Writing Goal for the Day?

[sr71plt]

So far today has been setting up a freebee Christmas story for promotionals and picking out cover images for forthcoming books.

 

[lance gt]

Wondering today if the choices for brutally killing men the way I did was too much. Feedback is saying it's too over the top, yet history is saying it happened like that. Now to decide what is better to go with, reality or toned down to acceptability of the masses? Any thoughts anyone?

 

[PennLady]

Wondering today if the choices for brutally killing men the way I did was too much. Feedback is saying it's too over the top, yet history is saying it happened like that. Now to decide what is better to go with, reality or toned down to acceptability of the masses? Any thoughts anyone?

It has happened more than once that truth is stranger, or more brutal, than fiction.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Wondering today if the choices for brutally killing men the way I did was too much. Feedback is saying it's too over the top, yet history is saying it happened like that. Now to decide what is better to go with, reality or toned down to acceptability of the masses? Any thoughts anyone?

Try some Cormac McCarthy and get back to us.

Back in the 70s I was a fireman and participated at some gory car wrecks; I think the gore is part of it and captures the flavor, just like cops with their crisp uniforms and patent-leather shoes who refused to help...sometimes cars landed upside down in water, and we needed help to keep the victims from drowning while we worked. If I was writing a tale about fire-rescue I'd insert the cop stuff, and piss off all the cops.

I'd also insert how ER docs push the gurneys into empty rooms and let the victims die.

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Another edit to the first 5000, figure I'll do that once more before moving on to the next 5000.

^^^^^ This is not going to happen.

 

[RjThoughts]

^^^^^ This is not going to happen.

I wrote that much this morning, I swear! I had to "translate" a manual from techno-speak to English for a bunch of new hires at an HMO.

 

[lance gt]

It has happened more than once that truth is stranger, or more brutal, than fiction.

Try some Cormac McCarthy and get back to us.

Back in the 70s I was a fireman and participated at some gory car wrecks; I think the gore is part of it and captures the flavor, just like cops with their crisp uniforms and patent-leather shoes who refused to help...sometimes cars landed upside down in water, and we needed help to keep the victims from drowning while we worked. If I was writing a tale about fire-rescue I'd insert the cop stuff, and piss off all the cops.

I'd also insert how ER docs push the gurneys into empty rooms and let the victims die.

I tend to agree and will go with my gut and keep the depravity of what they did. 400 years ago, there were no rules or laws regarding such acts and I feel I'm keeping true to what went on and not caving to the demands of weak-hearted readers who feel such brutality isn't warranted in the story.

I chose 4 acts as sport to kill the men, using the weapons at the time.

1) archers shoot at men tied to trees, aiming for the package.
2) men use Claymores to dismember their victim the fastest.
3) 2 men with axes compete to see who can split a man in half lengthwise with 1 blow.
4) Dirks are used to gouge a heart out and have it still beating in his hand.

I know those are heinous acts, but history has shown it has happened. I didn't get as much flack when I had my 'Bad guy' slice open a pregnant mother and watch the baby fall to the ground, before he squashed its head with his foot. That even made me cringe when I wrote it. The more real history I find, it makes my fictional history pale in comparrison. So my story has ended up starting as 30% real and 70% fictional to being the other way around.

Goal for the day...... make it as bloody and gory in detail as I can. lol

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I tend to agree and will go with my gut and keep the depravity of what they did. 400 years ago, there were no rules or laws regarding such acts and I feel I'm keeping true to what went on and not caving to the demands of weak-hearted readers who feel such brutality isn't warranted in the story.

I chose 4 acts as sport to kill the men, using the weapons at the time.

1) archers shoot at men tied to trees, aiming for the package.
2) men use Claymores to dismember their victim the fastest.
3) 2 men with axes compete to see who can split a man in half lengthwise with 1 blow.
4) Dirks are used to gouge a heart out and have it still beating in his hand.

I know those are heinous acts, but history has shown it has happened. I didn't get as much flack when I had my 'Bad guy' slice open a pregnant mother and watch the baby fall to the ground, before he squashed its head with his foot. That even made me cringe when I wrote it. The more real history I find, it makes my fictional history pale in comparrison. So my story has ended up starting as 30% real and 70% fictional to being the other way around.

Goal for the day...... make it as bloody and gory in detail as I can. lol

What disturbs me are real accounts of Treblinka death camp SS chasing small children and shooting them while laborers work and pretend nuthin is happening. To my way of thinking THAT is obscene.

But what you write happens in the real world, especially to prisoners of war. People live sheltered lives.

 

[lance gt]

What disturbs me are real accounts of Treblinka death camp SS chasing small children and shooting them while laborers work and pretend nuthin is happening. To my way of thinking THAT is obscene.

But what you write happens in the real world, especially to prisoners of war. People live sheltered lives.

So true,Jimmy. If people only knew what REALLY happened and not a glossed over account, their safe little worlds would crash in on them and leave them in a state of shock.

