is BDSM illeagal?

[intofdom]

I recently learned that a woman in the US filed a case against a man for unlawful imprisonment and assault.
What if a woman is a slave and cheats her master ? so are the masters in danger of charges being filed against them? Is BDSM legal?

 

[DVS]

I recently learned that a woman in the US filed a case against a man for unlawful imprisonment and assault.
What if a woman is a slave and cheats her master ? so are the masters in danger of charges being filed against them? Is BDSM legal?

in most cases, what two consenting people do in the privacy of their bedroom is seen as legal. But, there is always the chance that one of the two will claim it wasn't ever consensual. Some D/s couples actually sign contracts of what is expected of each party, but many times those are thrown out because of legalities.

When charges are filed, the local law in place is suppose to follow through. Then, in most cases, what is legal and what is illegal is in the eyes of the court. In some more conservative locations, the more outlandish the claims are, the worse it can go for the supposed offender. But in more liberal locations, the court can actually throw the case out, without even hearing it.

This is kind of a tongue-n-cheek answer to your question. In the past, the so called offender (in many cases it was the Dom or male) was always the loser. There are some parts of the U.S. and also some parts of the world where the laws are changing, so they are at least more fair to both parties. Times are changing and the more liberal the court is, the quicker they change.

So, sometimes it comes down to what the business world and Real Estate brokers consider the most important aspect for satisfaction...location, location, location. Well, it also helps that you don't piss your submissive off enough that she finds herself a lawyer who thinks it's profitable to pursue a case against you.

 

[GrimsPet]

Very touchy subject.
Some of the things done in a BDSM relationship might be considered illegal depending on your local laws. Depends on where you live!

If a person is filing charges, it tends to mean something was done without the consent of all parties involved in the scene. BDSM has the credo of "Safe, Sane, and Consensual." That last one - Consensual is what gets people into a world of hot water if they start thinking with the wrong body parts.

Back in early 2004 I met up with a guy who claimed to be a Dominant. We had met via Yahoo chat and we decided to go out and get to know each other. After several dates and blowjobs he decided he wanted to do a scene with me. We had talked about needles/piercing and my aversion to them and I had stated it was a HARD limit. We had a stated safeword as well.

He took me to his basement, blindfolded me, tied me up, almost suspended till I was on my tiptoes. Not much of a problem there because I like that sort of thing. Then I felt something cold on my nipples. OK so he's pulling sensation play. No biggie. Not thirty seconds later I was screaming bloody murder as he thrust corsage pins through my nipples. I called "RED!" that was our safeword. The response I got was, "Well we have to make the other one match."

He only ended the scene when I muttered something about passing out as my mind was going fuzzy and I felt myself turning cold and going into a sweat. Bastard! He was probably the hardest core SADIST I have ever met. There was nothing Dominant about this guy, he just wanted to inflict pain because he got his rocks off to it.

I could have filed assault charges because it was done without my consent. However that would have outed me to family and friends and coworkers and that was not something I wanted. Instead I chose something a hair more insidious. I contacted our local Kink club that he was so desperate to want to be a member of. I told them what happened and that this guy was NOT to be trusted. They never let him in.

 

[FurryFury]

Heh, not only is most BDSM not legal in my state, pretty much all sex except missionary with your lawfully wedded spouse, is illegal in my state.

Also, illegal, driving a horse and buggy on a main road. As is, backing onto a public street and so many other things.

Now will any of these laws be enforced? Unlikely but if that's the only way to get you and someone is after you for other reasons or a sub cries "wolf", yes it could become a legal process type of issue as well as a huge pain in the ass.

FF

 

[Sean]

I am an idiot - This is shy slave, not Him. I had not realised he was logged in on the computer.

Laws vary depending on which country you live in.

BDSM is not illegal in the UK, but certain images may be, and you cannot consent to be harmed.

In the UK, written agreements are not worth the paper they are written on.

There have been varying types of court cases over here, but they are very rare.

I guess trust is the most important element of any relationship.

Do you trust the other person not to cry abuse when the relationship hits a rocky patch?

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

I think as long as she is not chained to a pipe in your basement you are fairly safe.

 

[DVS]

I think as long as she is not chained to a pipe in your basement you are fairly safe.

Actually, I think you have that backwards. As long as she is chained to a pipe in your basement, you are safe. It's when she's loose that you have to worry. If you've satisfied her needs and treated her in the way she thinks she deserves, you might be OK. But if you didn't...

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a very VERY EXTREMELY grey area.

There's a case going on in the bible belt where BOTH partners are on trial-- him for putting her in a cage and her for letting him. This was an old guard leather Master which is about as safe as living in slavery can get. But the local yokels don't know that, and they don't care.

The DA will probably lose this case-- The ACLU is your friend, folks. But the pair were put in jail without bail until the ACLU got involved, their reputations are toast in the armpit state they live in, and her kids have been living with grandma the fundy Xtian for three years.
As things get tougher economically and politically, you will see more repression and reprisals. The spirit of nasty poking-in-your-business flourishes in such times. We are all becoming vulnerable again.

 

[HottieMama]

I recently learned that a woman in the US filed a case against a man for unlawful imprisonment and assault.
What if a woman is a slave and cheats her master ? so are the masters in danger of charges being filed against them? Is BDSM legal?

