tormented

[Jaded_One]

I was reading a thread that chronicled days from a slave's life. It was at once both fascinating and disturbing. When I came to the entry that described the slave being required to lick her Owner's cum off the floor I balked.

My "common" sense tells me that anyone who would ask me to do that could not really and truly have my best interests at heart. Which immediately kicked off the internal mental debate with all sides weighing in. One side stressing, don't judge... you can not know what their relationship is... another side piping up with "can you really call yourself submissive if you're going to pick and chose what you will and will not do"... and yet another voice asking "but if it causes me such mental anguish to comply... how is that different from abuse?" With yet another voice asking "am I the only one who thinks this is cruel and unusual?"

What I wonder is does anyone else struggle with what their Owner/Master asks of them... when their brain says "this is nuts"?

ps... no relation to Sybil

 

[Stella_Omega]

Dominance is, after all, about power. One person has more of it than the other.

You want to remember that a dominant mostly has their own interests at heart, more than yours. He might tell you to do that because it turns him the fuck ON. He might rationalise something extra-humiliating by claiming that he is getting his slave past a hesitation or whatever.

Personally, licking cum off the floor wouldn't bother me that much. Hearing someone tell me I'm worthless or stupid-- that would be a deal breaker for me. Period-- probably no second chance.

It's perfectly reasonable to have limits in what you will or will not do, and perfectly within your REAL rights as a human being, to hold your dominant to them. It doesn't make you not a sub, or him not a dom, in the context of your relationship. Genuine 24/7 is mighty rare.

 

[Jaded_One]

It's perfectly reasonable to have limits in what you will or will not do, and perfectly within your REAL rights as a human being, to hold your dominant to them. It doesn't make you not a sub, or him not a dom, in the context of your relationship. Genuine 24/7 is mighty rare.

Thank you Stella, for your reply... you always have a clear, concise view that I value. I appreciate your ability to get to the heart of the matter and call it like you see it. It helps. The conflict for me comes from a genuine desire to please with my own sense of this is not okay.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you Stella, for your reply... you always have a clear, concise view that I value. I appreciate your ability to get to the heart of the matter and call it like you see it. It helps. The conflict for me comes from a genuine desire to please with my own sense of this is not okay.

There's no need to over-identify with the writer-- I presume this is not something your Dom would ever tell you to do... But I know that impulse awfully well myself.

 

[midwestyankee]

Jaded_One, what is it about being told to lick cum off the floor that you consider cruel and unusual? While I realize that this is held up as an example to give your general question a shape, perhaps if you can answer my question it might be easier for us to share our experience along the same lines.

My take is that as long as the condition of the floor is reasonable clean, it's not a life-threatening act to make contact with it with your tongue. Thus, I'm curious about what is behind your feeling that it's a cruel dominant who would require this of you.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Hmmmm, that just makes me think I need to be extra thorough when sweeping/mopping/vaccuuming... just in case.

eta: Though, yes, I often ask myself that question. Am I really x if I want to do y and z the way I like? Nevermind that I still do it the other way anyway, and then really get into it. *sigh* I confuse myself.

 

[CutieMouse]

I was reading a thread that chronicled days from a slave's life. It was at once both fascinating and disturbing. When I came to the entry that described the slave being required to lick her Owner's cum off the floor I balked.

My "common" sense tells me that anyone who would ask me to do that could not really and truly have my best interests at heart.

Which is why everyone gets to decide what does, and doesn't, "work" for them regarding D/s... because your reaction was "OMG that cruel cruel bastard!!" and my reaction was "Thank goodness there are people in my life who accept the parts of me that sometimes I don't understand, myself." LOL

Which immediately kicked off the internal mental debate with all sides weighing in. One side stressing, don't judge... you can not know what their relationship is... another side piping up with "can you really call yourself submissive if you're going to pick and chose what you will and will not do"... and yet another voice asking "but if it causes me such mental anguish to comply... how is that different from abuse?" With yet another voice asking "am I the only one who thinks this is cruel and unusual?"

What I wonder is does anyone else struggle with what their Owner/Master asks of them... when their brain says "this is nuts"?

ps... no relation to Sybil

Yes, you can call yourself submissive and still pick and choose what you will or won't do. It's called negotiation.

As for the "this is nuts" thing... it's rarely what The Men™ ask of me; more often than not, *I* am the one asking if I'm weird, crazy, strange for enjoying the things I do.

 

[Jaded_One]

Jaded_One, what is it about being told to lick cum off the floor that you consider cruel and unusual? While I realize that this is held up as an example to give your general question a shape, perhaps if you can answer my question it might be easier for us to share our experience along the same lines.

