Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
Violent rhetoric-- does it lead to violence (assaults, murders). Is it to be avoided.?
We are talking of violent metaphor, similies and images; linking various events to murders and deaths, and various conflicts to bloody battles and wars. Further, metaphors sometimes link human opponents to disgusting animals (rats), which raises implications as to extermination (metaphorical or actual).
That's a large order, curbing violent talk. To what end?
Consider religious texts and depictions: Xians are exhorted to
"Put on the armor of God and ...[take] the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit" [Eph 6:11-17]
Buddhist and Hindu art frequently show violent acts. The gods' or goddesses' feet tread people underneath. Skulls are featured.
wrathful deities
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...y&start=36&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&ndsp=18&tbs=isch:1
The American Battle Hymn of the Republic says,
"he [Lord] hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword, His Truth is marching on."
The Marsellaise speaks of fighting tyranny "until the blood overflows our furrows." (abreuve nos sillons).
Charles Sumner, the abollitionist senator, in 1856 delivered a speech "the crime of Kansas" with sharp invective, and suggested that Kansans were being oppressed by pro slavery persons who wanted to disarm them, and deprive them of Second Amendment rights.
Indeed, advocates of non violence have often used violent imagery, e.g., Jesus said, "if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out".
His The parable [of the tares] is as follows: [material from wikipedia, also in KJV Bible, Matthew 13:24]
He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while people slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel weeds[tares, weeds] also among the wheat, and went away. But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then the darnel weeds appeared also. The servants of the householder came and said to him, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where did this darnel come from?'
"He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.'
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and gather them up?'
"But he said, 'No, lest perhaps while you gather up the darnel weeds, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers, "First, gather up the darnel weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"– Matthew 13:24-30, World English Bible
The words translated "darnel weeds" ("tares" in the King James Version) is ζιζάνια (zizania), plural of ζιζάνιον (zizanion). This word is thought to mean darnel (Lolium temulentum),[2][3] a ryegrass which looks much like wheat in its early stages of growth.[4] Roman law prohibited sowing darnel among the wheat of an enemy,[4][5] suggesting that the scenario presented here is realistic.[6]
[edit] InterpretationAn eschatological interpretation[6] is provided by Jesus in verses Matthew 13:36-43 of the chapter:
Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel weeds of the field."
[...]B] The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.[/B] There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
====
Needless to say, atheists such as Sade and Nietzsche have had recourse to violent imagery and metaphor
from Nietzsche's Zarathustra, (trans. W. Kaufmann), p1 s17 ON THE WAY OF THE CREATOR
Today you are still suffering from the many, being one: today your courage and your hopes are still whole. But the time will come when solitude will make you weary, when your pride will double up and your courage gnash its teeth. And you will cry, "I am alone!" The time will come when that which seems high to you will no longer be in sight, and that which seems low will be all-too-near; even what seems sublime to you will frighten you like a ghost. And you will cry, "All is false!"
There are feelings which want to kill the lonely; and if they do not succeed, well, then they themselves must die. But are you capable of this - to be a murderer? ===
Nietzsche also spoke of the Overman or Superman as shaping his own values, and rising above those of the herd.
Murderer Nathan Leopold wrote to his lover, Loeb,
"A superman ... is, on account of certain superior qualities inherent in him, exempted from the ordinary laws which govern men. He is not liable for anything he may do."[3] [from wiki]
===
Final Point: Given the violence of imagery in hundreds of sources, is there any way argue that the actions of a particular crazy person are because he been exposed to one of the above "sources." Leopold spoke of Nietzsche. [Added: Was N responsible? No.]
Supposing Loughner spoke of Sarah Palin's advice "Don't retreat, reload." Is she then responsible? [Added: No.]
[Added: The larger point, for all who write porn and erotica depicting illegal or immoral acts, is whether such writers are responsible for the one person in a thousand who decides to act out the depiction, with possible nasty consequences, such as rape, molestation,etc. Again, I'd say the answer is 'no', as was the case with Goethe's, Sorrows of Young Werther, and the young persons' suicides that followed.]
