I am now a cybernetic organism

[squarejohn]

I just had a pacemaker/defibrillator installed in my chest. The defibrillator gave me a jolt yesterday and it felt like being struck by lightning. Any of youse guys have the same experience? I'm seriously thinking of having them take it out and take my chances as a simple organism.

 

[Loring2]

I just had a pacemaker/defibrillator installed in my chest. The defibrillator gave me a jolt yesterday and it felt like being struck by lightning. Any of youse guys have the same experience? I'm seriously thinking of having them take it out and take my chances as a simple organism.

John. I don't know how a defribrilator jolt feels because I don't have one of the devices implanted in me; but what are the chances that you would not have made the post that I'm replying to if the machine wasn't in your chest?

...Incidently we'll love you more as a complex organism than as one that doesn't exist.

So hang in there and one day you'll be as old and insufferable as I am, which is 80.

JELoring

 

[squarejohn]

John. I don't know how a defribrilator jolt feels because I don't have one of the devices implanted in me; but what are the chances that you would not have made the post that I'm replying to if the machine wasn't in your chest?

...Incidently we'll love you more as a complex organism than as one that doesn't exist.

So hang in there and one day you'll be as old and insufferable as I am, which is 80.

JELoring

Should I congratulate you on making it to 80, or offer my sympathies? The tone of your post suggests your are in good spirits and are content. I, too, am in good spirits and as active as my body allows. I have a couple of projects going on my property, and more to follow when those two are finished.

As for that defibrillator, I was wondering if I had any comrades-in-arms, so to speak, on this forum. They told me it would only jolt rarely, if ever. Well, I've had my first jolt and I don't like it--it's always in the back of my mind when the next jolt is coming.

Grab ahold of a sparkplug wire; it's about like, that except more intense. I don't know how long I'd live without one; nobody knows. I'm a couple of months away from being 70. The last couple of years have been nothing but surgery and pain and an unbelievable number of prescription pills. I'm not in a hurry to die, but, my last breath will be a sigh of relief.

 

[xssve]

shit, now you can use your tongue as a TENS unit.

 

[squarejohn]

shit, now you can use your tongue as a TENS unit.

What is a TENS unit?

 

[TE999]

What is a TENS unit?

Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation.

Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TENS_unit

It's a joke son.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What is a TENS unit?

Mmmm, TENS is fun!

But- damn, John, you do deserve better than that!

My mother has one, but it's never gone off, not once. On the other hand when they had her in the operating room for a triple bypass, her heart stopped when they touched it. They had to start it again-- and this happened twice. The stress broke a vertebra.

Here's hoping it never goes off again!

 

[theravenfox]

My mom has one, and she spent the first six months getting used to it. It does take some adjustment, both emotionally/mentally and literal calibration of the machine by a certified technician. Don't have it removed, it's better than the alternative.

 

[1sickbastard]

I'm waiting until the pda-smart phone-gps-wireless internet becomes available for implant before I go cyborg.
I've never been struck by lightening though...

 

[squarejohn]

Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation.

Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TENS_unit

It's a joke son.

Yeah, I know what that is, now that I've seen a picture of it. My wife's chiropractor had her get one for her back. I tried it on my arm, to see what it felt like; didn't like that, either, although it was mild by comparison to my gizmo.

 

[Stella_Omega]

ravenfox has a point; You might want to let the doctors know how much it hurt. it might not be calibrated correctly.

 

[stephen55]

As a retired backwoods country doctor, I started practice when pacemakers were about as complicated as door bells. Today, the things are so damned complicated that when someone comes into Emergency, who just happens to have a pacemaker, it's the pacemaker's fault, until proven otherwise.

Medical Speak translation..."I don't know squat about pacers, so get someone in here who does."

Funny thing...it's almost never the pacemaker...the things are remarkably good at doing exactly what they are programmed to do.

When an Intra-Cardiac Defibrillator (ICD) pacer goes off...it did so because something tripped it's internal algorithm to go off. Some disrythmia occurred which the pacer sensed and it fell into the category "Time to shock this heart".