My take is that as long as the condition of the floor is reasonable clean, it's not a life-threatening act to make contact with it with your tongue. Thus, I'm curious about what is behind your feeling that it's a cruel dominant who would require this of you.

The example that was given was a bathroom floor... public.... and no matter how clean one's home is.... would you be willing to lick it? If your common sense tells you that this is not something a rational human being would do... how far do you let your Master take you into the irrational? And why is this necessary? Is this a show of "proof" of a slave/sub's desire to please?

Just to clarify... I didn't say that the Dominant was cruel... just that the command was.

Please understand that I ask these questions in an effort to clarify in my own mind who I am. I am grateful for you taking the time to respond.

 

[CutieMouse]

The example that was given was a bathroom floor... public.... and no matter how clean one's home is.... would you be willing to lick it? If your common sense tells you that this is not something a rational human being would do... how far do you let your Master take you into the irrational? And why is this necessary? Is this a show of "proof" of a slave/sub's desire to please?

Just to clarify... I didn't say that the Dominant was cruel... just that the command was.

Please understand that I ask these questions in an effort to clarify in my own mind who I am. I am grateful for you taking the time to respond.

In the right dynamic?

(meaning I knew I was loved, respected, partnered, yadaydayada)

Hell yes, I would.

It has nothing to do with "proving" myself. *For me* those sorts of things fall under this love/hate umbrella of need. On some level I need certain things, because when it's all said and done... he/they [The Men™] still understand, appreciate, love, enjoy, and respect me in spite of/in part because of those darker, more twisted parts of who I am.

 

[Jaded_One]

There's no need to over-identify with the writer-- I presume this is not something your Dom would ever tell you to do... But I know that impulse awfully well myself.

God I love this forum.... I actually did ask my Dom if he would ever ask that of me... he said he could think of much better places to put his cum.. lol... but I can't help but identify with the writers.

Hmmmm, that just makes me think I need to be extra thorough when sweeping/mopping/vaccuuming... just in case.

eta: Though, yes, I often ask myself that question. Am I really x if I want to do y and z the way I like? Nevermind that I still do it the other way anyway, and then really get into it. *sigh* I confuse myself.

Ah Lizzie... perhaps that's the crux of the issue... my floors never seem clean enough to "eat" off.... and yes... I feel that same confusion. If A is true.. and B is true... then A + B must be true...

Which is why everyone gets to decide what does, and doesn't, "work" for them regarding D/s... because your reaction was "OMG that cruel cruel bastard!!" and my reaction was "Thank goodness there are people in my life who accept the parts of me that sometimes I don't understand, myself." LOL



Yes, you can call yourself submissive and still pick and choose what you will or won't do. It's called negotiation.

As for the "this is nuts" thing... it's rarely what The Men™ ask of me; more often than not, *I* am the one asking if I'm weird, crazy, strange for enjoying the things I do.

Hah!!! I already know I'm weird, crazy, strange.... do I just have to prove it? lol I won't deny that I don't understand all that is acceptable or even welcomed to others. Just as I wouldn't expect my co-workers to understand what I love. Perhaps what scares me is that line in the sand that I drew when I first began exploring my submissive side seems to keep moving into darker territory. What happens if I let go of what I thought was.. rational, common sense... whatever...

Again... I don't view the Master as being cruel... I simply use the term "cruel and unusual" with regards to the punishment because it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read it.

 

[Etoile]

On the list of things a Master can do to a slave that will hurt them, this is pretty darn low on the list. I just got down on the floor right now and licked it (hardwood). Came back up on the bed and I'm fine. It really seems like a mental block for you in the case of licking cum off the floor - germphobia? There's not really anything inherently awful about licking the floor.

As for the main question, yeah, I've had moments like that. One that I remember crystal clear is when Daddy wanted to pierce my nipples with a tapestry needle, and hang bells off them, so they'd ring when I was being fucked. It was an incredibly poorly thought out plan, and I didn't allow it - I fled and hid. I got in trouble for that, but I didn't have to do the horrible thing. I don't think it means you're not submissive if you're defiant once in a blue moon. It means you're human. You take your punishment and you're done. Maybe you have a conversation about why it bothers you (we did). But it's not the end of the world.

 

[Jaydoes]

On the list of things a Master can do to a slave that will hurt them, this is pretty darn low on the list. I just got down on the floor right now and licked it (hardwood). Came back up on the bed and I'm fine. It really seems like a mental block for you in the case of licking cum off the floor - germphobia? There's not really anything inherently awful about licking the floor.

