TSA pat downs and body scans

[3113]

Plot Bunny!

Just to add--on the erotica side of things, I have to wonder if there are any folk opting for the pat down because they want to be felt up.

 

[Ovidius]

Just to add--on the erotica side of things, I have to wonder if there are any folk opting for the pat down because they want to be felt up.

"Thank you very much for the offer, officer, but I would much rather be searched by that pretty blonde officer."

 

[Stella_Omega]

I wear a pair of rings through my labia.

I'm kind of looking forward to showing them off.

Do you think they'd allow me on a plane with them in? Because small smooth steel hoops could be dangerous, you know!

 

[3113]

Apparently the TSA agents aren't having any fun with this either!

many TSA agents hate the new rules and find it to be sapping morale to have to grope passengers. Some of it appears to be the verbal abuse they're getting from travelers, but some of it is just the fact that they have to keep touching people they'd rather not touch in that way

What have we come to when no one enjoys pat downs anymore?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Since 9/11 all the terrorist attempts have originated outside the U.S. And all the terrorists who have attempted to do something on board a plane have been mugged and tied up, not by Sky Marshals or TSA, but by the other passengers, mostly Americans. 9/11 was a fluke. They pulled it off because it was novel. Up until then hijackings had all been done to take the plane somewhere the perp wanted to go. No one expected that these jihadi fools would deliberately crash an airliner into a building. Now we know. Now we defend ourselves. Now we counterattack.

But there have been many,many tests of the procedures and checkpoints at major airports around the country...how many where successful? 100% The TSA never stopped a single attempt, never even knew it had taken place until it was on the nightly news. So tell me how groping a passenger will decrease that lack of success?

Absolutely.

(I'm agreeing with ZEB!)

Oh my God...the world is coming to an end...*runs around in circles screaming*

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Whoa! Zeb seems to be claiming that there have been folks getting on planes with explosive or fake explosives on their bodies after going through a TSA check since the TSA checks started. Is this true? I haven't heard of any. And, if not, that's not a valid point.

And Katyusha has already posted the valid response to this. The very first time a terrorist gets lucky and blows a plane up after going through any kind of security check, the yammers are going to be out in force about lax security.

This is a no win situation, so my feeling (having been on the firing line in the Middle East for quite a few years) is to not play to the lowest-common-denominator fear factor on this. Be free and act free and live with the occasional isolated mishap.

I'd put more of the effort into screening passengers at ticketing and making sure it's the ticketed passenger who arrives at the gate, yes, using intelligently applied profiling. We have "watch" and "no fly" lists and don't put the effort into applying them, for instance.

Overall, I'd rather live freer, take my chances, and spend my terrorist tracking money at snuffing them out a long distance from my home shores.

And, actually, with the represented crazy reactionaries I see posts from on this forum, I'm more concerned about domestic crazies than foreign terrorists.

You don't watch much TV do you? Especially news programs...to busy listing to all the yammering on MSNBC huh?

 

[sr71plt]

You don't watch much TV do you? Especially news programs...to busy listing to all the yammering on MSNBC huh?

No, I don't watch a whole lot of TV. Where I was most of my life--out in the foreign environment mostly protecting the homeland from there, they didn't have a whole lot of TV to watch.

And, sorry, I've never switched to MSNBC in my life.

Guess again. I'd sure like to live up to your assumptions, yes I would.

So, were you thinking of documenting your assertion or just zipping on through that?

 

[Loring2]

Yes

Whoa! Zeb seems to be claiming that there have been folks getting on planes with explosive or fake explosives on their bodies after going through a TSA check since the TSA checks started. Is this true? I haven't heard of any. And, if not, that's not a valid point.

And Katyusha has already posted the valid response to this. The very first time a terrorist gets lucky and blows a plane up after going through any kind of security check, the yammers are going to be out in force about lax security.

This is a no win situation, so my feeling (having been on the firing line in the Middle East for quite a few years) is to not play to the lowest-common-denominator fear factor on this. Be free and act free and live with the occasional isolated mishap.

