Has everyone already forgotten Question Mark?

[Recidiva]

The problem is, with any awareness campaign, how sympathetic is your pool of unassailable victims? Brady's a near vegetable, ?'s victims are forgotten, hell, most people can't name the shot judge...

But breast cancer is your mom, sister, wife, gf, bff...

Similarly with AIDS, kid's cancer research...,

Schizos aren't sympathetic and their victims soon forgotten, but as we see (and please note that you can't find opening salvos of commentary blaming the rhetoric of the left, only THEY behaved stupidly) they are useful political tools for the politics of emotion over reason.

People care about other people. It happens. Deal with it.

My son is autistic. I'm sympathetic. I have family that is deeply schizophrenic. I am sympathetic. If you're not, that's your problem. I'll just address the people who aren't entirely burned out on the subject of compassion.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

What does sympathy have to do with the topic?

Personalizing the discussion to bring emotion in to triumph over reason?



Emotion over reason is why so many really troubled people are left to their own devices...

HOW MANY TIMES were the cops called to deal with this kid and, like immigration, we just kept doing a catch and release until he did something really horrible and we finally had reasonable cause to forcibly treat him?

 

[Recidiva]

What does sympathy have to do with the topic?

Personalizing the discussion to bring emotion in to triumph over reason?



Emotion over reason is why so many really troubled people are left to their own devices...

HOW MANY TIMES were the cops called to deal with this kid and, like immigration, we just kept doing a catch and release until he did something really horrible and we finally had reasonable cause to forcibly treat him?

Because you brought it up by saying that people are unsympathetic.

People that are educated on the realities of schizophrenia become more sympathetic.

Emotion over reason is why more reason is required in the form of education.

Disease is still considered by some to be a curse from God. The further we get from "inexplicable curse" toward "medical condition that should be addressed by these actions" the better.

Until someone is a demonstrable danger, we can't do anything. How many times do people even here on this site threaten other people's lives? Until it's real, it's words and authorities are legally compelled from acting.

You can't have it both ways. You can't hate the "evil" organizations of government, school and the medical profession, and want to destroy them entirely, BUT blame them for not doing something.

What everyone is, is human and fallible. We don't have a perfect system. I'd like to work on improving it with the least amount of blame and the most amount of perspective.

You just want to blame anyone and everyone, especially if they're from "The Left" and then sit back and think that being critical actually accomplished something. It doesn't accomplish anything except more apathy and despair.

 

[zipman]

I'm talking about the state and the limitations on it.

No you weren't. You said "everything" was black and white. In a later post, you described how your "world" was very colorful.

Your problem is that you react to everything by trying to tie it to anti-liberalism and then you fit your viewpoints to that position. For someone who mocks nuance, it is the primary tool in your discourse as your positions never have the same consistency that they would if they were based on principles.

Hatred has blinded you.

 

[Saint Peter]

It doesn't accomplish anything except more apathy and despair.

Then it accomplishes its main objective.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

People are unsympathetic.

Each and every day they are bombarded by bad news, need, and violence.



They make like ducks and let the "water" roll off their backs, hence nothing will be done about the cause of mental illness because you can't get the NFL to wear pink shoes to promote its awareness...

 

[Recidiva]

Then it accomplishes its main objective.

Seems that way. Fortunately I'm immune.

 

[Recidiva]

People are unsympathetic.

Each and every day they are bombarded by bad news, need, and violence.



They make like ducks and let the "water" roll off their backs, hence nothing will be done about the cause of mental illness because you can't get the NFL to wear pink shoes to promote its awareness...

No, SOME people are unsympathetic. SOME people are sympathetic.

You're really only talking about yourself.

I know there are sympathetic people in the world 'cause I am one and I've met others.

You've shut all sympathy out of existence so you don't have to feel burdened by it.

 

[Saint Peter]

Seems that way. Fortunately I'm immune.

Well, you walk on water and all of that.

I dream of firmly grabbing his neck and popping his head like a big pimple.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

zip, if I don't have your goat, then why are you being troll stupid?

My view has always been black and white and will remain so.

The State should never take the life of a citizen. It should have no hesitation in taking the lives of clear and present dangers to the state and hence its citizens.

Justifiable homicide falls under this not one wit. It has nothing to do with anything other than Objective Law, which I am also a HUGE fan of...

Stop being obtuse on purpose. You're no where near as good as Throb at it.

 

[Recidiva]

Well, you walk on water and all of that.

I dream of firmly grabbing his neck and popping his head like a big pimple.

I can't really walk on water unless the tile floor is wet.

I think he's trapped in despair and that's sad. That's a crappy place to live. I can't do a damned thing to him worse than what he's done to himself.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

No, SOME people are unsympathetic. SOME people are sympathetic.

You're really only talking about yourself.

I know there are sympathetic people in the world 'cause I am one and I've met others.

You've shut all sympathy out of existence so you don't have to feel burdened by it.

No, you're the one who always finally resorts to "me and what my circumstance is" as some sort of mark of moral superiority.