As for the main question, yeah, I've had moments like that. One that I remember crystal clear is when Daddy wanted to pierce my nipples with a tapestry needle, and hang bells off them, so they'd ring when I was being fucked. It was an incredibly poorly thought out plan, and I didn't allow it - I fled and hid. I got in trouble for that, but I didn't have to do the horrible thing. I don't think it means you're not submissive if you're defiant once in a blue moon. It means you're human. You take your punishment and you're done. Maybe you have a conversation about why it bothers you (we did). But it's not the end of the world.

I think it may be true that people, both subs and doms, especially ones without much experience...put too much emphasis on the absolutes...subs think they HAVE to obey every command given them, or doms think that a sub must ALWAYS obey his commands.
Dom/sub relationships, just like any other relationship are something that you build and work on as you go. Personally, I have never, nor have I wanted to, force a sub to do something she was disgusted by just because I knew if I demanded it at just the right time, she might do it. I think you can work with each others, desires and limits if you try.
Now, thats not to say that I haven't ordered subs to do something that was more punishment than pleasure. I think a good sub accepts discipline and punishment and I think a good dom knows where the line is for each sub.
what I suggest to newbies, and I've often done in my own relationships, is given a sub a word, much like a safe word that she can use to convey to me that this is something she doesn't wish to do and is willing to accept a punishment or another command in its place. I actually find this to be a turn on, because there's a system of graduated disciplines in place so that each time she uses this word, the discipline is a little more stiff than last time. This creates conflict in the subs mind as she tries to decide whether she'll do what you commanded or whether she's willing to accept the discipline that she knows will be the result. and as many of you know, conflicted subs is a very hot thing.

 

[MissHolly]

especially ones without much experience... think they HAVE to obey every command given them, or doms think that a sub must ALWAYS obey his commands.

I admit...this is something I struggle with. Being relatively new...I do not have a clear picture of what I can and cannot say within the dynamics of our relationship. After all...its the act of submission, or serving, that turns me on. And my worst day is when I think I have disappointed Master. While I cant say I have actually said "no", I have expressed concerns that were then addressed and resolved, yet I still feel it isnt my place to object.

On the other side of that coin...I can say Master has required me to do things I would never done on my own...and in the end...I was so pleased that he knew me well enough to push me beyond my comfort zone...and I am always rewarded greatly for it!

I feel there is a fine line I walk...never wanting to cross it. So far, so good...but I still have a lot to learn.

 

[DiscusDave]

Did everyone forget about the "5 second" (or in your neck of the woods, maybe 10 second) rule?

Okay, now all joking aside I think this poses an interesting question in a Dom[me]/Master's mind as well. For me personally, I have never, nor will I ever ask or command a sub to do something for no reason. Even if the reason is simply because it turns me on, there will always be a reason. Am I out to push a sub past a limit every single time I ask her to do something? No. Are there situations where I would push? You bet your bottom dollar. The thing is for me, I'd only do the latter if the relationship has developed enough to where that is okay. When she knows I would push, and has enough trust in me to do so, I push. To me, I'd rather have a sub physically yearn to do something she had previously never wanted to do, because she wants to please me so badly and knows it will, and wait a longer time to get to that point; than have a sub begrudgingly do as she was told early on against her ultimate wishes. Don't know whether that was worded well or not, but I don't know how else to put it.

I also believe, though, that it is very dependent on the personal dynamic of the people involved. I wouldn't be upset if a sub said to me as her Dom, that she wasn't into certain things and would rather not do them. In my opinion, though, if a "slave" came up to me as her Master, she will do as I damn well say. If the power exchange is "total" then I almost throw rationality out the window, because there is a certain order of things that is expected. At least in my eyes. The Master gives a command, the slave does it. Period. If it is a Dom[me]/sub dynamic, then there is a bit more wiggle room. And still in my opinion, if it's a Top/bottom dynamic there is even more wiggle room. Granted you could have a Top that expects every command followed to a "T" and a Master who is a-okay with a slave going off and doing whatever. I just see it a certain way.

On the topic of rational thinking though... I mean, as I have explored the "darker" side of my sexuality what I thought was completely irrational has now either become rational or at least less irrational. If that makes sense. i believe that is the case with logic in general as we mature and age. The requests my parents gave me as a child seemed completely out of the sphere of rational and logical thought. Clean my room for a family party.... but I was not allowed to have anyone in my room during the party. How does that make sense? But now as I have become older, I realize that it wasn't actually irrational, per se. It was just the context I had back then. ah how times change.

