Life Choices

[Jax_Teller]

I am Dom my wife and I married as Master / slave. That was twelve yrs ago and 3 children ago. We have managed to live at times as the situation allowed. Now that the children are getting independent, My Wife-slave is only interested in sex just not as my slave anymore. She has been distant as a Slave aggressive sexually. She has said she wants our old life back but her actions speak VOLUMES. My Voice doesn't mean what it once did.

Our life together has always been around her submissiveness and my dominance. Now that is changing for her. I have doubts as to the relationship's sustainability if our roles evolve beyond our "Normal". I feel guilty that Even though I love her I am not happy in our relationship. Love is supposed to concur all, BUT the tensions arising from sexual issues are driving us apart.

I have always lived to MY Ideals. WHAT now though? do I just wave good bye to who and what I am just to maintain a relationship. This is reality. To put it bluntly I don't want just intercourse, I REQUIRE more. I have had all that up to the last yrar. We've been through so much that would have torn most vanilla couples apart, but we survived. In part I Believe that was because we were true to our roles to Ourselves. Now I am supposed to change?

I know the she needs to be reading this but As much as I want to I am afraid it would be the end of us. We have children. We can not simply go our own way.

Any one out there have and constructive input? I have been riding this out for over a year now.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Be prepared for some changes. Women undergo a midlife crises of their own, and it often means big big changes in relationship dynamics. I am betting that she's discovering herself to be less inclined to take orders-- used to be satisfying, not any more.

I doubt that you have to wave goodbye to everything you are. if you managed though, to live for YOUR ideals while you two were raising kids? Then I know good and goddamn well who DID a whole lot of waving goodbye to HER ideals.

Time for you to man up and compromise for the sake of the woman you have lived with all these years. You played it your way for a long time, now it's time to change your game for a while. Go ahead, it won't kill you.

 

[Ravenwind]

I hate to say it, but there's four options that stand before you...

1.) You step up your game and remind her of her place through dedicated obedience training and behavioral modification, ensuring your marriage lasts, but at the cost of your wife's short-term (and possibly long-term) happiness
2.) You back down and let the relationship become more vanilla, sacrificing your wants for hers, and ensuring your marriage lasts, but at the cost of your short-term (and possibly long-term) happiness.
3.) Talk to her about it until you can come to a compromise, her becoming more submissive once again, but you permitting her more sexual freedom to be aggressive every now and then... maintaining the status quo to some extent, but you both get what you want.
4.) Do nothing about it, and wind up in my shoes: happily divorced and free to find a more obedient sub.

Whose happiness is more important to you? Yours? Or your wife's? Are you willing to let the status quo continue for the sake of the kids, even unto the point of stagnation and separation?

As a Master, your happiness must come first... but if she cannot find happiness in *your* happiness, then it is in your hands to change the situation so that she may find happiness in pleasing you once again. Your title implies that you have *Mastered* her, owning complete control over her heart, mind, soul, and body... exert that control, and ensure that your voice carries weight to it once again.

I find the concept of dangling that which is desperately wanted juuuust out of reach, denying it for normal purposes, and then giving it as a reward for obedience to be an excellent means of behavior modification... Give her some tasks, ones that she will enjoy, that exemplifies her submission to you, and then reward her with permission to be a little sexually aggressive. Work your way to more difficult and distasteful tasks, and as a reward, give her her way a little more.

 

[BiBunny]

I hate to say it, but there's four options that stand before you...

1.) You step up your game and remind her of her place through dedicated obedience training and behavioral modification, ensuring your marriage lasts, but at the cost of your wife's short-term (and possibly long-term) happiness
2.) You back down and let the relationship become more vanilla, sacrificing your wants for hers, and ensuring your marriage lasts, but at the cost of your short-term (and possibly long-term) happiness.
3.) Talk to her about it until you can come to a compromise, her becoming more submissive once again, but you permitting her more sexual freedom to be aggressive every now and then... maintaining the status quo to some extent, but you both get what you want.
4.) Do nothing about it, and wind up in my shoes: happily divorced and free to find a more obedient sub.

Whose happiness is more important to you? Yours? Or your wife's? Are you willing to let the status quo continue for the sake of the kids, even unto the point of stagnation and separation?

As a Master, your happiness must come first... but if she cannot find happiness in *your* happiness, then it is in your hands to change the situation so that she may find happiness in pleasing you once again. Your title implies that you have *Mastered* her, owning complete control over her heart, mind, soul, and body... exert that control, and ensure that your voice carries weight to it once again.