If I were talking about ONLY me, then a clear rush would have been made over this issue when ? went crazy, but we got in a hub-bub about it for a week or two, and then like the Haiti of a year ago, quickly forgot all about it and the victims because the media had us focused on the next sensational story of the day. The proof of what I say, in general, is in the lack of action on the issue. Next week, this too, will be a dead story and we will be not one wit nearer to the issue of mental health because we'll be hating on Boehner, who will be "in the crosshairs..."

 

[Saint Peter]

I can't really walk on water unless the tile floor is wet.

I think he's trapped in despair and that's sad. That's a crappy place to live. I can't do a damned thing to him worse than what he's done to himself.

Don't worry about me.

I will have safety glasses, rubber gloves, Saranex™ coveralls, and something covering my face when I do the deed.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Well, you walk on water and all of that.

I dream of firmly grabbing his neck and popping his head like a big pimple.

Technically, puddles are water too...

 

[Saint Peter]

Technically, puddles are water too...

Technically, you do not walk on anything other than electrons.

 

[Recidiva]

No, you're the one who always finally resorts to "me and what my circumstance is" as some sort of mark of moral superiority.

If I were talking about ONLY me, then a clear rush would have been made over this issue when ? went crazy, but we got in a hub-bub about it for a week or two, and then like the Haiti of a year ago, quickly forgot all about it and the victims because the media had us focused on the next sensational story of the day. The proof of what I say, in general, is in the lack of action on the issue. Next week, this too, will be a dead story and we will be not one wit nearer to the issue of mental health because we'll be hating on Boehner, who will be "in the crosshairs..."

Actually it's an attempt to talk you out of your deep, deep hole you dug for yourself where you keep complaining about how dark it is and how people are always throwing dirt on your head. It's sympathy, not superiority. I've got rope, I throw down a rope, you call the rope a lie and so it goes.

If I wanted to maintain superiority, I'd want you to stay there. I don't. I'd prefer that you weren't suffering from self-inflicted wounds.

I have no idea what your second paragraph means except for more "The world is a horrible place, so I will be horrible too."

I'm not a proponent of "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." I firmly believe if you can't beat 'em, keep trying.

 

[Recidiva]

Don't worry about me.

I will have safety glasses, rubber gloves, Saranex™ coveralls, and something covering my face when I do the deed.

Safety first.

 

[zipman]

zip, if I don't have your goat, then why are you being troll stupid?

My view has always been black and white and will remain so.

The State should never take the life of a citizen. It should have no hesitation in taking the lives of clear and present dangers to the state and hence its citizens.

Justifiable homicide falls under this not one wit. It has nothing to do with anything other than Objective Law, which I am also a HUGE fan of...

Stop being obtuse on purpose. You're no where near as good as Throb at it.

You say your views are black and white and then you twist them using pretzel logic and nuance to prove the opposite.

What you post just doesn't make logical sense. You make up terms and twist the meanings as you go along, all to substantiate your hatred.

I'm not your enemy, the person looking back at you in the mirror is.

 

[RobDownSouth]

You say your views are black and white and then you twist them using pretzel logic and nuance to prove the opposite.

What you post just doesn't make logical sense. You make up terms and twist the meanings as you go along, all to substantiate your hatred.

I'm not your enemy, the person looking back at you in the mirror is.

Ever notice the similarities between AJ's incoherent rambling illogic and that video by the Tucson shooter?

Me, too.

 

[Recidiva]

Ever notice the similarities between AJ's incoherent rambling illogic and that video by the Tucson shooter?

Me, too.

This is why I really don't believe in a "talk cure" for sooo many things.

If there's no trust, there's no way to reach someone.

And there are too many syndromes that have as their core...an inability to trust.

 

[Wok]

This is why I really don't believe in a "talk cure" for sooo many things.

If there's no trust, there's no way to reach someone.

And there are too many syndromes that have as their core...an inability to trust.

I am not an expert, Reci, but is that kind of cannot reach somebody, distrustful kind of core lead to that level of paranoid delusional personality that twists ideology regardless of the source?

 

[Recidiva]

I am not an expert, Reci, but is that kind of cannot reach somebody, distrustful kind of core lead to that level of paranoid delusional personality that twists ideology regardless of the source?

It's not just schizophrenia. I experienced a lot of it with my migraines and the PTSD that they caused. I was entirely incapable of believing that anybody in the medical community could help me, and that all medications were evil. I trusted doctors on other issues that were simpler, like a broken bone, but not for something like migraines.

On my own I was completely incapable of reaching out for help. Ulaven got me to trust him, and he made the doctor's appointments and held my (clenched) hand through all of the appointments and trials. I was right in the sense that there was a lot of misinformation, blame and very little helpful treatment. But he was right in that if I didn't try, I wouldn't ever get any help.

I changed doctors about ten times. But Ulaven gave me the faith to continue. It took me many years and several mistrustful relapses and a lot of hysteria before I was able to locate doctors that would listen to me, believe me, and help me. I'm still struggling with it, but I've made lots of progress.