 

[Jaded_One]

On the topic of rational thinking though... I mean, as I have explored the "darker" side of my sexuality what I thought was completely irrational has now either become rational or at least less irrational. If that makes sense. i believe that is the case with logic in general as we mature and age. The requests my parents gave me as a child seemed completely out of the sphere of rational and logical thought. Clean my room for a family party.... but I was not allowed to have anyone in my room during the party. How does that make sense? But now as I have become older, I realize that it wasn't actually irrational, per se. It was just the context I had back then. ah how times change.

First.. lol at the 5 second rule...

I think you may have hit the crux of the issue... what is rational.. and to whom? If we turn off the rational, how do we protect ourselves? Do we go purely by instinct or gut feeling? Is this truly the nature of the Dom/sub relationship, where I turn off these devices and turn myself over? It feels as though the deeper you get into the layers of power exchanging, the more questions that arise.

 

[naughty4Daddy]

I think you may have hit the crux of the issue... what is rational.. and to whom? If we turn off the rational, how do we protect ourselves? Do we go purely by instinct or gut feeling? Is this truly the nature of the Dom/sub relationship, where I turn off these devices and turn myself over? It feels as though the deeper you get into the layers of power exchanging, the more questions that arise.

Jaded_One, I think we may be thinking along the same lines. To me, it seems to be an issue of trust - how do I know that this person really has my best interest in mind? How am I able to turn myself over completely if I'm not 120% sure that I'll be safe or comfortable. Whilst submission does entail having to venture out of one's comfort zone, I do think that safe, sane and consensual always has to apply, which means even when your dom is taking you out of your comfort zone, it is at a pace and at a degree that you are still relatively comfortable with having him control. I think your reaction to having to lick cum off to floor, similar to mine, is more of an emotional one - it seems cold and uncaring, treating you as if he couldn't care less about your well-being, whilst you are on the other hand, prioritizing his pleasure and happiness over your own. The question I always ask myself is to what extent is he making me do this just because he only wants to please himself? I may derive pleasure from knowing that he is pleased and from experiencing this kind of submission, but I need to know that I am on his mind and my well being is at least being considered. Even in power play, I don't think a dom should be selfish to the degree where he will be willing to hurt you and make you feel unworthy just because he derives pleasure from your breakdown. Of course, that would be a big exaggeration of the intent behind asking you to lick cum off the floor, but it represents a good concern about one relationship with one's dom. Of course, I think communication is key. If you're new or relatively inexperienced as I am, you inevitably need a bit more reassurance to know that this is being done whilst fully taking into consideration your needs and your feelings. Perhaps this is why I don't make a very good sub, because I can't be selfless enough to the extent that I am willing to devalue myself and become a worthless nothing solely devoted to the whims and pleasure of another.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Jaded_One, I think we may be thinking along the same lines. To me, it seems to be an issue of trust - how do I know that this person really has my best interest in mind? How am I able to turn myself over completely if I'm not 120% sure that I'll be safe or comfortable. Whilst submission does entail having to venture out of one's comfort zone, I do think that safe, sane and consensual always has to apply, which means even when your dom is taking you out of your comfort zone, it is at a pace and at a degree that you are still relatively comfortable with having him control. I think your reaction to having to lick cum off to floor, similar to mine, is more of an emotional one - it seems cold and uncaring, treating you as if he couldn't care less about your well-being, whilst you are on the other hand, prioritizing his pleasure and happiness over your own. The question I always ask myself is to what extent is he making me do this just because he only wants to please himself? I may derive pleasure from knowing that he is pleased and from experiencing this kind of submission, but I need to know that I am on his mind and my well being is at least being considered. Even in power play, I don't think a dom should be selfish to the degree where he will be willing to hurt you and make you feel unworthy just because he derives pleasure from your breakdown. Of course, that would be a big exaggeration of the intent behind asking you to lick cum off the floor, but it represents a good concern about one relationship with one's dom. Of course, I think communication is key. If you're new or relatively inexperienced as I am, you inevitably need a bit more reassurance to know that this is being done whilst fully taking into consideration your needs and your feelings. Perhaps this is why I don't make a very good sub, because I can't be selfless enough to the extent that I am willing to devalue myself and become a worthless nothing solely devoted to the whims and pleasure of another.

Sometimes that bold bit's just really, really hot though.

 

[naughty4Daddy]

Sometimes that bold bit's just really, really hot though.

Smiles - I'm sure it can be - it isn't for me but hey, each to their own, right?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Smiles - I'm sure it can be - it isn't for me but hey, each to their own, right?

Deffo.

I couldn't handle it as a constant this-is-how-life-is type of thing, but as a bit of fun, yes. Yes indeed.