I find the concept of dangling that which is desperately wanted juuuust out of reach, denying it for normal purposes, and then giving it as a reward for obedience to be an excellent means of behavior modification... Give her some tasks, ones that she will enjoy, that exemplifies her submission to you, and then reward her with permission to be a little sexually aggressive. Work your way to more difficult and distasteful tasks, and as a reward, give her her way a little more.

Statements like the one in bold make me twitch. Hard.

 

[Ravenwind]

Statements like the one in bold make me twitch. Hard.

There is a reason for it, however, and it is not arbitrary, nor out of selfishness. If the Master is not happy, how can they effectively provide for or guide their slave into happiness? In all things, the Dominant *has* to come first, to assure that the submissive may safely, easily, and effectively follow in suit.

After all... it is the Master, the Dominant, the Owner... it is *they* who lead... not the submissive.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Statements like that tell me I am in the presence of a romance-reader.

A while back I posted a link to a bit of gossip from the music world, about how some concert pianist and a renowned conductor ended twenty years of artistic collaboration. The article was full of the little intricate details, the five minutes of music that they could not compromise on, the back-stabbing and subterfuges each tried in furtherance of their separate and opposing visions.

But really-- the most telling detail was this: The pianist was in her mid-forties, and the composer was in his late seventies.

She had reached the age when she would not be told what to do. And he was well-accustomed to dominating every musician who worked under him.

There is no way in hell that she could ever bring him to respect her judgement after a lifetime of autocracy, so-- she re-recorded the music that they had fought over, elsewhere.

With a group of musicians who respect her leadership.

They did it her way.

Take from this what you will.

 

[Ravenwind]

Statements like that tell me I am in the presence of a romance-reader.

If you mean me, nope, just a jaded ex-wife turned sub then trained to be a Domme under Old Guard-inspired philosophies.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you mean me, nope, just a jaded ex-wife turned sub then trained to be a Domme under Old Guard-inspired philosophies.

What are Old Guard-inspired philosophies, please?

 

[BiBunny]

There is a reason for it, however, and it is not arbitrary, nor out of selfishness. If the Master is not happy, how can they effectively provide for or guide their slave into happiness? In all things, the Dominant *has* to come first, to assure that the submissive may safely, easily, and effectively follow in suit.

After all... it is the Master, the Dominant, the Owner... it is *they* who lead... not the submissive.

I own a small business. I "lead" fine when I'm tired, grumpy, sick, depressed, or mad as hell. I don't need to surround myself with ass-kissers to get shit done.

I'm not attacking you, Ravenwind. I'm just old, tired, and bitter, and threads like this make me remember why I keep thinking I've got nothing to give when it comes to advice anymore.

 

[Ravenwind]

What are Old Guard-inspired philosophies, please?

A 24/7 lifestyle where sex is not the predominant factor in the relationship, but the power exchange is. One where the sub adheres toward protocol observance and obedience, and the Dominant maintains total control at all times, over all aspects of the sub's existence. Honor, respect, integrity, and position define the person, not the other way around. Guidance, patience, love, compassion, discipline, strength, confidence, truth, and sincerity are key virtues held by Dom/mes in training their subs. And due to the nature of those virtues, those who had taught me are rather... exclusive.

In the end... the Dom/me controls the sub for the sake of their betterment, and their own empowerment... to purge the sub of imperfections, and make them the best person that they can be.

Mind you... only inspired. Not actual. Has nothing to do with gay sailors, leather, or motorcycles.

 

[Keroin]

I don't usually jump into these things, (and I'm certain I'll regret it), but...

Ravenwind, you're creeping me out. I've come to understand that there are a million flavours of BDSM but what you're putting forth here has an almost Jim Jones/Stepford Wives vibe about it. Can't put my finger on exactly why.

Hm.

Maybe it was the word "purge"?

Hm.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Statements like the one in bold make me twitch. Hard.

Me too. I find such statements to be wholly incompatible with marriage and lifetime relationships in general. If you don't want to treat your significant other as a partner in life, not just your vassal, don't bloody get married or make a life-long commitment to them. I'm sorry, but I think that if you decide to spend your life with someone, you need to be prepared to support them when life changes. If you marry your "slave", make sure you're going to be happy with that PERSON too. If things change and you can't stick with it, then you shouldn't. That's not fair to anyone involved, including the children.

(disclaimer: I realize these statements are based on my personal opinion of what marriage/lifetime commitments should be. I know some people will disagree. I hold to my opinion.)

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I don't usually jump into these things, (and I'm certain I'll regret it), but...