Are ICD pacers fool proof? No.

Is going through an occasional unnecessary shock too much of a price to pay for actually surviving what may have otherwise been a fatal cardiac event? That's your call.

 

[amicus]

]I just had a pacemaker/defibrillator installed in my chest. The defibrillator gave me a jolt yesterday and it felt like being struck by lightning. Any of youse guys have the same experience? I'm seriously thinking of having them take it out and take my chances as a simple organism.[/[/I]QUOTE]

~~~~

Well...I am glad you are still among us. Chin up, Spring will arrive soon and you will be inspired...

regards...

amicus

 

[squarejohn]

As a retired backwoods country doctor, I started practice when pacemakers were about as complicated as door bells. Today, the things are so damned complicated that when someone comes into Emergency, who just happens to have a pacemaker, it's the pacemaker's fault, until proven otherwise.

Medical Speak translation..."I don't know squat about pacers, so get someone in here who does."

Funny thing...it's almost never the pacemaker...the things are remarkably good at doing exactly what they are programmed to do.

When an Intra-Cardiac Defibrillator (ICD) pacer goes off...it did so because something tripped it's internal algorithm to go off. Some disrythmia occurred which the pacer sensed and it fell into the category "Time to shock this heart".

Are ICD pacers fool proof? No.

Is going through an occasional unnecessary shock too much of a price to pay for actually surviving what may have otherwise been a fatal cardiac event? That's your call.

This began with the discovery that I had atrial fibrillation. My doctor told my that the danger with this is the possibility of getting a blood clot and the having it shift over to my heart and/or lungs. Blood thinner pills made it all okay, more or less.

Fast forward through a lot of hospital time and surgeries and two abscesses on my abdomen. Then in that same area, I thought I had another abscess and the ER doc it was a hernia. The routine EKG caused me to be admitted into the hospital, and I had all the symptoms of congestive heart failure. The atrial fib was still there, but there were also "pauses" on the graph that comes out of the machine. To me, a pause, means something that is moving, stops briefly, and resumes moving until the next pause. I had to draw it out of them about these pauses, and they reluctantly admitted that's what it was. It was these pauses that made them implant the ICD.

The ICD had been checked a few days after I was released from the hospital and they said it was working okay. Evidently, these ICDs have a memory that records every heartbeat. The graph that came out of the machine was about 12 feet long. They doubled the dose of one of my prescriptions and sent me on my way.

As for the shock I felt, I was an electrician for twenty years around industrial machinery, and had been shocked--knocked on my ass--any number of times. This was a hell of a lot worse than any of that. I'll give it a couple weeks before I decide whether to have the ICD removed.

There are a lot of things dealing with electrical magnetic fields, such as welding, using an electric drill, cell phones, metal detectors and wands at the airport and a lot more that I have to avoid or be wary of. This means that the great big building which is now being built to house all my machine tools will still be built, but I won't be able to use the machine tools for my hobbies. At my age, there's not much left besides reading and, God help me, watching TV.

Now that I think about it, I never had a sick day in my life until I stopped drinking. Shortly after that, the hospital became my home away from home. Do you think there is a connection?

 

[vrosej10]

The whole implant thing is weird and takes a while to get your head around. My lapband is not as intrusive as a pacemaker (though often very painful); I've had it for since 1997. You get used to something else being in your body. I have to be careful with tight waistbands or it pinches my abdominal wall, same with lying down or leaning over shit. As horrible as the feeling is, I am guessing that the pacemaker is preferable to death.

They've been talking about giving my mum one for years. She has major heart rhythm issues (which I've inherited in a much milder form) and keeps keeling over. She nearly died twice when I was about ten. I really think its time they bit the bullet and did it.

 

[squarejohn]

The whole implant thing is weird and takes a while to get your head around. My lapband is not as intrusive as a pacemaker (though often very painful); I've had it for since 1997. You get used to something else being in your body. I have to be careful with tight waistbands or it pinches my abdominal wall, same with lying down or leaning over shit. As horrible as the feeling is, I am guessing that the pacemaker is preferable to death.

