can see how they wouldnt want to take a chance on an original idea. Why fix what isnt broken, if gay werewolves sell thats what they will want until that particular fad fades away. (And god i hope it fades away fast, damn that twilight, turned dark fantasy into a joke; in my opinion anyway.)

I have looked into self publishing a little bit and it would be nice, full control over everything sure seems like a good idea. But its that upfront cost that would kill me. So i figure i will try an find an agent or agency company to sift through an see what they think first (once its done of course.) Like i said, if i get turned down at every turn, self publishing will probably be what i do. Even if its just hitting up the amazon.com kindle set up or the barns and noble version.

Anyway, thanks for the info Bonnie, its still good to know even if im not planning to go the full erotic rout