Ravenwind, you're creeping me out. I've come to understand that there are a million flavours of BDSM but what you're putting forth here has an almost Jim Jones/Stepford Wives vibe about it. Can't put my finger on exactly why.

Hm.

Maybe it was the word "purge"?

Hm.

That's because that's exactly what it sounds like.

 

[CutieMouse]

I hate to say it, but there's four options that stand before you...

1.) You step up your game and remind her of her place through dedicated obedience training and behavioral modification, ensuring your marriage lasts, but at the cost of your wife's short-term (and possibly long-term) happiness
2.) You back down and let the relationship become more vanilla, sacrificing your wants for hers, and ensuring your marriage lasts, but at the cost of your short-term (and possibly long-term) happiness.
3.) Talk to her about it until you can come to a compromise, her becoming more submissive once again, but you permitting her more sexual freedom to be aggressive every now and then... maintaining the status quo to some extent, but you both get what you want.
4.) Do nothing about it, and wind up in my shoes: happily divorced and free to find a more obedient sub.

Whose happiness is more important to you? Yours? Or your wife's? Are you willing to let the status quo continue for the sake of the kids, even unto the point of stagnation and separation?

As a Master, your happiness must come first... but if she cannot find happiness in *your* happiness, then it is in your hands to change the situation so that she may find happiness in pleasing you once again. Your title implies that you have *Mastered* her, owning complete control over her heart, mind, soul, and body... exert that control, and ensure that your voice carries weight to it once again.

Not to add to the dog pile, but...

Why is a Master's happiness more important than the submissive/slave's happiness? One could just as easily turn that comment around, and point out that an unhappy submissive/slave can easily lose all interest/desire in serving. I am one hell of a submissive partner *when happy*... I suck ass at it [submission] when unhappy.

Adults in loving relationships tend to compromise - even those who structure their relationships around the dynamics of power exchange.

The OP goes into how "OMG she's in her 40s and doesn't want to submit any more blahblahblah!!!" I'm not 100% on board with Stella's interpretation (that she needs more control)... I wonder if that the glowing happy, perfect slave modus operandi could have masked feelings of abandonment [emotional or otherwise], being overwhelmed or burdened [3 kids in 12 years?], a sense of unfairness [from inequality], and/or a lack of investment [on the Master's part as the family evolves].

You've been through "so much that would have torn vanilla couples apart"? I'd argue that your issues aren't specifically D/s - they are relationship issues. Love does not conquer all. Anyone who thinks it does is living in lala land. The OP would be well advised to find set aside some time to talk as equals and/or find a family/marriage therapist and reassess how to make the marriage (and D/s stuff) work with the family NOW - not how the family used to be. The children are gaining independence... guess what? Maybe Mom [submissive/slave] isn't comfortable deferring around the children for fear it undermines her authority with them. Maybe Mom [submissive/slave] has had so many people taking [needing/demanding/wanting] to come first, that shes' maxed out. Maybe she really does miss being submissive, she just doesn't now HOW, with reality (husband, 3 kids, world to run) staring her in the face every morning.

I find the concept of dangling that which is desperately wanted juuuust out of reach, denying it for normal purposes, and then giving it as a reward for obedience to be an excellent means of behavior modification... Give her some tasks, ones that she will enjoy, that exemplifies her submission to you, and then reward her with permission to be a little sexually aggressive. Work your way to more difficult and distasteful tasks, and as a reward, give her her way a little more.

I find the concept of doing that bolded bit with a woman who's got 3 children elementary age (and possibly under), in a marriage that has apparently gone through its share of struggles, to be idiotic.

 

[Ravenwind]

A poor choice of word, I'll admit... but "purge" is really the best word I could think of to describe "the act of getting rid of selfishness, arrogance, impatience, cowardice, insecurity, disloyalty, untrustworthiness, weakness, and other ill-favored traits". If you can think of a better one, I'd be happy to reword it.

I'll tell you what, though... an 8 mile walk in the middle of a God-forsaken desert with no water, in the middle of the day, and cactus needles buried deep into my hand... all to please my Master... has, in a very roundabout way... cured me of my arachnaphobia, melissophobia, acrophobia, and enochlophobia; and gotten me in a situation where I am working 4 jobs (despite technically being unemployed).

Too long of a story to tell here... but... I think The Story Of O sums it up to some extent. Minus the multi-assailant-rape, of course... but the purpose is still the same... Make the slave perfect in every way.