And sometimes, even, it's... settling. Like the times I just *need* a soul cleansing cry, sometimes I just need that time, to be reduced to the base instincts. It's like hitting a reset button in my brain. The stress and anxiety of life goes away, and it's just us.

 

[Jaded_One]

I think your reaction to having to lick cum off to floor, similar to mine, is more of an emotional one - it seems cold and uncaring, treating you as if he couldn't care less about your well-being, whilst you are on the other hand, prioritizing his pleasure and happiness over your own.

Sometimes that bold bit's just really, really hot though.

yes, yes and YES!!! Herein is my turmoil because I feel both these things at the same time. To what lengths will I go... feel... submit. When the need to please and receive approval is so strong, do I let it override my, for lack a better word, ewwww factor? lol

I'd also love to hear how others mentally negotiate moving the line that they've drawn from "oh hell no" to "well.. maybe" to "please sir, can I have some more?"

For example... the thought of being slapped in the face received an knee jerk reaction of "hell no". Now, however, I've worked myself around to preferring the slap over being denied spanking. It involved a good deal of internal dialogue amongst the voices.

Even now I have one voice saying.. well.. if you had just mopped the floor... maybe...

 

[Lilac_Sky]

Hell yes I would lick cum off the floor if Mistress commanded me too.

I became her slave because we had built up the relationship and trust that I know I can hand my well-being over to her and know she will take care of me. I would not have become her slave, her property, if I did not trust her judgement. And part of taking care of me (for us) is pushing me to those dark places that I want to go so badly, but am afraid of. She knows me. She understands me. We fit amazingly well together. If she tells me to lick the floor, I will obey her. (Now, licking the floor does not seem extreme to me in any way ... but there are many things that are much harder for me to do, but i do them, always)

 

[where]

I think that I wrestle with this a lot. I go away from here and then when I come back I'm more and more uncertain about what I want and where I'm going. I find the whole D/s thing increasingly difficult to reconcile but to get the stuff I feel I 'need', I have to be in that kind of relationship.

I'm finding it a total headfuck at the moment and not in a good way.

 

[subtle_Dom]

.

my two cents: isn't it true that every person sub/Dom is unique? I take huge enjoyment out of finding out what my sub's needs and desires are.. everyone has different limits.. I always want to find out as much as I can about a sub and only take her as far as her limits and needs take us after building trust....I think it is important for the Dom/Master to take responsibility.... if you don't like to lick cum off the floor, that is something I would like to know and thus take u in a different direction..the options are endless.

I take pleasure in controlling the pleasure of my sub.... i take no joy in something that I know she doesn't enjoy...we are all unique.. i don't believe in formulas...but that is just my opinion.

 

[Jaded_One]

@Subtle Dom... Aha! Now there's the rub. Many subs I've seen often have the same hard limits... no kids, no animals, no scat, etc. BUT for all those other limits in between... the ones you don't even know you have until you get that "hell no" voice in your head.

I really believe that most GOOD dominant men are the same way... where the dilemma arises is those grey areas that weren't discussed previously that a sub then has to decide yes or no.

And the internal debate between obeying one's Master... and obeying one's self.

and thanks for your input!

 

[Kajira Callista]

In my world it is all about the Daddies.
I don't know if my response is something they have *trained* me to do or is something that comes from the absolute trust that they are both my protectors and will never do or tell me to do something that would harm me.
I would be and have been more that happy to lick the floor clean because I was told to (carpet is the worst by far). I have even licked cum off the tip of a penis that had just been removed from my ass.
We do have a lot of conversations about the stuff we do and they will ask me if i would like doing certain things. If I don't really like the idea they know how to flip me lol.
"Would you like to..(well whatever they ask)"
My reply might be "ewww"
"Daddy wants you to (whatever they ask). Daddy knows his goodgirl wants to make him happy"
My reply always is "Yes Daddy"
or
One of the Daddies might ask a series of questions (are you daddy's goodgirl? you would always do what i ask...right? Does daddy's girl want to please him?) that leads up to something they want me to do.
Somehow I end up begging to do whatever it was I thought for a second I didn't really wanna do. I'm a sucker for them lol

I trust them and don't second guess if they are considering my safety and welfare because they already did that way before they even took a step in the direction of whatever it is we are about to embark on. If I ever felt uncomfortable I would tell them without hesitation. That by no means means they aren't going to do it anyway, but it does mean that at some point (before or after...their choice) we would discuss the issue and resolve it.
Feelings are feelings and really arent something to feel bad about. I think that understanding why you feel a certain way and overcoming those that are negative is an important part of the growth of a healthy kinky relationship.