I'd put more of the effort into screening passengers at ticketing and making sure it's the ticketed passenger who arrives at the gate, yes, using intelligently applied profiling. We have "watch" and "no fly" lists and don't put the effort into applying them, for instance.

Overall, I'd rather live freer, take my chances, and spend my terrorist tracking money at snuffing them out a long distance from my home shores.

And, actually, with the represented crazy reactionaries I see posts from on this forum, I'm more concerned about domestic crazies than foreign terrorists.

You're 100% right SR but selling that concept to certain types of political intellectual is a lost cause and you know it.

 

[amicus]

Well, there are three issues here that are the problem, all having to do with the machine (the failure of which is what's leading to the pat-down issue). In theory, the machine should be a winner (to a point) because you just walk through, a stranger sees you nekkid, but that stranger sees thousands nekkid and, presumably, could care less (plot bunny anyone?), and isn't going to remember you anyway. Your image vanishes, end of story.

But, as we know from the news, the machine people lied. First problem is that the images DO get kept (and how the fuck did that happen? I can barely keep my computer from erasing things that I don't want erased, why couldn't they get theirs to erase what they wanted erased?). And said images got leaked. Next, there's some folk wondering if the x-raying might be dangerous, especially frequent flyers. If you're flying several times a week, can this machine cause you health trouble? And last, there's a question if they're using the machines because the man who makes them and profits form their sales was part of making the decision to use them...little conflict of interest there.

I'm in agreement with Katyusha that TSA is between a rock and a hard place. Everyone is screaming about the searches, but if they aren't done and something goes wrong, TSA will be blamed. TSA is trying to cover their asses. And I'm equally in agreement with Sr7 that what we really should be doing is trying to teach Americans to stop living in Never-Neverland. To grow up and realize that we can't always prevent anything bad from ever happening to us.

We just can't get past that loss of "innocence" (call it stupidity) that made us think we were so superior to backwater, infidel bad guys that we'd be able to stop them in a heartbeat before they ever did anything bad to us--and do it with one maverick Bruce Willis or Will Smith American. We can't deal with the fact that they succeeded, big time. We've been scrambling and trying to regain that feeling of control, security and power for almost ten years now.

And now...now we're losing it at those who've been trying to give us what we demanded and insisted we wanted. Because they gave us all this instead of a maverick kicking butt. I think the scans (released on the internet) and pat downs are the final straw. We're suddenly realizing that all this is making us feel more out of power, control and inferior, not back in control and power. So now we're rebelling against TSA on all levels as a warped way of regaining that feeling. Our whole country should be in therapy.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Although I quoted the entire Post, it is the Bolded portion I wish to respond to.

There were those in the 1930's who advocated tolerance, negotiation and appeasement for the German National Socialists...six million Jewish and twenty million other innocent human lives was the price paid. The Union of Soviet Socialists Republic purged millions under Stalin, enslaved millions more in Eastern Europe and supplied the weapons for the agression of Communist North Korea and Communist North Vietnam. Yet to this day there are apologists for Socialism in whatever ugly form it arises.

Americans have never lived in: " Never-Neverland.", we fought a Revolution for our Freedom and suffered the Brit's burning our Capitol in 1812. We fought the Spanish in Cuba and Mexico and even went to the aid of our western allies in the war to end all wars.

3113 expressed a churlish glee in describing America coming down to the level of the barbarian world outside, but I suggest that celebration is somewhat premature.

America did not seek war with either Germany or Japan, nor did we knowingly invite the USSR to enslave half of the world. It is our openness and our generousity and the very concept of human freedom and democracy that 3113 attacks, and without due cause.

I make no apologies for America being the greatest power in the world and the nation that has influenced human history in an humane manner, more than any nation preceding it.

It was the appeasement nature of the Clinton administration that led to the Embassy bombings and the USS Cole attack, all by Islamic Terrorists, and eventually the laxity of security and the weak foreign policy that led to 9/11.