Men have used the most disgusting methods of acheiving their goals since the beginning of time, but as long as a little romance and sex happened, they can skip the truth and deny it. Spanish Inquisition anyone?

I have my characters doing things as real as they can be. The sex is no holds barred, the killing happens on a grand scale and death comes in many forms. Honour and merit is shown on one hand, while the darker side of the same man also shows through. History might show him as a hero to idolize, but reality uncovered, will show a man just as vile in his acts as those we despise in the villain.

 

[sr71plt]

So, the blood and the gore is the purpose of the story? If not, how much prominence need it be given in the story? If so, do you find the blood and gore erotic? That would be a reason for giving it highly graphic space in the story then--because it's what gets you off and was the reason you are writing the story.

The point isn't really to depict the life and reality of the time fully, is it? Otherwise you'd write extensively of them squatting in the bushes to deficate too.

If you're not writing the story to get off on the blood and gore, maybe you want to give more prominence to what you want your story to be about.

Write the story that you want to write and worry about where--if anywhere--to post it later.

On this site, the age rule makes a lot of historical pieces silly too. Through most of history, sexual activity came pretty early in life (and death came pretty early too--quite often before modern laws would permit them to have sex). But that's the way it is here.

 

[lovecraft68]

So true,Jimmy. If people only knew what REALLY happened and not a glossed over account, their safe little worlds would crash in on them and leave them in a state of shock..

Please tell me that you are not another one of these people who have studied some of the atrocities man has committed on their fellow man and somehow think you are "in the know" and wiser than the rest of us.

And even if you have lived through some, acting like no one else ever has and well all live in safe little worlds is an annoying statement. And it appears you are writing gore for no other reason then to try to make people go "oh, he is so sick, he must be soooo cool."

My logic behind that last remark is you keep stressing how brutal you are trying to be. To sort of repeat the question Pilot asked, how much of this brutality is necessary as opposed to what is the story really about?

Gore, like sex, has its place, but when contrived rings false.

That's just my two cents, I am mailing it from my safe little world, hoping someday I can be as worldly and wise as you.

 

[lovecraft68]

Back on topic, I am trying to master my damn muse. I set forward to write an incest story that was nudging at me while I was writing my fetish contest story. Now I am in that story and the muse is throwing BDSM into my head.

I refuse to change paths and will finish this story before I sink back into the land of S&M.

 

[RjThoughts]

Back on topic, I am trying to master my damn muse. I set forward to write an incest story that was nudging at me while I was writing my fetish contest story. Now I am in that story and the muse is throwing BDSM into my head.

I refuse to change paths and will finish this story before I sink back into the land of S&M.

I'm constantly in that fight between Muses: write a romantic story, no write an incest, no write a threesome, no romance, no write a superhero. Wish they would make up their freaking minds!

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm constantly in that fight between Muses: write a romantic story, no write an incest, no write a threesome, no romance, no write a superhero. Wish they would make up their freaking minds!

Exactly. But I have an ocd like approach to my writing and once locked on, don't like to switch gears, so this is pissing me off.

 

[RjThoughts]

Exactly. But I have an ocd like approach to my writing and once locked on, don't like to switch gears, so this is pissing me off.

Thank God I don't or I'd never be able to write techno-to-English manuals at work and come home and write the erotica/porn/etc I'm known to do.

 

[lance gt]

So, the blood and the gore is the purpose of the story? If not, how much prominence need it be given in the story? If so, do you find the blood and gore erotic? That would be a reason for giving it highly graphic space in the story then--because it's what gets you off and was the reason you are writing the story.

The point isn't really to depict the life and reality of the time fully, is it? Otherwise you'd write extensively of them squatting in the bushes to deficate too.

If you're not writing the story to get off on the blood and gore, maybe you want to give more prominence to what you want your story to be about.

Write the story that you want to write and worry about where--if anywhere--to post it later.

On this site, the age rule makes a lot of historical pieces silly too. Through most of history, sexual activity came pretty early in life (and death came pretty early too--quite often before modern laws would permit them to have sex). But that's the way it is here.

Blood is the thread of the story that ties it all together. Blood is used in many contexts throughout the story, not just the spilling of it.
The blood and gore is only in scenes that require it. In no way am I justifying it in an erotic sense, quite the opposite. Think 16th cent. Scottish highlands and the law was made by who held the sword. If they felt it was their right to dispatch a man in that fashion, no one questioned him.

The sex is depicted in the same fashion. Despite Catholicism being practiced by the majority of the people, adultery, homosexuality, lesbianism, group sex, masturbation were things that were reported by clergy travelling through the area. As much as I wasn't there at the time, I am trying to capture the essence of their characters living life in those circumstances and all genres are present in my story. As I mentioned in another post, this is 'kitchen sink' writing at it's best. Almost any genre out there, is in it. It has to be to make it realistic and plausible when being read.

