Once women get behind the steering wheel... and other signs of progress

[Pure]

Saudi Arabia: Women Driving Will Have Sex, Report Says


12/ 3/11 11:20 AM ET AP


RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A report given to a high-level advisory group in Saudi Arabia claims that allowing women in the kingdom to drive could encourage premarital sex, a rights activist said Saturday.

The ultraconservative stance suggests increasing pressure on King Abdullah to retain the kingdom's male-only driving rules despite international criticism.

Rights activist Waleed Abu Alkhair said the document by a well-known academic was sent to the all-male Shura Council, which advises the monarchy. The report by Kamal Subhi claims that allowing women to drive will threaten the country's traditions of virgin brides, he said. The suggestion is that driving will allow greater mixing of genders and could promote sex.

Saudi women have staged several protests defying the driving ban. The king has already promised some reforms, including allowing women to vote in municipal elections in 2015.

===

Hamid Karzai, Afghanistan President, Pardons Imprisoned Rape Victim


By DEB RIECHMANN 12/ 1/11 02:34 PM ET AP

KABUL, Afghanistan -- Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday pardoned an Afghan woman serving a 12-year prison sentence for having sex out of wedlock after she was raped by a relative.

Karzai's office said in a statement that the woman and her attacker have agreed to marry. That would reverse an earlier decision by the 19-year-old woman, who had previously refused a judge's offer of freedom if she agreed to marry the rapist.

Her plight was highlighted in a documentary that the European Union blocked because it feared the women featured in the film would be in danger if it were shown.

More than 5,000 people recently signed a petition urging Karzai to release the woman. She had the man's child while in prison and raised her daughter behind bars, which is common among women imprisoned in Afghanistan.

A statement released by Karzai's office says that after hearing from judicial officials, the decision was made to forgive the rest of the sentence she received for having sex out of wedlock, a crime in Afghanistan. The presidential statement did not say when the woman was to be released or how much prison time had been pardoned.

The woman told The Associated Press in an interview last month that she had hoped that attention generated by the EU film might help her get released. With the film blocked, she said that she was losing hope and considering marrying her rapist as a way out. She said her attacker was pressuring her to stop giving interviews.

About half of the 300 to 400 women jailed in Afghanistan are imprisoned for so-called "moral crimes" such as sex outside marriage, or running away from their husbands, according to reports by the United Nations and research organizations. Fleeing husbands isn't considered a crime in Afghanistan.

 

[lovecraft68]

Saudi Arabia: Women Driving Will Have Sex, Report Says


12/ 3/11 11:20 AM ET AP


RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A report given to a high-level advisory group in Saudi Arabia claims that allowing women in the kingdom to drive could encourage premarital sex, a rights activist said Saturday.

The ultraconservative stance suggests increasing pressure on King Abdullah to retain the kingdom's male-only driving rules despite international criticism.

Rights activist Waleed Abu Alkhair said the document by a well-known academic was sent to the all-male Shura Council, which advises the monarchy. The report by Kamal Subhi claims that allowing women to drive will threaten the country's traditions of virgin brides, he said. The suggestion is that driving will allow greater mixing of genders and could promote sex.

Saudi women have staged several protests defying the driving ban. The king has already promised some reforms, including allowing women to vote in municipal elections in 2015.

===

Hamid Karzai, Afghanistan President, Pardons Imprisoned Rape Victim


By DEB RIECHMANN 12/ 1/11 02:34 PM ET AP

KABUL, Afghanistan -- Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday pardoned an Afghan woman serving a 12-year prison sentence for having sex out of wedlock after she was raped by a relative.

Karzai's office said in a statement that the woman and her attacker have agreed to marry. That would reverse an earlier decision by the 19-year-old woman, who had previously refused a judge's offer of freedom if she agreed to marry the rapist.

Her plight was highlighted in a documentary that the European Union blocked because it feared the women featured in the film would be in danger if it were shown.

More than 5,000 people recently signed a petition urging Karzai to release the woman. She had the man's child while in prison and raised her daughter behind bars, which is common among women imprisoned in Afghanistan.

A statement released by Karzai's office says that after hearing from judicial officials, the decision was made to forgive the rest of the sentence she received for having sex out of wedlock, a crime in Afghanistan. The presidential statement did not say when the woman was to be released or how much prison time had been pardoned.

The woman told The Associated Press in an interview last month that she had hoped that attention generated by the EU film might help her get released. With the film blocked, she said that she was losing hope and considering marrying her rapist as a way out. She said her attacker was pressuring her to stop giving interviews.

About half of the 300 to 400 women jailed in Afghanistan are imprisoned for so-called "moral crimes" such as sex outside marriage, or running away from their husbands, according to reports by the United Nations and research organizations. Fleeing husbands isn't considered a crime in Afghanistan.

Certainly makes the case that no matter what's been on going over here. This is still a great country to live in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Certainly makes the case that no matter what's been on going over here. This is still a great country to live in.

No, it makes the case that Afghanistan is a horrible country for women to live in. That doesn't prove that the USA is "great."

 

[TE999]

Hah! So driving equals promiscuity in the Arab world? Fundies are all alike it would seem.