We are talking of violent metaphor, similies and images; linking various events to murders and deaths, and various conflicts to bloody battles and wars. Further, metaphors sometimes link human opponents to disgusting animals (rats), which raises implications as to extermination (metaphorical or actual).
That's a large order, curbing violent talk. To what end?
Consider religious texts and depictions: Xians are exhorted to
"Put on the armor of God and ...[take] the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit" [Eph 6:11-17]
Buddhist and Hindu art frequently show violent acts. The gods' or goddesses' feet tread people underneath. Skulls are featured.
wrathful deities
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...y&start=36&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&ndsp=18&tbs=isch:1
The American Battle Hymn of the Republic says,
"he [Lord] hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword, His Truth is marching on."
The Marsellaise speaks of fighting tyranny "until the blood overflows our furrows." (abreuve nos sillons).
Charles Sumner, the abollitionist senator, in 1856 delivered a speech "the crime of Kansas" with sharp invective, and suggested that Kansans were being oppressed by pro slavery persons who wanted to disarm them, and deprive them of Second Amendment rights.
Indeed, advocates of non violence have often used violent imagery, e.g., Jesus said, "if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out".
His The parable [of the tares] is as follows: [material from wikipedia, also in KJV Bible, Matthew 13:24]
He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while people slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel weeds[tares, weeds] also among the wheat, and went away. But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then the darnel weeds appeared also. The servants of the householder came and said to him, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where did this darnel come from?'
"He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.'
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and gather them up?'
"But he said, 'No, lest perhaps while you gather up the darnel weeds, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers, "First, gather up the darnel weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"– Matthew 13:24-30, World English Bible
The words translated "darnel weeds" ("tares" in the King James Version) is ζιζάνια (zizania), plural of ζιζάνιον (zizanion). This word is thought to mean darnel (Lolium temulentum),[2][3] a ryegrass which looks much like wheat in its early stages of growth.[4] Roman law prohibited sowing darnel among the wheat of an enemy,[4][5] suggesting that the scenario presented here is realistic.[6]
[edit] InterpretationAn eschatological interpretation[6] is provided by Jesus in verses Matthew 13:36-43 of the chapter:
Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the darnel weeds of the field."
[...]B] The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.[/B] There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
====
Needless to say, atheists such as Sade and Nietzsche have had recourse to violent imagery and metaphor
from Nietzsche's Zarathustra, (trans. W. Kaufmann), p1 s17 ON THE WAY OF THE CREATOR
Today you are still suffering from the many, being one: today your courage and your hopes are still whole. But the time will come when solitude will make you weary, when your pride will double up and your courage gnash its teeth. And you will cry, "I am alone!" The time will come when that which seems high to you will no longer be in sight, and that which seems low will be all-too-near; even what seems sublime to you will frighten you like a ghost. And you will cry, "All is false!"
There are feelings which want to kill the lonely; and if they do not succeed, well, then they themselves must die. But are you capable of this - to be a murderer? ===
Nietzsche also spoke of the Overman or Superman as shaping his own values, and rising above those of the herd.
Murderer Nathan Leopold wrote to his lover, Loeb,
"A superman ... is, on account of certain superior qualities inherent in him, exempted from the ordinary laws which govern men. He is not liable for anything he may do."[3] [from wiki]
===
Final Point: Given the violence of imagery in hundreds of sources, is there any way argue that the actions of a particular crazy person are because he been exposed to one of the above "sources." Leopold spoke of Nietzsche. [Added: Was N responsible? No.]
Supposing Loughner spoke of Sarah Palin's advice "Don't retreat, reload." Is she then responsible? [Added: No.]
[Added: The larger point, for all who write porn and erotica depicting illegal or immoral acts, is whether such writers are responsible for the one person in a thousand who decides to act out the depiction, with possible nasty consequences, such as rape, molestation,etc. Again, I'd say the answer is 'no', as was the case with Goethe's, Sorrows of Young Werther, and the young persons' suicides that followed.]
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