When I posted the story in its first draft, I got away with one of the girls getting raped at 17 and only saying younger ones were done as well. It was part of the opening chapter and set the stage for the story. I said she was a season left to be 18, making her too young, but it was acceptable to Lit. I pulled the story and it has been under a massive re-write since.

As I said the other day, my goal was about embellishment and every scene has had something done to make it easy for the reader to become immersed in it.

 

[lance gt]

I'm constantly in that fight between Muses: write a romantic story, no write an incest, no write a threesome, no romance, no write a superhero. Wish they would make up their freaking minds!

I had that same fight and ended up writing one in each category just to stop the madness, lol. I wasn't concerned if they were good or not, I just wanted to try and write something in that genre and see if I could. It was a good experience to learn from definitely.

 

[PennLady]

Looks like we're off to IHOP for dinner, and then pick up a few Christmas things. Caps game tonight, but maybe some writing can get done after that. I really want to -- I even took a notebook to the library today and wrote some stuff out long hand, I was so anxious to get some writing done...

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, the 16th century. I'm not really sure how or why knowing what REALLY happened in the 16th century would make my world come crashing down.

 

[lance gt]

Please tell me that you are not another one of these people who have studied some of the atrocities man has committed on their fellow man and somehow think you are "in the know" and wiser than the rest of us.

And even if you have lived through some, acting like no one else ever has and well all live in safe little worlds is an annoying statement. And it appears you are writing gore for no other reason then to try to make people go "oh, he is so sick, he must be soooo cool."

My logic behind that last remark is you keep stressing how brutal you are trying to be. To sort of repeat the question Pilot asked, how much of this brutality is necessary as opposed to what is the story really about?

Gore, like sex, has its place, but when contrived rings false.

That's just my two cents, I am mailing it from my safe little world, hoping someday I can be as worldly and wise as you.

I say that because most people would rather believe something else happened than the reality. If you understand the truth of what happened, good for you, it's amazing how many don't.

Trying to understand the past mentality of man is quite daunting. Everything we know and practise, is gone and you have an entirely new set of circumstances to play by. Doing an incredible amount of research of the time and events, has led me to write about brutality, but the question I was concerned about, was how graphic can it be, before it's no longer acceptable for mainstream.

 

[sr71plt]

I say that because most people would rather believe something else happened than the reality.

In the 16th century? Really? My experience is that most people don't think much about anything that happened earlier than last Tuesday.

 

[lance gt]

Ah, the 16th century. I'm not really sure how or why knowing what REALLY happened in the 16th century would make my world come crashing down.

I believe the 'crashing down' part was in reference to present day events that are happening, not the 16th cent.

 

[PennLady]

Trying to understand the past mentality of man is quite daunting. Everything we know and practise, is gone and you have an entirely new set of circumstances to play by. Doing an incredible amount of research of the time and events, has led me to write about brutality, but the question I was concerned about, was how graphic can it be, before it's no longer acceptable for mainstream.

I'm not sure that's quite an answerable question - I mean, I've read a lot of books with a fair amount of violence. Murder mysteries are probably the easiest example. Often they describe the murder act in detail, and even if not, they often describe the aftermath, the body, in detail.

And it all probably goes back to the fact that there is a higher tolerance for violence than sex.

 

[lovecraft68]

I say that because most people would rather believe something else happened than the reality. If you understand the truth of what happened, good for you, it's amazing how many don't.

Trying to understand the past mentality of man is quite daunting. Everything we know and practise, is gone and you have an entirely new set of circumstances to play by. Doing an incredible amount of research of the time and events, has led me to write about brutality, but the question I was concerned about, was how graphic can it be, before it's no longer acceptable for mainstream.

Are you talking about here? Because this isn't mainstream, and probably has a lower tolerance of brutality.

And yes, many would like to live in "ignorance is bliss" rather than think that as a race we can be so inherently cruel.

And although you're delving into the past to find this, it is still here in the modern day which makes it even worse as we are supposed to be more sophisticated then back in the 16th century. Hitler was 70 years ago, a drop in the bucket time wise.

But not everyone is as shocked as you seem to think they will be, and if you are writing a fictional piece they may want to think you made it up anyway.

No offense to you, but I take offense at comments like "if people only knew what I know" comes across a little pretentiously.

My particular studies of history has been based on cults and their practices so I doubt anything you are coughing up would be anything I would consider too brutal.

I tossed a ritual killing into a story here for the hell of it and against the warning of my editor and some friends. The result? 4.81 people are not as easily offended as you think.

 

[lance gt]

I'm not sure that's quite an answerable question - I mean, I've read a lot of books with a fair amount of violence. Murder mysteries are probably the easiest example. Often they describe the murder act in detail, and even if not, they often describe the aftermath, the body, in detail.

And it all probably goes back to the fact that there is a higher tolerance for violence than sex.

This would go back to my earlier post when I mentioned the acts I was writing about. I'm trying to keep everything at the same level, without glorifying it, but bringing a descriptive reality to it. TV shows like CSI have given the masses a taste of the macabre and are once again dulling down the senses to make it acceptable.