This reminds me of the old joke about why Baptists don't encourage sexual intercourse among their parishioners because it might lead to dancing.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

No, it makes the case that Afghanistan is a horrible country for women to live in. That doesn't prove that the USA is "great."

Uh, that's Saudi, Stella, not Afghanistan. Afghanistan's worse.

 

[lovecraft68]

No, it makes the case that Afghanistan is a horrible country for women to live in. That doesn't prove that the USA is "great."

In Comparison to? Hell yeah it is.

As for the other people. Don't get me started ranting about the despicable, knuckle dragging pieces of shit that in habit the Middle East.

What disgusts me is when they bring their bullshit over here. You see the women wrapped head to toe and the men wearing whatever they want.

And now that you wound me up, have you seen those pigs? Average arab over here is a fat disgusting pig, who could give two shits what he looks like, but their women should worship them?

That's why middle eastern women love to fuck American men. at least they can find their cocks without a GPS.

But when we go to war over there we ignore that bullshit. we're their to try to pick a leader who will kiss our ass. And we suck the cock of Saudi Princes way too much to ever question their behavior which of course they claim is a "religious" mandate.

When Mohammed went to the mountain someone should have been there to blow it up.

OKay, done now. Happy Stella?

 

[Boxlicker101]

If you are honest about it, being able to drive does encourage, or at least enable promiscuity and non-marital sex. That's not a complaint, BTW. No doubt, you have heard the expression "Lovers' Lane." If a couple refers to "parking" they don't usually mean maneuvering their vehicle into a place to leave it for a while.

I remember seeing a very old cartoon from the New Yorker. A man and a woman were in a police station reporting a stolen car and he is carrying the car seat under his arm. When the cartoon was printed, seats were easily removable from automobiles.

 

[Pure]

driving, promiscuity, and survival

looking at driving and promiscuity issues in a wealthy country like Saudi Arabia,
should not obscure the really basic survival issues for women in much of the world. in Afghanistan, there is one of the highest rates of women dying in childbirth.

further consider this bit of info about India, and go to the 'dalit' page for a sample of the view from the bottom of the heap ["untouchables" in India-- such a stratum exists also in Korea and Japan].

Petition for the Elimination of Manual Scavenging

Every day 1.3 million people in India (of which more than 80% are Dalit ["untouchable"] women) are forced to clean human excrement with their bare hands for little to no wages, a practice called manual scavenging.

www.dalitnetwork.org


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...bout-her-mission/article2247508/?from=2259020

http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-viswanathan150206.htm


http://www.dalitnetwork.org/go?/dfn/donate

 

[SlickTony]

The patriarchs say that women driving leads to nonmarital sex. They know damn well that the first place a lot of women would drive, if they could, would be AWAY.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

And historically, they are correct. The real sexual revolution in the U.S. occurred when the automobile became a mass market product. Young people finally had a way to get out of the house and out of the sight of chaperones and the result was just what one would expect. I would, however, like to point out that back then it wasn't the women doing most of the driving. More autos=more sex. More freedom=more sex. Now isn't that just tooooooo bad . . .

 

[Cruel2BKind]

In Comparison to? Hell yeah it is.

As for the other people. Don't get me started ranting about the despicable, knuckle dragging pieces of shit that in habit the Middle East.

What disgusts me is when they bring their bullshit over here. You see the women wrapped head to toe and the men wearing whatever they want.

And now that you wound me up, have you seen those pigs? Average arab over here is a fat disgusting pig, who could give two shits what he looks like, but their women should worship them?

That's why middle eastern women love to fuck American men. at least they can find their cocks without a GPS.

But when we go to war over there we ignore that bullshit. we're their to try to pick a leader who will kiss our ass. And we suck the cock of Saudi Princes way too much to ever question their behavior which of course they claim is a "religious" mandate.

When Mohammed went to the mountain someone should have been there to blow it up.

OKay, done now. Happy Stella?

............

I don't think I can ever look at you the same way again.

This is so racist... I'm studying islam right now, and so much of what you have just said is ignorant bullshit. I am a woman, and I realize that gender equality is very far away, and I realize that it is often unfair, but to put down their entire religion and make such generalizations are wrong.

Every culture is different, and we shouldn't consider it our predestined duty to drag them into what we think is the light.

*with the exception of female circumcision, some things are just too disgusting and horrible to tolerate.

 

[sr71plt]

............

I don't think I can ever look at you the same way again.

You are only now figuring out how nasty and disgusting Lovecraft68 can be?

But I guess that goes with just letting him walk all over other forum members with abusive posts without comment--as long as it isn't you.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

You are only now figuring out how nasty and disgusting Lovecraft68 can be?

But I guess that goes with just letting him walk all over other forum members with abusive posts without comment--as long as it isn't you.

I understand that he's a jerk, but you can be pretty snippy yourself.

I've always respected you y'know. I like a lot of your stories (tit for tat being my favorite) and you're on the 250 best authors list and you usually deal with his shit in pretty funny and creative ways. I'm not the enemy here Sr71plt. Please don't be snippy with me!!! I like you!!