We now have another, weak, Democratic administration, one attempting to ameliorate the Evil in the world by negotiations and appeasement, accepting and tolerating the Evil of an Islamic world view of Jihadism, in hopes of not having to confront the barbarians.

There is a scene is "Deep Impact", if memory serves, where-in Tia Leoni, playing the part of a Journalist, attempting to bargain with the 'black' American President, played by Morgan Freeman, as I recall....the essence of the scene is contained in his reply, "It only seems you have an advantage; you really don't" I paraphrase from memory.

To all the pussified pacifists who perceive America as a quivering hulk of frightened people, being forced by their government to sacrifice some freedoms in exchange for security in flying...it only seems that way.

America could swat the entire Muslim world as one would an annoying mosquito and truly, bomb them back to before the dark ages. Cut off from the petro dollars supporting terrorism from Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, the Arab terrorists would shrivel up and die on the vine.

I refer to the words of Winston Churchill, if memory serves...."There will always be an England" There will always be an America, the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

You left out Carter and the Iranians. The Usual Suspects have never met a wooly-bully they didnt want to suck-off; theyre America's prison bitch sub-culture.

 

[amicus]

AMICUS

You left out Carter and the Iranians. The Usual Suspects have never met a wooly-bully they didnt want to suck-off; theyre America's prison bitch sub-culture.

~~~~

Thank you for the reminder, slim Jim...and trusting memory, I could search, was it over 30 hostages held for over 400 days until Ronnie Raygun was elected and the Iranians wet their pants and released the prisoners...oh, wait, the Araabs don't wear pants...just dribbled down their legs under their dresses?



ami

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

~~~~

Thank you for the reminder, slim Jim...and trusting memory, I could search, was it over 30 hostages held for over 400 days until Ronnie Raygun was elected and the Iranians wet their pants and released the prisoners...oh, wait, the Araabs don't wear pants...just dribbled down their legs under their dresses?



ami

There were plenty of hostages. And all Carter did was step on his dick and limp back to the bench to wait for Ron to suit-up.

Obama has the really crazy idea that we can win the game if he plays for the other teams.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

No, I don't watch a whole lot of TV. Where I was most of my life--out in the foreign environment mostly protecting the homeland from there, they didn't have a whole lot of TV to watch.

And, sorry, I've never switched to MSNBC in my life.

Guess again. I'd sure like to live up to your assumptions, yes I would.

So, were you thinking of documenting your assertion or just zipping on through that?

Well that explains a lot.

As for documenting...I'm putting on my liberal hat here. If I say it as a liberal intellectual it's the truth and it doesn't need documenting.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well that explains a lot.

As for documenting...I'm putting on my liberal hat here. If I say it as a liberal intellectual it's the truth and it doesn't need documenting.

Nope-- the correct line is;

As a liberal intellectual, here's the documentation, but you rightwingnuts won't be able to understand it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Nope-- the correct line is;

As a liberal intellectual, here's the documentation, but you rightwingnuts won't be able to understand it.

Unfortunately that's not always the case. There are people on this board...and I hate to tell you their political leanings...who spout bullshit about things without backing up their claims. Not all of them...one that does come to mind is...no I'm not going to do it.

Let's just say not every liberal here provides backup documentation to the crap they spout. So if someone doesn't believe what I say...let them do the research, I already have or I wouldn't say what I said, either by first hand knowledge or first person observation. I either saw it on a news program or I saw it happen. Yes, I know Glen Beck is not a new program, but I don't watch him or Hanity or Rush or any of those wingnutz. Now do I watch left leaning wingnutz.

 

[Katyusha]

You don't watch much TV do you? Especially news programs...to busy listing to all the yammering on MSNBC huh?

I've been watching reporters stalk all over the airport here trying their damnedest to dig up passengers who are pissed off about the new procedures. Watching them get more and more frustrated because they couldn't easily find such people to make their report seem thorough doesn't do much to bolster my faith in the press' desire to present this story in a fair and balanced manner.