If you are talking about the case in OK, I am real-time friends with one of the parties involved, and there is A LOT that isn't hitting the media.

That said, I think a lot of the court cases we see are born of a disgruntled, vindictive partner seeking revenge...

 

[BiBunny]

There's a case going on in the bible belt where BOTH partners are on trial-- him for putting her in a cage and her for letting him. This was an old guard leather Master which is about as safe as living in slavery can get. But the local yokels don't know that, and they don't care.

Why haven't I heard tell of this?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Why haven't I heard tell of this?

I just heard about it last night, in reference to fundraising meetings in my local group. It happened something like three years ago, trial is dragging on...

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you are talking about the case in OK, I am real-time friends with one of the parties involved, and there is A LOT that isn't hitting the media.

That said, I think a lot of the court cases we see are born of a disgruntled, vindictive partner seeking revenge...

Indeed, and it's something everyone should be aware of. Try to play safe emotionally as well as physically, kids.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

I think in most of these cases there is much more involved then what is given to the public.

 

[christy1989]

I just heard about it last night, in reference to fundraising meetings in my local group. It happened something like three years ago, trial is dragging on...

We are not allowed to talk of such things in OK. But I guarantee that everything that goes on in the rest of the world goes on there too.

 

[HottieMama]

We are not allowed to talk of such things in OK. But I guarantee that everything that goes on in the rest of the world goes on there too.

Yes..let's sweep things under the rug and pretend they're not going on right in front of us. One of the primary reasons that several of the OKC groups have lost a LOT of members recently.

 

[christy1989]

Yes..let's sweep things under the rug and pretend they're not going on right in front of us. One of the primary reasons that several of the OKC groups have lost a LOT of members recently.

I agree with you that these instances should not be kept in the closet. Oklahoma is no different than anywhere else, I had heard of the case but there are many crazy things (lawsuits) that go on all over the place.

 

[Noira]

As someone said about the UK, same goes in the US; you may not consent to your own abuse.

And Canada too. Of course, just the D/s play isn't really abuse... someone who wanted to live as a service submissive to a Dominant who just wanted someone to do all the housework and be a good 50s wife and give him a lot of blowjobs would be completely in the clear, I'm sure. It's the S/m that raises the flags... it's the sadism and masochism that are the real problems. Sensual bondage, service, blowjobs, a bit of mindfucking, and generally non-abusive (y'know... not painful) kink is perfectly legal.

You just can't consent to your own abuse. And funny, you're not allowed to define your own abuse either. I don't think getting spanked is abusive at all, if I'm consenting to it and getting off on it! Unfortunately "but I was enjoying it" isn't enough evidence to throw out the trial if your doctor thinks it's domestic abuse and raises a case.

 

[marieR19]

I have honestly never understood all the laws that "protect" us from ourselves. Can't consent to "abuse" even if it's not abuse-as-defined-by-nonconsent and even if we like it, can't have sex for money even if everyone involved is tested and consenting... I've just never understood laws like that.

 

[intofdom]

Nowadays there are a lot of women accusing well placed men of sexual assault and rape. There are just TOO many of them that makes me believe most sex outside marriage is begining to become a big menace.
Soon, all a woman needs to show will be some stupid evidence that she was there and a few whipmarks.
All this will definetly have a de-faming effect ,thanks to the hungry media waiting to project this kind of cases no matter who is right.

 

[intofdom]

I have honestly never understood all the laws that "protect" us from ourselves. Can't consent to "abuse" even if it's not abuse-as-defined-by-nonconsent and even if we like it, can't have sex for money even if everyone involved is tested and consenting... I've just never understood laws like that.

The guys making the laws are really short sighted and fixed with old and outdated standards which require a man to have sex only with a woman who he is legally married to! Thats why prostitution and bdsm ofcourse is illeagal in most countries.

Sadly there is nothing we can do...

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Sadly there is nothing we can do...

Of course there is. If you're in a country where the citizens vote and/or have your usual "basic rights" (free speech, right to assemble, stuff like that), you can do something. You can write your legislators, you can write articles, you can try to persuade other people to accept your view and advocate it, or any number of activist activities. Granted, it may not be overly effective and you may not accomplish much...but to say that you can't actually DO anything is wrong. You're capable of trying a number of things.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Question: If you "cannot consent to your own abuse", then how are pro Dommes allowed to operate?

Not only are clients consenting, they're paying for it.

 

[Etoile]

There was a slave who went by Delia Day online. She was with her owner for 10 years, then shot and killed him. Although their website indicated all was consensual, she was found to have killed him in self defense or for her own safety, something like that. So what we see in public, and what we have from the courts, is very different. She has totally dropped off the kinky radar, to my knowledge.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Question: If you "cannot consent to your own abuse", then how are pro Dommes allowed to operate?

Not only are clients consenting, they're paying for it.

"it's different for men," of course...

 

[bhndblueyes88]

The legal definition of prostitution is any touch as a form of trade.

Technically; if you give me penny to shake your hand, it's prostitution.

I've had to explain this time and again in my days as a massage therapist.

So that confuses me a little. How do massage therapists, chiropracters, or medical professionals not fall under prostitution, then? What about movie stars who are paid to show up at parties and, well, shake hands? Or politicians who receive money for doing the same thing?

If the definition is that broad, there's gotta be some more defining language in laws some where! Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.