I deal with the fact that people think I'm drug seeking plus the knowledge that most medical treatment has severe side effects. I thought my choices were - pain, or pain plus persecution. But there are other options. I couldn't have done it alone.

So someone with trust issues is going to be severely hampered at the outset, and it's not guaranteed at all that they'll get any help. But from my experiences, it's best to keep trying. But I needed to borrow someone else's sanity to do that.

From my experience, I couldn't even get NEAR the idea of doctors without my brain throwing every last accumulated bit of pain from the migraines and the process and the blame at me any time I went near the subject.

And migraines are complicated, but once the pain is handled, the PTSD can fade and I can go to the doctor's office on my own, with some faith that if I persist, it might work out to my benefit as it has before, despite the pain and the blame.

In schizophrenics, it's going to be compounded to the Nth degree. Migraines don't have mistrust as an inherent symptom, only as a side effect in the form of PTSD. I could get relief. Schizophrenia carries a huge burden of inability to trust at its core, plus an inability to really follow instructions or follow a line of reasoning without compulsively needing to rearrange it in the mind.

So the answer is yes, regardless of the source unless the source manages to engender trust. And in a schizophrenic that chance is deeply diminished according to the severity of the disease, and the way the schizophrenic has been treated in the past.

The mind doesn't just HAVE a blind spot toward trust. The mind IS a blind spot toward trust in schizophrenia.

 

[Wok]

It's not just schizophrenia. I experienced a lot of it with my migraines and the PTSD that they caused. I was entirely incapable of believing that anybody in the medical community could help me, and that all medications were evil. I trusted doctors on other issues that were simpler, like a broken bone, but not for something like migraines.

On my own I was completely incapable of reaching out for help. Ulaven got me to trust him, and he made the doctor's appointments and held my (clenched) hand through all of the appointments and trials. I was right in the sense that there was a lot of misinformation, blame and very little helpful treatment. But he was right in that if I didn't try, I wouldn't ever get any help.

I changed doctors about ten times. But Ulaven gave me the faith to continue. It took me many years and several mistrustful relapses and a lot of hysteria before I was able to locate doctors that would listen to me, believe me, and help me. I'm still struggling with it, but I've made lots of progress.

I deal with the fact that people think I'm drug seeking plus the knowledge that most medical treatment has severe side effects. I thought my choices were - pain, or pain plus persecution. But there are other options. I couldn't have done it alone.

So someone with trust issues is going to be severely hampered at the outset, and it's not guaranteed at all that they'll get any help. But from my experiences, it's best to keep trying. But I needed to borrow someone else's sanity to do that.

From my experience, I couldn't even get NEAR the idea of doctors without my brain throwing every last accumulated bit of pain from the migraines and the process and the blame at me any time I went near the subject.

And migraines are complicated, but once the pain is handled, the PTSD can fade and I can go to the doctor's office on my own, with some faith that if I persist, it might work out to my benefit as it has before, despite the pain and the blame.

In schizophrenics, it's going to be compounded to the Nth degree. Migraines don't have mistrust as an inherent symptom, only as a side effect in the form of PTSD. I could get relief. Schizophrenia carries a huge burden of inability to trust at its core, plus an inability to really follow instructions or follow a line of reasoning without compulsively needing to rearrange it in the mind.

So the answer is yes, regardless of the source unless the source manages to engender trust. And in a schizophrenic that chance is deeply diminished according to the severity of the disease, and the way the schizophrenic has been treated in the past.

The mind doesn't just HAVE a blind spot toward trust. The mind IS a blind spot toward trust in schizophrenia.

I will have to take a few moments and digest this post. Again, I am not an expert.

 

[Recidiva]

I will have to take a few moments and digest this post. Again, I am not an expert.

Okay. It's like saying "can't we teach autistic kids social skills?" in the same way of saying "can't we just teach schizophrenics how to trust?"

If that helps.

 

[mercury14]

I'm pretty sure that is guy probably had all sorts of access to mental health care.

What he was short on was people not afraid to demand he seek it because of our culture of "tolerance and diversity." Who wants the kind of grief and personal attacks that go with making judgements about the affairs of other people? we've ceded that responsibility to the government.

It's not absurd. As soon as YOU set your spending priorities, you are in direct conflict with other people who have THEIR spending priorities. That's what happens when government becomes the answer for everything. The problem is that when you ask it to do everything it really can't succeed in doing anything...

__________________
When your philosophy of government is based on groups, you must remember that your group can be a favored, or disfavored group, with equal ease and that neither status is ever permanent any more than the favors government solemnly promised to purchase your group loyalty.
A_J, the Stupid

What's this "demanding" stuff? The shooter was kicked out of community college and told by the school to get a mental health assessment. And his family tried to get him help for years.

After that, if a patient is not trying to kill himself or others, there's nothing that can be done to keep him in the hospital. Just... what are you suggesting should be done? Are you suggesting that people should be locked up because someone thinks they *might* become a threat at some point?

Also, who do you think should pay for these lock-up services? Like you said, we're broke.