 

[SlickTony]

Since 9/11 all the terrorist attempts have originated outside the U.S. And all the terrorists who have attempted to do something on board a plane have been mugged and tied up, not by Sky Marshals or TSA, but by the other passengers, mostly Americans. 9/11 was a fluke. They pulled it off because it was novel. Up until then hijackings had all been done to take the plane somewhere the perp wanted to go. No one expected that these jihadi fools would deliberately crash an airliner into a building. Now we know. Now we defend ourselves. Now we counterattack.

Yes, trying to get away with anything on a plane came to an end as soon as the passengers realized that they had nothing to lose if they let the terrorists get away with it. TSA, and the gubmint, like to say point out that there hasn't been a successful terrorist attack on an airplane since. This is not due to pat-downs or not letting moms carry their kids' sippy cups on board. It's because the terrorists have realized that at the least sign of trouble the passengers will whale on them.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I've been watching reporters stalk all over the airport here trying their damnedest to dig up passengers who are pissed off about the new procedures. Watching them get more and more frustrated because they couldn't easily find such people to make their report seem thorough doesn't do much to bolster my faith in the press' desire to present this story in a fair and balanced manner.

And there in lies the problem...the news orgs can only talk to the people before they get groped, so there is no one complaining before they go through the first checkpoint, past which non-ticket holders aren't allowed.

As for passengers get off a plane...well usually they are in a hurry to get to wherever it is they are going to be bothered to talk to reporters.

 

[sr71plt]

And there in lies the problem...the news orgs can only talk to the people before they get groped, so there is no one complaining before they go through the first checkpoint, past which non-ticket holders aren't allowed.

Don't disagreed with what is being said about the media's role; just pointing out a typical sweeping assumption.

Reporters can buy a cheap ticket to someplace and go through the process and report it from the other end. And I assume that they do, as it's the clever approach to the issue.

What actual knowledge is your sweeping assumption that they can't/don't based on?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Soon crazoids and Usual Suspects will infect airports with their naked bodies morphing it all into a chinese fire-drill.

 

[JackLuis]

ABC producer says TSA agent felt inside her underwear

http://americansfortruth.com/uploads/2010/11/TSA_Pat_down.jpg

One employee of ABC News who opted for the pat-down instead of the full body scan claimed that a TSA agent actually felt inside of her underwear.

"The woman who checked me reached her hands inside my underwear and felt her way around," said ABC News producer Carolyn Durand. "It was basically worse than going to the gynecologist."

There sr71plt, a news persons view of the proceedures.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Don't disagreed with what is being said about the media's role; just pointing out a typical sweeping assumption.

Reporters can buy a cheap ticket to someplace and go through the process and report it from the other end. And I assume that they do, as it's the clever approach to the issue.

What actual knowledge is your sweeping assumption that they can't/don't based on?

And your assumption that they are that smart is based on...what?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Analyst: TSA methods 'will kill more Americans on highway'
By Jordy Yager - 11/21/10 09:09 AM ET

The recent public ire toward the TSA’s new pat-down and body imaging screening methods is likely to cause more people to drive automobiles and forego airline travel, say two transportation economists who have studied the issue.

As the nation readies for one of the busiest traveling holidays, Steven Horwitz, a professor of economics at St. Lawrence University, told The Hill that the probable spike in road travel, caused by adverse feelings towards the Transportation Security Administration’s (TSA) new screening procedures, could also lead to more car-related deaths.

...

 

[3113]

Getting back on target (namely Erotica)...looks like Saturday Night Live got there before us

 

[sr71plt]

And your assumption that they are that smart is based on...what?

Irrelevant post. You're the one who claimed they couldn't do that. I don't have to prove a negative on that.

And of course the media is smart enough to do that. You can't have it both ways, Zeb. Accuse them of being diabolically clever and then deny that out of the other side of your mouth.

You're just the typical reactionary, recutting everything to serve your hatred-based world view.

P.S: I see that JackL answered your question--with graphic evidence--an hour before you asked me this question. Perhaps it isn't the media you should be looking at as not too smart.