 

[BiBunny]

Me too. I find such statements to be wholly incompatible with marriage and lifetime relationships in general. If you don't want to treat your significant other as a partner in life, not just your vassal, don't bloody get married or make a life-long commitment to them. I'm sorry, but I think that if you decide to spend your life with someone, you need to be prepared to support them when life changes. If you marry your "slave", make sure you're going to be happy with that PERSON too. If things change and you can't stick with it, then you shouldn't. That's not fair to anyone involved, including the children.

(disclaimer: I realize these statements are based on my personal opinion of what marriage/lifetime commitments should be. I know some people will disagree. I hold to my opinion.)

Not to add to the dog pile, but...

Why is a Master's happiness more important than the submissive/slave's happiness? One could just as easily turn that comment around, and point out that an unhappy submissive/slave can easily lose all interest/desire in serving. I am one hell of a submissive partner *when happy*... I suck ass at it [submission] when unhappy.

Adults in loving relationships tend to compromise - even those who structure their relationships around the dynamics of power exchange.

The OP goes into how "OMG she's in her 40s and doesn't want to submit any more blahblahblah!!!" I'm not 100% on board with Stella's interpretation (that she needs more control)... I wonder if that the glowing happy, perfect slave modus operandi could have masked feelings of abandonment [emotional or otherwise], being overwhelmed or burdened [3 kids in 12 years?], a sense of unfairness [from inequality], and/or a lack of investment [on the Master's part as the family evolves].

You've been through "so much that would have torn vanilla couples apart"? I'd argue that your issues aren't specifically D/s - they are relationship issues. Love does not conquer all. Anyone who thinks it does is living in lala land. The OP would be well advised to find set aside some time to talk as equals and/or find a family/marriage therapist and reassess how to make the marriage (and D/s stuff) work with the family NOW - not how the family used to be. The children are gaining independence... guess what? Maybe Mom [submissive/slave] isn't comfortable deferring around the children for fear it undermines her authority with them. Maybe Mom [submissive/slave] has had so many people taking [needing/demanding/wanting] to come first, that shes' maxed out. Maybe she really does miss being submissive, she just doesn't now HOW, with reality (husband, 3 kids, world to run) staring her in the face every morning.



I find the concept of doing that bolded bit with a woman who's got 3 children elementary age (and possibly under), in a marriage that has apparently gone through its share of struggles, to be idiotic.

I you both so much.

 

[HottieMama]

Has nothing to do with gay sailors, leather, or motorcycles.

Unfortuately, more het D/s relationships could learn a LOT from gay sailors, leather...etc...

 

[Stella_Omega]

A poor choice of word, I'll admit... but "purge" is really the best word I could think of to describe "the act of getting rid of selfishness, arrogance, impatience, cowardice, insecurity, disloyalty, untrustworthiness, weakness, and other ill-favored traits". If you can think of a better one, I'd be happy to reword it.

The word I'm groping towards is... hmm. "Hubris," is pretty close.

Too long of a story to tell here... but... I think The Story Of O sums it up to some extent. Minus the multi-assailant-rape, of course... but the purpose is still the same... Make the slave perfect in every way.

Perfect for what? O kills herself at the end of that novel (which is why the Powers That Be decided to call it literature, by the way, where a happy ending would have been mere smut and Romance.)

 

[ownedsubgal]

I'm not attacking you, Ravenwind. I'm just old, tired, and bitter, and threads like this make me remember why I keep thinking I've got nothing to give when it comes to advice anymore.

i'm old and tired too, and likewise don't feel i have anything to offer when it comes to advising others, never did really. so rather than attempt to offer any tips or advice, i'll just say this...

a Master's happiness DOES come first. that a Master's will DOES come first. i am sorry but that is part and parcel of choosing a relationship based on ownership, rather than partnership. it does not mean that a slave's feelings/needs/desires/thoughts/whatever are irrelevant, it means simply that they cannot be the focus of the relationship. it also means that the fate of the slave lies very much in the hands of their Owner, and it is entirely their choice on how to prioritize a slave's wants/needs/happiness. that is not BDSM pc or what people like to hear, but that is slavery (and kinda why it's not for everyone).

however it doesn't read to me like the OP is in, or was ever in, such a relationship. a lack of sexual submission is the only thing mentioned, as if that were the focus of a D/s lifestyle, much less slavery. evolving sexual incompatibility is a difficult issue but a very common one...however it has no relation to M/s as i know it.

yep, i am old as hell.