They've been talking about giving my mum one for years. She has major heart rhythm issues (which I've inherited in a much milder form) and keeps keeling over. She nearly died twice when I was about ten. I really think its time they bit the bullet and did it.

I guess you know that heart rhythm can be controlled in most cases with drugs. But if you keep keeling over, like your mother, well....

 

[vrosej10]

I guess you know that heart rhythm can be controlled in most cases with drugs. But if you keep keeling over, like your mother, well....

Yeh, mum's kind of right on the outside edge of what drugs can manage. Periodically she slips over. I wish they'd bite the bullet and do it. It would be less worrying. My heart rhythm issue directly link to physical stress, usually my blood pressure (which can be pissy and difficult to medicate). I always know when its high cause the rhythm goes whackadoo. Last time it was bad I wound up in hospital.

 

[mynameisben]

You should ask your doctor if you can get upgraded to Apple's new iPacemaker. When it's not defibrillating, it cranks out old disco tunes like Heart of Glass and Total Eclipse of the Heart.

 

[stephen55]

This began with the discovery that I had atrial fibrillation. My doctor told my that the danger with this is the possibility of getting a blood clot and the having it shift over to my heart and/or lungs. Blood thinner pills made it all okay, more or less.

Fast forward through a lot of hospital time and surgeries and two abscesses on my abdomen. Then in that same area, I thought I had another abscess and the ER doc it was a hernia. The routine EKG caused me to be admitted into the hospital, and I had all the symptoms of congestive heart failure. The atrial fib was still there, but there were also "pauses" on the graph that comes out of the machine. To me, a pause, means something that is moving, stops briefly, and resumes moving until the next pause. I had to draw it out of them about these pauses, and they reluctantly admitted that's what it was. It was these pauses that made them implant the ICD.

The ICD had been checked a few days after I was released from the hospital and they said it was working okay. Evidently, these ICDs have a memory that records every heartbeat. The graph that came out of the machine was about 12 feet long. They doubled the dose of one of my prescriptions and sent me on my way.

As for the shock I felt, I was an electrician for twenty years around industrial machinery, and had been shocked--knocked on my ass--any number of times. This was a hell of a lot worse than any of that. I'll give it a couple weeks before I decide whether to have the ICD removed.

There are a lot of things dealing with electrical magnetic fields, such as welding, using an electric drill, cell phones, metal detectors and wands at the airport and a lot more that I have to avoid or be wary of. This means that the great big building which is now being built to house all my machine tools will still be built, but I won't be able to use the machine tools for my hobbies. At my age, there's not much left besides reading and, God help me, watching TV.

Now that I think about it, I never had a sick day in my life until I stopped drinking. Shortly after that, the hospital became my home away from home. Do you think there is a connection?

squarejohn, the connection may, or may not be, that drinking caused some health issues that may, or may not, have lead to atrial fibrillation.

Being smart enough to have made it through med school, I'm smart enough not to make a call on a question that isn't mine to make. (It's your own attending physician's call to make.) That said, I've yet to meet someone who has suffered health problems due to a lack of alcohol, (getting through the DT's notwithstanding).

An ICD pacer is simply a pacer that can also give your heart an stiff electrical jolt (defibrillation), if the pacer detects ventricular fibrillation (V-fib). V-fib is 100% fatal if not corrected in one gosh almighty hurry. (Ventricular fibrillation is not to be confused with atrial fibrillation (A-fib).) I can count on two hands the number of times I was able to successfully bring back someone who had been in V-fib for any length of time. As for the number that had anything resembling a brain afterwards...one hand...

Pauses...pauses...

A heart stops beating for...one second...two seconds...five...ten...

The question is...does it start up again? And how long do you wait before you get concerned? How long does the pacer wait before it's internal program says do something?

Pacers are programed to wait only so long before sending a small voltage (a response) to stimulate a cardiac contraction. (This small voltage to stimulate a cardiac contraction is very different from the voltage that the Intra Cardiac Defibrillator (ICD) uses to shock a heart out of V-fib.)