 

[sr71plt]

I understand that he's a jerk, but you can be pretty snippy yourself.

I've always respected you y'know. I like a lot of your stories (tit for tat being my favorite) and you're on the 250 best authors list and you usually deal with his shit in pretty funny and creative ways. I'm not the enemy here Sr71plt. Please don't be snippy with me!!! I like you!!

You posted that we were being equally abusive. So much for you. He's crapped on me for years in the nastiest possible ways. And you didn't notice. We are attacking each other equally? Give me a break.

P.S., if you had the shit rolled over you that I do here you would get snitty too. I guarantee it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

............

I don't think I can ever look at you the same way again.

This is so racist... I'm studying islam right now, and so much of what you have just said is ignorant bullshit. I am a woman, and I realize that gender equality is very far away, and I realize that it is often unfair, but to put down their entire religion and make such generalizations are wrong.

Every culture is different, and we shouldn't consider it our predestined duty to drag them into what we think is the light.

*with the exception of female circumcision, some things are just too disgusting and horrible to tolerate.

Do you honestly mean to say all cultural practices are valid? Do you think the cultural practice of throwing a widow onto her husband's funeral pyre and letting her burn to death is okay? Do you honestly believe convicting a raped woman of adultery is okay? The first one is not Islam, but it is a culture in Asia. Do you think it's okay to murder your daughter because she won't marry the man you want her to marry? How abut genital mutilation of women, which is a more accurate way to describe female circumcisiion? That's a cultural practice. Do you think that is alright.

I really hope you don't think all cultural practices are valid.

 

[Feotakahari]

Can't we have our cake and eat it too, saying both that Saudi Arabia is backwards, and that Lovecraft68 went too far? (I was also incredibly jarred by that post, if only for the next-to-last line--I have issues with certain Muslim denominations, but I know and like too many non-fundamentalist Muslims to insult Mohammed.)

 

[R. Richard]

And historically, they are correct. The real sexual revolution in the U.S. occurred when the automobile became a mass market product. Young people finally had a way to get out of the house and out of the sight of chaperones and the result was just what one would expect. I would, however, like to point out that back then it wasn't the women doing most of the driving. More autos=more sex. More freedom=more sex. Now isn't that just tooooooo bad . . .

I would disagree as to the start of the 'real sexual revolution' in the US. Up until WW II, a woman who had her own apartment was considered to be rather risque. However, with most of the men fighting WW II, women were moving to defense plants to work for the war effort. With a place of her own and the wish to make sure that her soldier remembered what he was going to come home to, the sexual revolution really started. Then the pill gave the sexual revolution a rocket boost! JMHO.

 

[sr71plt]

I would disagree as to the start of the 'real sexual revolution' in the US. Up until WW II, a woman who had her own apartment was considered to be rather risque. However, with most of the men fighting WW II, women were moving to defense plants to work for the war effort. With a place of her own and the wish to make sure that her soldier remembered what he was going to come home to, the sexual revolution really started. Then the pill gave the sexual revolution a rocket boost! JMHO.

I agree that women's role in WWII at least gave it a big bump if it didn't start it.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Do you honestly mean to say all cultural practices are valid? Do you think the cultural practice of throwing a widow onto her husband's funeral pyre and letting her burn to death is okay? Do you honestly believe convicting a raped woman of adultery is okay? The first one is not Islam, but it is a culture in Asia. Do you think it's okay to murder your daughter because she won't marry the man you want her to marry? How abut genital mutilation of women, which is a more accurate way to describe female circumcisiion? That's a cultural practice. Do you think that is alright.

I really hope you don't think all cultural practices are valid.

No I don't

I worded my frustration badly. Lovecraft went too far in that he insulted the religion itself, because at their core, no religion is inherently evil. It's just those who practice that condemn them.

For instance, how is the limitations of women in islam any worse then what the Christian missionaries who destroyed the written language of the maya?

Is Female Genital Cutting (as it is professionally known, I just wrote an article on it) really worse then the Spanish inquisition?

Is Bride Burning in India worse then the Salem witch trials? And before that the witch trials in Europe?

Every religion, every country, every culture has done horrible things. I don't think it's okay, but to just point a finger and blame Islam for every horrible thing that happens in Saudi Arabia is misguided and it wont do anything.

If you condemned religions for the acts that had been committed in the religion's name, you would have to become an atheist.

 

[Pure]

note to cruel

cruel2 If you condemned religions for the acts that had been committed in the religion's name, you would have to become an atheist.

no, it's not so simple: atheists in our century have not been slackers in the cruelty
department, Stalin & Mao (and thousands of like minded helpers), come to mind.

it would be great is all of us became less dangerous to our fellow human beings; bringing them towards a religion or convincing them not to have one (of the 'Great Religions'), seems neither here nor there. if they have one, it would be good to persuade them to adopt a more humane form; the same would apply if you met a
(atheist) marxist revolutionary type.

similarly it's pretty clear the examples in the OP, were culturally (perhaps nationally) based. The same applies to female genital cutting. Its source is not Islamic.