 

[BiBunny]

i'm old and tired too, and likewise don't feel i have anything to offer when it comes to advising others, never did really. so rather than attempt to offer any tips or advice, i'll just say this...

a Master's happiness DOES come first. that a Master's will DOES come first. i am sorry but that is part and parcel of choosing a relationship based on ownership, rather than partnership. it does not mean that a slave's feelings/needs/desires/thoughts/whatever are irrelevant, it means simply that they cannot be the focus of the relationship. it also means that the fate of the slave lies very much in the hands of their Owner, and it is entirely their choice on how to prioritize a slave's wants/needs/happiness. that is not BDSM pc or what people like to hear, but that is slavery (and kinda why it's not for everyone).

however it doesn't read to me like the OP is in, or was ever in, such a relationship. a lack of sexual submission is the only thing mentioned, as if that were the focus of a D/s lifestyle, much less slavery. evolving sexual incompatibility is a difficult issue but a very common one...however it has no relation to M/s as i know it.

yep, i am old as hell.

I try *not* to think about how old I am nowadays.

Oddly enough, your relationship doesn't set my teeth on edge quite like some other people's do. I think it's because you and your Daddy have never made out like what you do is for the uplifting and enlightenment of the slave, blah, blah, blah.

If people choose to codify selfishness (for lack of better word) into a relationship, so be it. Just call a spade a spade, please.

Again, I'm old, tired, bitter, used up, and angry at the world, so take what I have to say with several large grains of salt.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Perfect for what? O kills herself at the end of that novel

Really?

I could never get through it, the writing style didn't especially agree with me, so I never found it to be sexy, or profound or anything. Just boring.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Me too. I find such statements to be wholly incompatible with marriage and lifetime relationships in general. If you don't want to treat your significant other as a partner in life, not just your vassal, don't bloody get married or make a life-long commitment to them. I'm sorry, but I think that if you decide to spend your life with someone, you need to be prepared to support them when life changes. If you marry your "slave", make sure you're going to be happy with that PERSON too. If things change and you can't stick with it, then you shouldn't. That's not fair to anyone involved, including the children.

(disclaimer: I realize these statements are based on my personal opinion of what marriage/lifetime commitments should be. I know some people will disagree. I hold to my opinion.)

I like this post, it reflects much of what I think.

We're having a lot of 'what do you want for the future?' type talks lately, as we move towards a FT life together, and a lot of this stuff is on my mind.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I like this post, it reflects much of what I think.

We're having a lot of 'what do you want for the future?' type talks lately, as we move towards a FT life together, and a lot of this stuff is on my mind.

Pardon me for asking, but, what is FT?

 

[subwannabe]

This kind of reminds me of a post I made to another thread which admittedly was some kind of a hijack of the OP. In it I asked what happens when all of your fantasies have been fulfilled. What's next? If you don't have any dreams or goals left anymore, where does your life go from there? Maybe this is where your wife is. She's been there, done that and it has now degraded into just routine. She's tired of the routine. True marriage, especially long ones, are full of compromise. Maybe the two of you have come to the point of compromise. Maybe she can fulfill your needs half the time and you can fulfill her new "vanilla" needs the other half of the time. Some kind of communication, compromise/counseling seems to be in order. Good luck.

 

[Ravenwind]

Perfect for what?

Serving the needs and wants of the Master. osg and Hottiemama put it best, quite frankly. Slavery is not for everyone. It is not about the slave having equal spotlight time as the Master. It is about the Master doing what is best for him/herself, for the sub, and for the both of them/the house collectively.

And as to the whole of the uplifting of the slave... "I cannot use My toy, if it is broken". I can't very well use an arachnaphobic slave to go clean out a shed full of spiders, now, can I? Either I'm going to have to do it myself (which I'm not about to do, it's the slave's task), or I'm going to have to fix that which is broken. Get rid of the fear, and then instill an appreciation for spider-killing. Then send the slave out there with a few cans of Raid.

Same applies to the OP... If you are a Master in deed, and not merely in title, then fix that which is broken, instill a new appreciation for what you want her to do... and get'er done. It is that simple. There should be no beating around the bush with it.

I find the concept of doing that bolded bit with a woman who's got 3 children elementary age (and possibly under), in a marriage that has apparently gone through its share of struggles, to be idiotic.

I found peace by doing so as my marriage of 15 years fell apart (and with twin teenage boys, it's not much different than elementary school kids when it comes to "keeping an eye on them"). The only thing that kept me going, to be honest, *was* being trained to please my Master: it is, quite honestly, the only reason I'm still walking this earth instead of dead by my stepmother's hands, or living on the streets right now. Long story, but hey, idiotic things work sometimes.