It's complicated. That's why we have cardiologists, cardiac nurses and techs who look after pacemakers, read the stored data from the pacer and made the little tweaks that keep the things doing what they are supposed to do.

One last comment...I'd wait longer than two weeks before deciding whether or not to have the thing removed. In fact...if the occasional serious shock is all that's bothering you (the kind of shock that means you get to keep on living), all that's required is to turn off the defibrillator part of the ICD. It can be done...but be prepared to sign something before anyone actually turns it off.

 

[squarejohn]

You should ask your doctor if you can get upgraded to Apple's new iPacemaker. When it's not defibrillating, it cranks out old disco tunes like Heart of Glass and Total Eclipse of the Heart.

Yeah, I have that and it also lets me download ringtones.

 

[squarejohn]

squarejohn, the connection may, or may not be, that drinking caused some health issues that may, or may not, have lead to atrial fibrillation.

Being smart enough to have made it through med school, I'm smart enough not to make a call on a question that isn't mine to make. (It's your own attending physician's call to make.) That said, I've yet to meet someone who has suffered health problems due to a lack of alcohol, (getting through the DT's notwithstanding).

An ICD pacer is simply a pacer that can also give your heart an stiff electrical jolt (defibrillation), if the pacer detects ventricular fibrillation (V-fib). V-fib is 100% fatal if not corrected in one gosh almighty hurry. (Ventricular fibrillation is not to be confused with atrial fibrillation (A-fib).) I can count on two hands the number of times I was able to successfully bring back someone who had been in V-fib for any length of time. As for the number that had anything resembling a brain afterwards...one hand...

Pauses...pauses...

A heart stops beating for...one second...two seconds...five...ten...

The question is...does it start up again? And how long do you wait before you get concerned? How long does the pacer wait before it's internal program says do something?

Pacers are programed to wait only so long before sending a small voltage (a response) to stimulate a cardiac contraction. (This small voltage to stimulate a cardiac contraction is very different from the voltage that the Intra Cardiac Defibrillator (ICD) uses to shock a heart out of V-fib.)

It's complicated. That's why we have cardiologists, cardiac nurses and techs who look after pacemakers, read the stored data from the pacer and made the little tweaks that keep the things doing what they are supposed to do.

One last comment...I'd wait longer than two weeks before deciding whether or not to have the thing removed. In fact...if the occasional serious shock is all that's bothering you (the kind of shock that means you get to keep on living), all that's required is to turn off the defibrillator part of the ICD. It can be done...but be prepared to sign something before anyone actually turns it off.

I think I will take your advice to wait longer than two weeks. Not for me, but because it would cause serious trouble for some people who depend on me. In any event, my will is up to date, and all my other affairs are in order. Thanks for your concern.

 

[stephen55]

I think I will take your advice to wait longer than two weeks. Not for me, but because it would cause serious trouble for some people who depend on me. In any event, my will is up to date, and all my other affairs are in order. Thanks for your concern.

You're welcome.

That will be five cents, please and thank you.

 

[squarejohn]

You're welcome.

That will be five cents, please and thank you.

That recalls a a line from an old movie made in WWII. The circumstances in that scene were: a dangerous situation in which soldier A plucked soldier B out of certain death at the last possible moment.

Soldier B: Jeez, buddy, you saved my life!

Soldier A: Ahh, ya owe me a nickel.

That was 65 years or more ago when was was about kindergarden age. I don't remember anything else about that movie except what I described above. For some reason it it stuck with me and it seems apropos right now.

 

[stephen55]

That recalls a a line from an old movie made in WWII. The circumstances in that scene were: a dangerous situation in which soldier A plucked soldier B out of certain death at the last possible moment.

Soldier B: Jeez, buddy, you saved my life!

Soldier A: Ahh, ya owe me a nickel.

That was 65 years or more ago when was was about kindergarden age. I don't remember anything else about that movie except what I described above. For some reason it it stuck with me and it seems apropos right now.

I was thinking of Lucy and her psychiatric advice booth.

http://technoccult.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/PeanutsLucy.jpg

 

[squarejohn]

That was funny. I did, actually, LOL.